Choice of firm

[annemie.heubach]

Hi everyone, I hope everyone is doing well.

I am currently applying for vacation schemes in Summer 2022, and am finding myself a bit conflicted with regards to what firms to apply to. I know that I want to go into litigation in the future, as I took some experience in this department in a Law firm in Namibia and I loved it. Nevertheless, I am torn for what firms to apply for as I have not had corporate law at university (so I am not sure if I will enjoy it or not), and what I have enjoyed at university, even though this might be different in practice rangers very widely from criminal law and administrative law to European law, contract law and torts. I know I do not want to work within finance (but again this might differ in practice).

I have been looking at firms like Mishcon de Reya and Kingsley Napely as they offer their services to private clients AND corporations (which I really liked about my internship), however I am also intending to apply to corporate firms. Is there any advice you could give me? and are there any firms you know of whose practices range very widely so that it would be possible to also for instance do non contractual liability litigation alongside corporate litigation etc?

My current approach is to apply some litigation only firms, but also to some corporate firms as well as due to the many departments I would get a wide range of experience in my training contract. However, I am still torn as currently I seem to have too many firms on my list to apply to and am struggling to cut them down.

Thank you and Kind regards

 

[George Maxwell]

Hi @annemie.heubach,

Thank you for sharing the details of your journey up to this point. You sound like you have had some fantastic experience. It is great to hear too that you are pursuing training contract applications with such an informed approach.

I have a few thoughts, although unfortunately they do not answer every aspect of your post:

1. Although I cannot speak for the firms you mention directly, it sounds like you are approaching this in the right way. My advice would be to reach out to some lawyers currently at these firms. Find out about their experiences and which other firms they considered during their application journey (and why they chose those firms!). This can be invaluable in my experience. It can give you a more granular understanding of what that firm's practice is actually like in a more digestible way than through online resources.

2. That being said, with regards to firm research, I found looking at the Chambers and Partners ranking for particular practice areas, looking at each firm on the list and reading about the nature of their practice was really helpful. If you have not tried this already, I would really advise taking a look. The Legal 500 can be useful for gaining a good idea of the types of clients firms advise.

3. Finally, I thought I should pass on a piece of advice that I have been given a number of times (during vacation schemes, interviews and informal chats). I have been warned to remain open-minded about practice areas prior to qualifying (at both application and trainee stage). Basing one's ideas on a short period of work experience can be misleading and/or misrepresentative of what the actual experience of working in that area is like (in my case, sitting in different areas during my vacation schemes). It can be indicative of your interest too, of course! However, at HSF, for example, I spoke to a number of people who chose the firm because of its market-leading reputation in disputes, but subsequently qualified into a non-contentious practice area (such as corporate).

This may not apply to you(!). However, I was explicitly told not to shut off the possibility of working in particular areas before I had actually tried them. I was warned that if I did not do this it would limit my potential development (i.e., my knowledge of how that practice area functions as well as developing transferrable skills for practice elsewhere). It was also because as a trainee, it is important to give a good impression to your supervisors throughout your training contract.

It does not sound like you have done this as you are considering firms with a variety of practice area strengths, but I found this really useful advice. Please do ignore this though if you are aware of this already .

Do reach out if you would like any further guidance. Always here to help 😇

 

[AvniD]

Hi @annemie.heubach! It seems like you're very clear on what you like and have backed it up with work experience, which is very impressive 👏👏

Cutting down on firms can be really difficult but a useful starting point is to prioritise those firms that you've interacted with, either at graduate recruitment events or independently. This is because your application will be so much more impactful if you can demonstrate that you've made the effort to get to know the firm before applying. If you've not interacted with any firms, then look out for webinars, online events and Open Days and apply to them swiftly. Alternatively, you could reach out to lawyers at the firms you're interested in independently as @George Maxwell suggested in his brilliantly expressed advice above.

If you still find that your list is too long, then look into the nitty gritty of the structure of the training contract at each firm. For example- do you want your training contract to have 4 or 6 seats? Do you want opportunities for international and/or client secondments? What's the retention rate been over the past few years? What kind of support is available during the training contract? Looking into these details can help personalise your list and reduce your choices to only those firms who you like for the quality of their work and the structure of their training.

Additionally, if you are an international student, then do consider including visa sponsorship and minimum salary requirements when choosing which firms to include in your list. I can go into how to go about doing this in further detail if you are indeed an international student and would like more advice on this. Please ignore if this does not apply to you!

 

[annemie.heubach]

Hi @annemie.heubach! It seems like you're very clear on what you like and have backed it up with work experience, which is very impressive 👏👏

Cutting down on firms can be really difficult but a useful starting point is to prioritise those firms that you've interacted with, either at graduate recruitment events or independently. This is because your application will be so much more impactful if you can demonstrate that you've made the effort to get to know the firm before applying. If you've not interacted with any firms, then look out for webinars, online events and Open Days and apply to them swiftly. Alternatively, you could reach out to lawyers at the firms you're interested in independently as @George Maxwell suggested in his brilliantly expressed advice above.

If you still find that your list is too long, then look into the nitty gritty of the structure of the training contract at each firm. For example- do you want your training contract to have 4 or 6 seats? Do you want opportunities for international and/or client secondments? What's the retention rate been over the past few years? What kind of support is available during the training contract? Looking into these details can help personalise your list and reduce your choices to only those firms who you like for the quality of their work and the structure of their training.

