Perseverance or stupidity?

SameerS

Star Member
Jul 30, 2018
37
35
I just wanted to ask, how long did it take you guys to secure a training contract

This was my first year of applying, I had three interviews and I was unsuccessful in all 3 along with no vacation schemes. I am a law graduate.

The prospect of waiting another year is killing me and all my non-law friends have secured top jobs some with GSK , some with Merril Lynch and I am not jealous at all, it's just I am feeling like a failure and for the first time, I literally have no energy left in me.

People are telling to go join IBM become a business consultant or data consultant as you won't have to wait 2 years and Its just a downward spiral feeling.

I dont even know why I am typing but I am hoping somebody is out there with a story that motivates me to get back up.
 
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Lottie

Standard Member
Future Trainee
Apr 4, 2018
9
20
Hey

I have this thought too - it's been my first round of really applying. I also have lots of friends who are qualified lawyers and it's sometimes really difficult to be around them because I'm really struggling to even get a TC interview.

I think if its your first round of applications, have some time off over the summer, work out the firms you are really interested in, and go again - but only if you're sure it's what you want to do. Don't abandon it after the first round if it is what you want. Doing something else for the sake of it will likely make you feel even more down.

L
 
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taneshS

Star Member
Future Trainee
Feb 26, 2018
25
34
I secured a training contract last month and no word of a lie, it took me 5 years!

I've been where you are now and at many times I felt like giving up and pursuing a different career. The law process is especially draining because you have to deal with so many rejections, at different stages of the process. But honestly, although it may not feel like it now, one year is nothing in the grand scheme of things. If it's what you want to do then everything you have to deal with now will be worth it when you do secure your TC.
 

Hamza

New Member
Feb 26, 2018
4
25
33
Hi Sameer,

I know it can be disheartening when you’re in the situation and people are securing things and moving on in life - but look at it from the perspective of an outside observer for one minute. There’s victory and courage in not settling for less but instead getting what you want - and trust me, you will get what you want. Never let the doubt of others allow you to create self-doubt - it’s crazy what boundaries inner confidence can overcome.

I am now about to start my TC at a MC firm, and it took me a while to say the least with many ups and downs and many ‘i’ve moved on’s. My main barrier was that in uni during first and second year I got down-right awful grades (some of this was due to extenuating circumstances and some of it was my own fault).

I come from what some might call an “underprivileged” background, with no contacts and no insight into the industry or the path or the model to follow. Luckily I got all A’s during A levels from my state school (maybe a miracle more than luck now that I think about that school). But my uni grades were bad, however I managed to pull them up during third year and scrape a 2.1.

After graduating I wasn’t too stuck on getting into corporate law, my obsession was gradual. I applied after graduating only because it seemed logical. I got straight rejections (I tried to sell the story that as I got good in A levels and in my third year - the grades in my first years at uni were an anomaly; they didn’t buy it). They also seemed not to care about mitigating circumstances. I guess those rejections were as a result of just beginning my applications journey (drafting great app’s is actually an art) and my low grades.

I didn’t care too much, and my mind was on other pursuits/projects. But it was when friends and family started doubting me that I thought, wait, how can they think I can’t do this. I always think there’s a way - and when my mind gets on to something that’s it my life becomes about that. I knew I had to stand out and do something bold (I had no work experience in law), so I started networking with partners (either at events or simply reaching out to them on their emails which I got from websites). Through this I got work experience at a great US firm - nice points for my CV. But it still didn’t help with TC applications. During this time I was working in other places.

As I went deeper into understanding the corporate and commercial world, my interest developed in emerging markets and private equity. So I reached out to an alumnus of my uni as he was working in this space (i found him through an online search). We met and he was starting a corporate finance firm doing introductions between African corporates wanting to raise money and international investors with an appetite for risk. I ended up joining this small group of professionals with an entrepreneurial streak - even though they had no money to pay me apart from lunch and travel (they had 0 revenues for a long time - the business of dealmaking is one that takes a lot of groundwork, which is even harder when starting up in this area, and after that work you may get one deal after months/years that makes you enough money for years to come). So there I was, for one year working for no money - others thought I was crazy. But where they saw time-wasting I saw opportunity - opportunity to learn, opportunity to maybe network with more law partners and worm my way into recommendations from these partners when giving in my app’s, opportunity to learn about an exciting industry and show off my skills in the TC app’s, or opporunity to stay on at this firm and make more money than lawyers if it so went.

