(P)GDL Cold feet- was SQE right instead?

[lilikoi]

A recent graduate; failed my first VS round after graduating, but I'm in good spirits because I know the things I did wrong(hopefully all of them, but more realistically some) and hope I can turn this around. I have the A*AA, 2:1 from Russell uni, and extracurriculars, and will be plunging full time to app and start preparing for the next cycle super early.

I also applied to GDL(PGDL) at ULaw starting this Sept for three main reasons. First, I can end up with a degree, unlike SQE prep courses from BARBRI etc, and can use this for paralegal roles etc in the future. Second, GDL is expensive and I am so so hurt over parting with this much money due to botched VS apps but also it wouldn't bankrupt me. It's a lot of money but I'll live. Third, I went to a lot of open days/firm events last cycle to hear that some of the firms I'm interested in still plan on putting their non-law grads through the PGDL anyhow, and I was also attracted to the idea of learning law more before test-prepping for SQE(also genuinely interested in learning and learning law both).

But in researching my options I'm torn because of the cost(I have trauma I'm working on in therapy about spending any money more than 50 quid even if I can afford it) and whether I'm making a stupid decision. Some portray ULaw, BPP, and other providers as doing PGDL as a scheme to suck money out of naive internationals(I am an international student), and I've no plans to be a barrister yet as I'm set on the commercial route.

Tl;dr
My question is, will PGDL actually be worth anything? Compared to SQE, are there solid reasons to choose PGDL?
Like everyone else I'm counting on getting a TC offer and receiving support for SQE for next yr onwards if possible, and will pay back my parents for PGDL with reasonable interest rates. I know they can afford this without going broke, I just want to know if its a waste of money.

Thanks!!

 

[George Maxwell]

A recent graduate; failed my first VS round after graduating, but I'm in good spirits because I know the things I did wrong(hopefully all of them, but more realistically some) and hope I can turn this around. I have the A*AA, 2:1 from Russell uni, and extracurriculars, and will be plunging full time to app and start preparing for the next cycle super early.

I also applied to GDL(PGDL) at ULaw starting this Sept for three main reasons. First, I can end up with a degree, unlike SQE prep courses from BARBRI etc, and can use this for paralegal roles etc in the future. Second, GDL is expensive and I am so so hurt over parting with this much money due to botched VS apps but also it wouldn't bankrupt me. It's a lot of money but I'll live. Third, I went to a lot of open days/firm events last cycle to hear that some of the firms I'm interested in still plan on putting their non-law grads through the PGDL anyhow, and I was also attracted to the idea of learning law more before test-prepping for SQE(also genuinely interested in learning and learning law both).

But in researching my options I'm torn because of the cost(I have trauma I'm working on in therapy about spending any money more than 50 quid even if I can afford it) and whether I'm making a stupid decision. Some portray ULaw, BPP, and other providers as doing PGDL as a scheme to suck money out of naive internationals(I am an international student), and I've no plans to be a barrister yet as I'm set on the commercial route.

Tl;dr
My question is, will PGDL actually be worth anything? Compared to SQE, are there solid reasons to choose PGDL?
Like everyone else I'm counting on getting a TC offer and receiving support for SQE for next yr onwards if possible, and will pay back my parents for PGDL with reasonable interest rates. I know they can afford this without going broke, I just want to know if its a waste of money.

Thanks!!

Hey @lilikoi,

I think this is a tricky question. I know very little about the SQE, so do not feel qualified to advise you on this aspect of your question.

From my experience of the PGDL, I have enjoyed (parts) of it actually, although it is nothing like doing a normal undergraduate degree (in my experience anyway). I do feel like it provides a good point from which to launch one's legal career. It also forces you to write (somewhat) discursive essays (in contrast to the SQE which is entirely multiple-choice based).

@Jessica Booker I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. @James Carrabino any particular reflections on the PGDL so far too?

I would also suggest taking a look through the forum using the search bar if you can. There have been some great discussions re: choosing GDL or SQE!