Additionally, if you are an international student, then do consider including visa sponsorship and minimum salary requirements when choosing which firms to include in your list. I can go into how to go about doing this in further detail if you are indeed an international student and would like more advice on this. Please ignore if this does not apply to you!

Hi, thanks for your reply! I am studying a dual law degree with IE University (comparative law) and the University of Law (English Law). I am in my third year, my first three years of the degree are in Spain, so yes I am an international student, and my fourth year I will be doing the LPC (or SQE) in London at the University of Law. So after my four years I will have the two LLB's and the LPC/SQE. I am actually struggling with visa sponsorship as I talked to Latham & Watkings at a law fair and they mentioned to me they do not sponsor visas for vacation schemes and most firms are the same in this respect. As I will need a student visa next academic year for my year in London, I asked the University of Law how early I can get this visa as you are allowed to do certain work experience under it, however they mentioned it would only start a month before my studies would start. So I am not sure if I will be able to get any vacation schemes. Do you by any chance know if there is any way to do an internship as an international student (I am originally from Germany).
Again, thank you for your advice I will certainly take this to heart and have a look at some open days.

 

[annemie.heubach]

Hi @annemie.heubach,

Thank you for sharing the details of your journey up to this point. You sound like you have had some fantastic experience. It is great to hear too that you are pursuing training contract applications with such an informed approach.

I have a few thoughts, although unfortunately they do not answer every aspect of your post:

1. Although I cannot speak for the firms you mention directly, it sounds like you are approaching this in the right way. My advice would be to reach out to some lawyers currently at these firms. Find out about their experiences and which other firms they considered during their application journey (and why they chose those firms!). This can be invaluable in my experience. It can give you a more granular understanding of what that firm's practice is actually like in a more digestible way than through online resources.

2. That being said, with regards to firm research, I found looking at the Chambers and Partners ranking for particular practice areas, looking at each firm on the list and reading about the nature of their practice was really helpful. If you have not tried this already, I would really advise taking a look. The Legal 500 can be useful for gaining a good idea of the types of clients firms advise.

3. Finally, I thought I should pass on a piece of advice that I have been given a number of times (during vacation schemes, interviews and informal chats). I have been warned to remain open-minded about practice areas prior to qualifying (at both application and trainee stage). Basing one's ideas on a short period of work experience can be misleading and/or misrepresentative of what the actual experience of working in that area is like (in my case, sitting in different areas during my vacation schemes). It can be indicative of your interest too, of course! However, at HSF, for example, I spoke to a number of people who chose the firm because of its market-leading reputation in disputes, but subsequently qualified into a non-contentious practice area (such as corporate).

This may not apply to you(!). However, I was explicitly told not to shut off the possibility of working in particular areas before I had actually tried them. I was warned that if I did not do this it would limit my potential development (i.e., my knowledge of how that practice area functions as well as developing transferrable skills for practice elsewhere). It was also because as a trainee, it is important to give a good impression to your supervisors throughout your training contract.

It does not sound like you have done this as you are considering firms with a variety of practice area strengths, but I found this really useful advice. Please do ignore this though if you are aware of this already .

Do reach out if you would like any further guidance. Always here to help 😇

Hi George, thank you so much for that reply. Would you recommend contacting lawyers over linkedin to ask them questions? or rather e-mail? I will for sure not limit myself, and am open to trying everything that is offered , so I will keep on applying to different types of firms with various strengths!

 

[AvniD]

@annemie.heubach please see my reply to your question about visas in this thread-

Hi! I seem to remember from one of Jessica's recent posts that firms are generally not willing to sponsor visas for vacation schemes as the cost is between 3-5k GBP, which is difficult to justify for a 2-4 week scheme. @Jessica Booker can you please confirm if I have got this right?

@annemie.heubach I would recommend you to contact every firm on your shortlist and confirm whether they are willing to sponsor visas. Should you not find any firm willing to sponsor visas for vacation schemes, then please do consider applying through the direct training contract route as well.

I was an international applicant and secured my training contract through the direct route so please do feel free to ask any questions that you may have about my experience and I will try my best to support you!

As I've stated above, please do look into the direct training contract route if you're unable to find any firm in your shortlist that are willing to sponsor your visa for the vacation scheme.

In my experience, internships in corporate areas like M&A, private equity, venture capital etc. translate well across to the UK too, so don't feel pressured to secure an internship only in the UK. If you're able to find a firm in the areas I've mentioned above in Germany or Spain, or wherever you are currently based, then the skills and knowledge you gain will most likely be transferable.

Coupled with making sincere efforts to network with firms through graduate recruitment events and Open Days, there is no reason why you cannot make strong applications with your international credentials.

Please feel free to ask me any questions you may have about how I utilised my international internships in my direct training contract applications and I will try my best to support you

 

[George Maxwell]

Hi George, thank you so much for that reply. Would you recommend contacting lawyers over linkedin to ask them questions? or rather e-mail? I will for sure not limit myself, and am open to trying everything that is offered , so I will keep on applying to different types of firms with various strengths!

Hi @annemie.heubach,

This is a good question. I would recommend LinkedIn. Of course, there is no guarantee that you will get a reply. However, you can maximise your chances by demonstrating a keen interest (in both them and the firm), being polite and ultimately getting your tone right. Do not take it personally too if you do not get a reply!

I am glad to hear that you are not limiting yourself in the types of firm you are applying to.

Please do reach out if I can help any further. I look forward to hearing more about your journey soon 🚀