I learnt so much from this place, I went to important meetings that i’d never be allowed in on but as the team was so small I was given more responsibility - but more than that I think they took pity on the fact that I wasn’t earning any money and also not being given any equity in their business. So their currency for me was what I could learn there. And I took it all in.

During this time it so happened that my colleagues there needed advice on expanding their business into something new, and I knew a partner at a law firm (who I got to know through my networking) who worked in this area. I knew that this was my chance. I connected the two parties for a meeting, and the partner was so impressed after the meeting. He saw my potential. My introduction helped me to overcome my grades issue, and got my application passed the screening level so that I had an interview. But I had to do well on that interview, on the vac scheme and on the TC interview. Voila - that’s most of my story but i’ve also left a lot out as this is now becoming an essay.

This is not to show off, but to show you that there is always a way. It took me a few years, but I am so grateful that I didn’t get my TC after graduating and didn’t become a ‘new grad’ in a ‘new bubble’. My experience has made me more worldly, I understand the world a lot more and all the opportunities on offer - and I made the decision to go in to law and accept the TC for personal reasons- but I could have easily said no and had to contemplate a lot before accepting the offer - because when you understand the world and all opportunities on offer, choices become tougher. I also learned a lot about myself and developed a lot, skills that I wouldn’t even gain in a law firm (I also worked in sales at some point in this process - something I recommend everyone does at least once in their lives).

If you want a TC at corporate law firm, my concluding advice is to be creative and bold. And live your life, work in sales, work in crazy things and understand the world and yourself - you may realise that law is not the glamorous industry you thought it was, or you might think it is the place you want to be, or you may realise that it’s not the best place to be but for your larger ambitions it’s right for now. Keep going, don’t give up, if you want it you can get it - you just need to think outside the box. If I can get it then anyone can.
 
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Hamza

New Member
Feb 26, 2018
4
25
33
Sorry one more thing, above all you’re not going to have to go through what I went through - if you’ve received a few interviews already i’m guessing that it’s not grades or some other massive thing that’s out of your control that’s stopping you. Maybe it’s just that luck hasn’t been on your side, or maybe there is something stopping you but that thing is in your control - it will just take mastering (like applications or interview techniques or commercial awareness, etc.). The point of my story is - even in the worse case scenarios where things are stopping you that aren’t changeable/in your control, you can still get what you want. And I hope that motivates you as hopefully your path isn’t that hard.
 

jess889

Distinguished Member
Feb 26, 2018
53
37
Hi Sameer,

I know it can be disheartening when you’re in the situation and people are securing things and moving on in life - but look at it from the perspective of an outside observer for one minute. There’s victory and courage in not settling for less but instead getting what you want - and trust me, you will get what you want. Never let the doubt of others allow you to create self-doubt - it’s crazy what boundaries inner confidence can overcome.

I am now about to start my TC at a MC firm, and it took me a while to say the least with many ups and downs and many ‘i’ve moved on’s. My main barrier was that in uni during first and second year I got down-right awful grades (some of this was due to extenuating circumstances and some of it was my own fault).

I come from what some might call an “underprivileged” background, with no contacts and no insight into the industry or the path or the model to follow. Luckily I got all A’s during A levels from my state school (maybe a miracle more than luck now that I think about that school). But my uni grades were bad, however I managed to pull them up during third year and scrape a 2.1.

After graduating I wasn’t too stuck on getting into corporate law, my obsession was gradual. I applied after graduating only because it seemed logical. I got straight rejections (I tried to sell the story that as I got good in A levels and in my third year - the grades in my first years at uni were an anomaly; they didn’t buy it). They also seemed not to care about mitigating circumstances. I guess those rejections were as a result of just beginning my applications journey (drafting great app’s is actually an art) and my low grades.

