Deciding Between Offers - Macfarlanes and Mishcon de Reya

joannalonergan

Active Member
Apr 19, 2021
10
11
Hi everyone,

I appreciate this is an enviable position to be in, but I received offers from both my dream firms - Mishcon de Reya and Macfarlanes - and I'm really struggling to decide.

I have until Thursday (27th May) to let Mishcon de Reya know my decision, but I feel really stuck. They're both incredible firms and I don't think I can go wrong with either - but that's part of the problem.

Some background info:
I did VSs at both, but the Macfarlanes one was two weeks and the MdR just two days. Obviously, I got much more insight into the culture and work of Macfarlanes than MdR via their schemes. I loved the people at Macfarlanes, the general vibe and the work I heard about/did was interesting, but I am very drawn to MdR's work, especially their Art Law and Private Client seats.

I know Macfarlanes is better pay, but I'm trying not to let that come into things - I'm lucky enough to afford the choice, so I want to go somewhere I'll get solid training and really enjoy what I do. However, I am also aware that Macfarlanes' retention rate is higher and they have a reputation for outstanding training (I'm not too sure about MdR's rep on this one).

Basically, if anyone had any insight they could share, or any general views on/perceptions of each firm, I'd really appreciate it. I feel like I've read and watched everything I can, but I still can't seem to make up my mind!
 

Jessica Booker

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What does you gut instinct say at this stage?

Could you ask MdR for more time to consider the offer and ask them whether you can engage with more of their lawyers ahead of making the decision if it’s a case you don’t feel you know them as well?

Could you find lawyers on LinkedIn who have worked for both firms, contact them and get their opinion?
 
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HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh

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Hi everyone,

I appreciate this is an enviable position to be in, but I received offers from both my dream firms - Mishcon de Reya and Macfarlanes - and I'm really struggling to decide.

I have until Thursday (27th May) to let Mishcon de Reya know my decision, but I feel really stuck. They're both incredible firms and I don't think I can go wrong with either - but that's part of the problem.

Some background info:
I did VSs at both, but the Macfarlanes one was two weeks and the MdR just two days. Obviously, I got much more insight into the culture and work of Macfarlanes than MdR via their schemes. I loved the people at Macfarlanes, the general vibe and the work I heard about/did was interesting, but I am very drawn to MdR's work, especially their Art Law and Private Client seats.

I know Macfarlanes is better pay, but I'm trying not to let that come into things - I'm lucky enough to afford the choice, so I want to go somewhere I'll get solid training and really enjoy what I do. However, I am also aware that Macfarlanes' retention rate is higher and they have a reputation for outstanding training (I'm not too sure about MdR's rep on this one).

Basically, if anyone had any insight they could share, or any general views on/perceptions of each firm, I'd really appreciate it. I feel like I've read and watched everything I can, but I still can't seem to make up my mind!
Congrats!!!

When I was trying to make up my mind with another firm, they organised calls with partners and people from different departments so I could ask as many questions around progression, projects, etc. They might do the same, it might help you decide?
 

Alice G

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Hi everyone,

I appreciate this is an enviable position to be in, but I received offers from both my dream firms - Mishcon de Reya and Macfarlanes - and I'm really struggling to decide.

I have until Thursday (27th May) to let Mishcon de Reya know my decision, but I feel really stuck. They're both incredible firms and I don't think I can go wrong with either - but that's part of the problem.

Some background info:
I did VSs at both, but the Macfarlanes one was two weeks and the MdR just two days. Obviously, I got much more insight into the culture and work of Macfarlanes than MdR via their schemes. I loved the people at Macfarlanes, the general vibe and the work I heard about/did was interesting, but I am very drawn to MdR's work, especially their Art Law and Private Client seats.

I know Macfarlanes is better pay, but I'm trying not to let that come into things - I'm lucky enough to afford the choice, so I want to go somewhere I'll get solid training and really enjoy what I do. However, I am also aware that Macfarlanes' retention rate is higher and they have a reputation for outstanding training (I'm not too sure about MdR's rep on this one).

Basically, if anyone had any insight they could share, or any general views on/perceptions of each firm, I'd really appreciate it. I feel like I've read and watched everything I can, but I still can't seem to make up my mind!
Excellent advice above from @HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh - this is exactly what I would suggest too. Did you have trainee buddies at each firm who you might also be able to contact? They might be able to give you even further insight into the training and I am sure they will answer any further questions you may have as I imagine you might have more direct/pressing questions now you are faced with the choice.

Congratulations and I am sure you will make the best decision for you.
 