Hope that helps 🙌

 

[Jessica Booker]

I'll come back to this more thoroughly later, but as an international student, one of the major advantages of the PGDL is that you are likely to get the right to work in the UK for two years after you graduate. The shorter SQE courses won't give you that where they are not a recognised qualification level - the GDL is a post graduate diploma, that means it has to meet a particular difficulty/standard/level of teaching. Many of the SQE courses do not have this level of qualification attached and therefore you cannot apply for a graduate visa after the course finishes.

 

[James Carrabino]

@lilikoi you have received some great advice from @George Maxwell and @Jessica Booker and I don't have much to add! My own experiences on the PGDL have told me that it's a box-ticking exercise which is useful in gaining a grounding in law but I am not sure about the other paths you are considering. Are you talking about simply taking the SQE exams on a prep course and gaining qualifying work experience? I think that many firms are asking their trainees to take the PGDL or an equivalent course anyway, so I am not sure that if you get a TC you will be able to get away with simply taking the SQE exams. I defer to @Jessica Booker on this.

Also, it is worth mentioning that the PGDL providers offer the option to take an additional research module to receive an LLM, and this enables your degree to qualify for student financing. This may be something worth looking into.

Please let me know if you have any other questions

 

[Jessica Booker]

@lilikoi you have received some great advice from @George Maxwell and @Jessica Booker and I don't have much to add! My own experiences on the PGDL have told me that it's a box-ticking exercise which is useful in gaining a grounding in law but I am not sure about the other paths you are considering. Are you talking about simply taking the SQE exams on a prep course and gaining qualifying work experience? I think that many firms are asking their trainees to take the PGDL or an equivalent course anyway, so I am not sure that if you get a TC you will be able to get away with simply taking the SQE exams. I defer to @Jessica Booker on this.

Also, it is worth mentioning that the PGDL providers offer the option to take an additional research module to receive an LLM, and this enables your degree to qualify for student financing. This may be something worth looking into.

Please let me know if you have any other questions

It will really depend on the individual firm's policy on SQE support. Technically there is nothing stopping someone just taking the exams of their own accord without doing a course at all (you could technically self-study for it). But where firms typically recruit trainees in advance, its just likely you will put you through a SQE prep course.

Will firms take on people who have passed the SQE but not done an SQE prep course? I suspect so!

 

[James Carrabino]

It will really depend on the individual firm's policy on SQE support. Technically there is nothing stopping someone just taking the exams of their own accord without doing a course at all (you could technically self-study for it). But where firms typically recruit trainees in advance, its just likely you will put you through a SQE prep course.

Will firm's take on people who have passed the SQE but not done an SQE prep course? I suspect so!

This is very useful @Jessica Booker! You don't think they will still want them to join the PGDL or another course afterwards to get to know the rest of the cohort and study the same tailored modules as everyone else?

 

[Jessica Booker]

This is very useful @Jessica Booker! You don't think they will still want them to join the PGDL or another course afterwards to get to know the rest of the cohort and study the same tailored modules as everyone else?

Highly unlikely in my opinion. Firms didn’t make people who self funded their LPC to take the LPC modules that were aligned to their practice areas/bespoke LPC courses.

Plus the PGDL generally isn’t tailored (it’s just a standardised course, a rebadged GDL with some SQE prep thrown in). As the SQE is standardised, the bulk of the prep courses are too.

If you have passed the SQE assessments you technically demonstrated you have the knowledge required for the career. If the firm wanted to offer more bespoke training, it is much more likely to be in the SQE prep for all candidates (rather than just the PGDL), but I think that is even unlikely.

The prep courses are really designed to get you through the SQE. Most firms are tailoring the knowledge gap they consider to be there with training during the TC (but that had always been the case, even with the LPC).

 

[Jane Smith]

Good advice above.
I am certainly not an expert, but the City Conrsortium firms are putting future trainees through the BPP PGDL (two terms) where they are non law graduates like you and then a term of SQE1 preparation (and then the exam) and then SQE 2 prep course and exam

BPP have an LLM (for which English students can obtain a student masters loan) which I think includes a PGDL course with some SQE preparation https://www.bpp.com/courses/law/postgraduate/sqe/non-law-graduate.