I didn’t care too much, and my mind was on other pursuits/projects. But it was when friends and family started doubting me that I thought, wait, how can they think I can’t do this. I always think there’s a way - and when my mind gets on to something that’s it my life becomes about that. I knew I had to stand out and do something bold (I had no work experience in law), so I started networking with partners (either at events or simply reaching out to them on their emails which I got from websites). Through this I got work experience at a great US firm - nice points for my CV. But it still didn’t help with TC applications. During this time I was working in other places.

As I went deeper into understanding the corporate and commercial world, my interest developed in emerging markets and private equity. So I reached out to an alumnus of my uni as he was working in this space (i found him through an online search). We met and he was starting a corporate finance firm doing introductions between African corporates wanting to raise money and international investors with an appetite for risk. I ended up joining this small group of professionals with an entrepreneurial streak - even though they had no money to pay me apart from lunch and travel (they had 0 revenues for a long time - the business of dealmaking is one that takes a lot of groundwork, which is even harder when starting up in this area, and after that work you may get one deal after months/years that makes you enough money for years to come). So there I was, for one year working for no money - others thought I was crazy. But where they saw time-wasting I saw opportunity - opportunity to learn, opportunity to maybe network with more law partners and worm my way into recommendations from these partners when giving in my app’s, opportunity to learn about an exciting industry and show off my skills in the TC app’s, or opporunity to stay on at this firm and make more money than lawyers if it so went.

I learnt so much from this place, I went to important meetings that i’d never be allowed in on but as the team was so small I was given more responsibility - but more than that I think they took pity on the fact that I wasn’t earning any money and also not being given any equity in their business. So their currency for me was what I could learn there. And I took it all in.

During this time it so happened that my colleagues there needed advice on expanding their business into something new, and I knew a partner at a law firm (who I got to know through my networking) who worked in this area. I knew that this was my chance. I connected the two parties for a meeting, and the partner was so impressed after the meeting. He saw my potential. My introduction helped me to overcome my grades issue, and got my application passed the screening level so that I had an interview. But I had to do well on that interview, on the vac scheme and on the TC interview. Voila - that’s most of my story but i’ve also left a lot out as this is now becoming an essay.

This is not to show off, but to show you that there is always a way. It took me a few years, but I am so grateful that I didn’t get my TC after graduating and didn’t become a ‘new grad’ in a ‘new bubble’. My experience has made me more worldly, I understand the world a lot more and all the opportunities on offer - and I made the decision to go in to law and accept the TC for personal reasons- but I could have easily said no and had to contemplate a lot before accepting the offer - because when you understand the world and all opportunities on offer, choices become tougher. I also learned a lot about myself and developed a lot, skills that I wouldn’t even gain in a law firm (I also worked in sales at some point in this process - something I recommend everyone does at least once in their lives).

If you want a TC at corporate law firm, my concluding advice is to be creative and bold. And live your life, work in sales, work in crazy things and understand the world and yourself - you may realise that law is not the glamorous industry you thought it was, or you might think it is the place you want to be, or you may realise that it’s not the best place to be but for your larger ambitions it’s right for now. Keep going, don’t give up, if you want it you can get it - you just need to think outside the box. If I can get it then anyone can.

This is amazing motivation, thank you! And good luck starting at your MC firm, it must be really satisfying to finally be about to start!
 
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MightyMoe

Star Member
Feb 28, 2018
47
20
Thank you. Yes it is satisfying, just want to get it done now haha

Your journey is incredible. I'll be coming back to your post whenever I need motivation!

Do you mind if I ask, how long the period between when you started applying for TCs and when you secured your training contract with a magic circle firm?
 

SameerS

Star Member
Jul 30, 2018
37
35
Hi Hamza,

I don’t know what I was expecting when I wrote this thread sharing my depressing tale ..but I certainly was not expecting the post you shared.

I could not sleep last night and I found myself awake at about 5am and I don’t know why I found myself reading your post and getting teary eyed. I am so grateful for you taking the time to write your post - It really puts things into perspective and I guess we all have our times ..maybe this isn’t my time yet.

I will take some time away in the next few days to think how to approach the coming year but I know with the support of the corporate law acadmey community ..with People like Jaysen and Hamza I know it will not be long where Ill be thinking how silly I was wanting to give up.

Every time i think of the quote ‘we see humans but no humanity’ someone like Hamza comes up and rejuvenates the mood.