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Dheepa

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  • Jan 20, 2019
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    Hello! Congratulations on both your TC offers - difficult position to be in to have to decide but also love all this success you're having!

    I don't know much about either firm but some of my initial thoughts based on your post are:
    1. Culture/people - This is always a bit of a difficult one because theres no guarantee that the people you met on your VS (associates/trainees/partners) will be there once you start working and different teams often have different cultures even within the same law firm. Also, with any organisation your working in, you will always come across people you don't like. I would try not to put too much emphasis on this.
    2. The work - I think this should be the main deciding factor. If you are drawn to MdR's work more then that's a really strong case to choose them, especially since it's not the kind of work you'd be exposed to at Macfarlanes.
    Echoing what everyone else has said, you should absolutely reach out to people at MdR. As someone who was in a similar position about a year ago, the one thing I'd say is, try your best to ignore what other people say. Sure, get their opinion and of course speak to some lawyers for more information that will help your decision, but the choice you make should really come down to what you want to do regardless of what other people think you should do - because that's the only way you won't have regrets and you won't keep wondering "what if" after you've signed the offer.
     
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    joannalonergan

    Active Member
    Apr 19, 2021
    10
    11
    What does you gut instinct say at this stage?

    Could you ask MdR for more time to consider the offer and ask them whether you can engage with more of their lawyers ahead of making the decision if it’s a case you don’t feel you know them as well?

    Could you find lawyers on LinkedIn who have worked for both firms, contact them and get their opinion?
    Hi Jessica,

    This is really useful advice - thank you. I've just emailed Grad Rec to ask for more time and to ask if I might speak to some more people from the firm. I guess I was reluctant to do this before because I was afraid of seeming as though I wasn't as committed, but hopefully they'll appreciate the situation!

    Thanks again!
     

    joannalonergan

    Active Member
    Apr 19, 2021
    10
    11
    Congrats!!!

    When I was trying to make up my mind with another firm, they organised calls with partners and people from different departments so I could ask as many questions around progression, projects, etc. They might do the same, it might help you decide?
    I've sent them an email to ask! This is a really good shout, especially the stuff about progression because retention etc is a little lower at MdR than Macs, and I know they've had historic 'scandals' about promotion.

    I feel a bit of a bother to them ngl, but here's to hoping they want me enough to put up with it!
     

    joannalonergan

    Active Member
    Apr 19, 2021
    10
    11
    Excellent advice above from @HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh - this is exactly what I would suggest too. Did you have trainee buddies at each firm who you might also be able to contact? They might be able to give you even further insight into the training and I am sure they will answer any further questions you may have as I imagine you might have more direct/pressing questions now you are faced with the choice.

    Congratulations and I am sure you will make the best decision for you.
    So at Macfarlanes I did, but not at MdR. I feel like I've got more than enough info about Macfarlanes, and it's a really great firm. I know I can't go wrong with either, and I've probably overthought the decision at this point, but I want to make sure I end up doing what I really want to do!

    I've emailed MdR, so hopefully I can take up @HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh excellent advice!
     

    joannalonergan

    Active Member
    Apr 19, 2021
    10
    11
    Hello! Congratulations on both your TC offers - difficult position to be in to have to decide but also love all this success you're having!

    I don't know much about either firm but some of my initial thoughts based on your post are:
    1. Culture/people - This is always a bit of a difficult one because theres no guarantee that the people you met on your VS (associates/trainees/partners) will be there once you start working and different teams often have different cultures even within the same law firm. Also, with any organisation your working in, you will always come across people you don't like. I would try not to put too much emphasis on this.
    2. The work - I think this should be the main deciding factor. If you are drawn to MdR's work more then that's a really strong case to choose them, especially since it's not the kind of work you'd be exposed to at Macfarlanes.
    Echoing what everyone else has said, you should absolutely reach out to people at MdR. As someone who was in a similar position about a year ago, the one thing I'd say is, try your best to ignore what other people say. Sure, get their opinion and of course speak to some lawyers for more information that will help your decision, but the choice you make should really come down to what you want to do regardless of what other people think you should do - because that's the only way you won't have regrets and you won't keep wondering "what if" after you've signed the offer.
    Thank you!

    That's a really good point re people - it's hard to gauge the vibe on a carefully curated scheme too. Also really nice to hear someone say 'ignore other people', because it feels like everyone has an opinion and I'm scared to let people down (mainly my parents who are very behind the idea of Macfarlanes).

    I think whichever way I choose it will be my decision, which is the most important thing. Plus, once I've decided that'll be it - I'll be in! I think 'what if' is inevitable, but I know I'll be happy with whatever I decide, so long as I have decided it!