This has been such a moving post and I wish you so much success in all aspects of your life.

Love
Sameer
 
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Shane

Distinguished Member
Jul 22, 2018
63
128
Hi guys,

I'm entering into my penultimate year of Law and Chinese studies at University College Dublin and I will be applying for vacation schemes for the first time. As I'm applying from an Irish university I would appreciate it if you guys could give me an insight into whether I would be competitive enough to secure a vac scheme at a top city firm. I would just like to have a bit of perspective on my application prospects.

For some context, my A- Level equivalent is AAB and UCD is the top ranked Irish law school according to the QS university rankings.

My main concern would be my lack of work experience.

The firms I will be applying to include CC, fresh fields, HSF, HL, White & Case, JD, DLA, NRF and Bakers.
 

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Jaysen

Founder, TCLA
Staff member
TCLA Moderator
Gold Member
Premium Member
M&A Bootcamp
  • Feb 17, 2018
    4,692
    8,564
    Hi guys,

    I'm entering into my penultimate year of Law and Chinese studies at University College Dublin and I will be applying for vacation schemes for the first time. As I'm applying from an Irish university I would appreciate it if you guys could give me an insight into whether I would be competitive enough to secure a vac scheme at a top city firm. I would just like to have a bit of perspective on my application prospects.

    For some context, my A- Level equivalent is AAB and UCD is the top ranked Irish law school according to the QS university rankings.

    My main concern would be my lack of work experience.

    The firms I will be applying to include CC, fresh fields, HSF, HL, White & Case, JD, DLA, NRF and Bakers.

    I'm not familiar with the Irish grading system, but if you're on a first class then you've set yourself up well. You also have a range of extracurriculars and at least some legal experience to demonstrate your interest in working at a law firm.

    I suggest you focus on your applications. Try to sell the experiences you have on your CV and think about how you can convince recruiters that you are interested in commercial law.

    Otherwise, you are on the right track.
     

    Hamza

    New Member
    Feb 26, 2018
    4
    25
    33
    Your journey is incredible. I'll be coming back to your post whenever I need motivation!

    Do you mind if I ask, how long the period between when you started applying for TCs and when you secured your training contract with a magic circle firm?

    Sure, the period of time was about 3 years after graduating that I secured my first TC (so the timespan for the events that I wrote). However, that firm didn’t work out, as it was KWM and it ended up going into liquidation. So after all that I was left with no TC, and us future trainees were given no help by KWM or any other firms in securing another TC. We were back to square one.

    My plan was to focus on my business idea instead of applying again. But some friends convinced me to give in a few speculative applications for my conscience so i don’t regret not trying one more time later down the line. I gave in 3/4 app’s, and got rejections apart from 1 MC firm. I had an assessment day and the most interesting interview with a partner there outlining my story thus far and my motivations. A few days later I got the call that I secured the TC. So within a month of KWM going bust I had secured another TC and upgraded to a MC firm.

    It’s also sad because I still know people from my KWM cohort who are finding it hard to secure something. That added on about another half year to the timeline.
     

    MightyMoe

    Star Member
    Feb 28, 2018
    47
    20
    Sure, the period of time was about 3 years after graduating that I secured my first TC (so the timespan for the events that I wrote). However, that firm didn’t work out, as it was KWM and it ended up going into liquidation. So after all that I was left with no TC, and us future trainees were given no help by KWM or any other firms in securing another TC. We were back to square one.

    My plan was to focus on my business idea instead of applying again. But some friends convinced me to give in a few speculative applications for my conscience so i don’t regret not trying one more time later down the line. I gave in 3/4 app’s, and got rejections apart from 1 MC firm. I had an assessment day and the most interesting interview with a partner there outlining my story thus far and my motivations. A few days later I got the call that I secured the TC. So within a month of KWM going bust I had secured another TC and upgraded to a MC firm.

    It’s also sad because I still know people from my KWM cohort who are finding it hard to secure something. That added on about another half year to the timeline.

    I'm glad things worked out. That must have been horrible to finally secure a training contract and then have that taken away from you - I'm not sure how I'd deal with that. But then clearly a silver lining as you ended up at a magic circle firm. Imagine if you had just started a KWM and then it went bust!
     
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