    Thanks again :)
     

    Jessica Booker

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    Hi Jessica,

    This is really useful advice - thank you. I've just emailed Grad Rec to ask for more time and to ask if I might speak to some more people from the firm. I guess I was reluctant to do this before because I was afraid of seeming as though I wasn't as committed, but hopefully they'll appreciate the situation!

    Thanks again!
    Most firms will be willing to at least engage with this as an idea. They want to make sure you make the right decision. The last thing they want is an unhappy trainee who thinks they made the wrong decision, but they obviously also want to hire you at the same time. I would expect most firms to be supportive of you trying to make an informed and reasoned decision rather than a snap one.
     
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    LegalLily

    Star Member
    Feb 19, 2021
    39
    114
    Hi everyone,

    I appreciate this is an enviable position to be in, but I received offers from both my dream firms - Mishcon de Reya and Macfarlanes - and I'm really struggling to decide.

    I have until Thursday (27th May) to let Mishcon de Reya know my decision, but I feel really stuck. They're both incredible firms and I don't think I can go wrong with either - but that's part of the problem.

    Some background info:
    I did VSs at both, but the Macfarlanes one was two weeks and the MdR just two days. Obviously, I got much more insight into the culture and work of Macfarlanes than MdR via their schemes. I loved the people at Macfarlanes, the general vibe and the work I heard about/did was interesting, but I am very drawn to MdR's work, especially their Art Law and Private Client seats.

    I know Macfarlanes is better pay, but I'm trying not to let that come into things - I'm lucky enough to afford the choice, so I want to go somewhere I'll get solid training and really enjoy what I do. However, I am also aware that Macfarlanes' retention rate is higher and they have a reputation for outstanding training (I'm not too sure about MdR's rep on this one).

    Basically, if anyone had any insight they could share, or any general views on/perceptions of each firm, I'd really appreciate it. I feel like I've read and watched everything I can, but I still can't seem to make up my mind!
    Oh I feel for you, I was deciding between firms and its so tough!

    Not sure if this helps, but I know you mentioned private client was a factor for you. I just did a quick google on Chambers and looks like Macs is Band 1 rated compared to MdR which is Band 2. Macs also is said to have a very international private client base which may be of interest to you. From my own knowledge I know Macs has a really incredible tax team which is literally what 70% of private client is all about, which may also play a factor for you.
     

    Alice G

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    So at Macfarlanes I did, but not at MdR. I feel like I've got more than enough info about Macfarlanes, and it's a really great firm. I know I can't go wrong with either, and I've probably overthought the decision at this point, but I want to make sure I end up doing what I really want to do!

    I've emailed MdR, so hopefully I can take up @HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh excellent advice!
    You absolutely can’t overthink a decision like this truthfully so I think you’re doing all the best things! Excellent- we are always here to walk through any pros and cons etc with you too if you manage to get some more info on MdR. If you’d prefer to weigh this up privately and sound things out, given the personal nature of this decision, my DMs are open!
     

    joannalonergan

    Active Member
    Apr 19, 2021
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    11
    Oh I feel for you, I was deciding between firms and its so tough!

    Not sure if this helps, but I know you mentioned private client was a factor for you. I just did a quick google on Chambers and looks like Macs is Band 1 rated compared to MdR which is Band 2. Macs also is said to have a very international private client base which may be of interest to you. From my own knowledge I know Macs has a really incredible tax team which is literally what 70% of private client is all about, which may also play a factor for you.
    Hi Lily,

    I'm definitely not all that interested in tax and I meant private client more as opposed to the classic corporate M&A kind of stuff. That being said, I'm very open to new areas of law and this is useful to know. Macs is a really great firm, and I think I would be turning down an amazing opportunity if I decided against it - part of the predicament!

    What made the decision for you in the end? And do you ever have the 'what if' thoughts...

    Thanks for this!
     

    Dheepa

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  • Jan 20, 2019
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    Thank you!

    That's a really good point re people - it's hard to gauge the vibe on a carefully curated scheme too. Also really nice to hear someone say 'ignore other people', because it feels like everyone has an opinion and I'm scared to let people down (mainly my parents who are very behind the idea of Macfarlanes).

    I think whichever way I choose it will be my decision, which is the most important thing. Plus, once I've decided that'll be it - I'll be in! I think 'what if' is inevitable, but I know I'll be happy with whatever I decide, so long as I have decided it!

    Thanks again :)
    I definitely agree about the "what if" moments being inevitable. I went for the firm that not a lot of people would have chosen in my position (I think), but I did stick to what I wanted for myself and my training contract - which I have no regrets about. I do think that no matter what I chose I would still have "what if" moments because of how torn up I was between the two. A senior associate I spoke to when deciding between the firms told me about how she had those "what if" moments about where she chose to do her TC for years after qualifying! This hasn't been the most helpful post, but, whatever you choose, you will not be alone in continuing to question it long after haha. :)
     

    LegalLily

    Star Member
    Feb 19, 2021
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    Hi Lily,

    I'm definitely not all that interested in tax and I meant private client more as opposed to the classic corporate M&A kind of stuff. That being said, I'm very open to new areas of law and this is useful to know. Macs is a really great firm, and I think I would be turning down an amazing opportunity if I decided against it - part of the predicament!

    What made the decision for you in the end? And do you ever have the 'what if' thoughts...

    Thanks for this!
    Honestly what ended up swaying it for me was training quality, wide practices strengths and better reputation overall/which one would look better on my CV. One firm I had an offer from was a US firm with a learn as you go, informal training system (which I don't think would make me the best technical lawyer) and they were only ranked for a few of their practices.

    I think your mindset about NQ salary is right. For me it just wasn't the biggest factor as the different was negligible post tax, plus theres no guarantee I would be retained nor is there any guarantee I would even want to stay. And no tbh I havent had any 'what ifs'. I think that's mainly because I personally know a lot junior lawyers and witness how easy it is for them to jump around firm to firm now they are qualified. So I feel even if I do regret my decision, I recognised its fairly easy to move on as a NQ

    Good luck with your decision, both firms are amazing!
     
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    joannalonergan

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    Apr 19, 2021
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    I definitely agree about the "what if" moments being inevitable. I went for the firm that not a lot of people would have chosen in my position (I think), but I did stick to what I wanted for myself and my training contract - which I have no regrets about. I do think that no matter what I chose I would still have "what if" moments because of how torn up I was between the two. A senior associate I spoke to when deciding between the firms told me about how she had those "what if" moments about where she chose to do her TC for years after qualifying! This hasn't been the most helpful post, but, whatever you choose, you will not be alone in continuing to question it long after haha. :)
    I have so much respect for you, for doing what YOU thought best! It's harder than you'd think to resist the temptation to go for the 'obvious choice'. All the best and I'm sure you'll flourish wherever you are!
     
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    joannalonergan

    Active Member
    Apr 19, 2021
    10
    11
    Honestly what ended up swaying it for me was training quality, wide practices strengths and better reputation overall/which one would look better on my CV. One firm I had an offer from was a US firm with a learn as you go, informal training system (which I don't think would make me the best technical lawyer) and they were only ranked for a few of their practices.

    I think your mindset about NQ salary is right. For me it just wasn't the biggest factor as the different was negligible post tax, plus theres no guarantee I would be retained nor is there any guarantee I would even want to stay. And no tbh I havent had any 'what ifs'. I think that's mainly because I personally know a lot junior lawyers and witness how easy it is for them to jump around firm to firm now they are qualified. So I feel even if I do regret my decision, I recognised its fairly easy to move on as a NQ

    Good luck with your decision, both firms are amazing!
    Seems like you had your head right with your factors - if I went the same I think it would be Macs (better rep, amazing training etc). I managed to get more time from MdR, and have organised a couple of calls this afternoon to ask a few more Qs - I agree re the retained point, because if I'm going to choose MdR based off their art dept, I'd want some sense of how likely it is I'd be able to get a job after training!

    I doubt that makes much sense BUT, thank you so much (everyone) for the advice. I'll keep you updated on how it plays out!
     

    Alice G

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    Seems like you had your head right with your factors - if I went the same I think it would be Macs (better rep, amazing training etc). I managed to get more time from MdR, and have organised a couple of calls this afternoon to ask a few more Qs - I agree re the retained point, because if I'm going to choose MdR based off their art dept, I'd want some sense of how likely it is I'd be able to get a job after training!

    I doubt that makes much sense BUT, thank you so much (everyone) for the advice. I'll keep you updated on how it plays out!
    Good luck with your calls today! :) :)
     

    Dheepa

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    I have so much respect for you, for doing what YOU thought best! It's harder than you'd think to resist the temptation to go for the 'obvious choice'. All the best and I'm sure you'll flourish wherever you are!
    This is so kind of you to say haha - lowkey made my day! 💓 Thank you so much and wishing you all the best in deciding between the offers! Definitely let us know what you decide (if you're comfortable ofc)
     

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