TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[James Carrabino]

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you first came to law to do good, even if the question asked is 'why law' the question you need to answer rapidly becomes 'why commercial law'

This is maybe a bit different at a firm with a big public administrative practice like Mishcon where you could wax poetic about the Miller case but I'd still be cautious.

In all seriousness, if you came to law to do good why are you now looking for employment as a hired gun for big corporates? The answer cannot be 'because it's where the money is' (even if that is true). Maybe you think, well, lawyers are in a privileged position to keep corporations honest and accountable. Maybe you think, well, a bunch of economists say dealmaking is good for efficiency, creates value, that's good for society, and I want to use my particular skills and knowledge to contribute to that.

Mind, don't say those things if you don't believe them - you have to at least somewhat buy into the premise. It's perfectly fine imo to say 'well, I was drawn by public interest considerations but realised that that's not where my skillset really lies and I think I'd be better suited to a commercial career, and do a bit of pro bono on the side, I got really interested in business law because etc. etc.'

This is a great point @Rob93 and it has been an interesting conversation to follow. The one area where I say that 'doing good' can come into your motivations is if you are asked 'Why law over finance?' The pro bono focus in law (especially at US firms) is such that, whilst it is still a small part of the firm's overall work, it is definitely significant and can help to draw lawyers. Often 'doing good' is not even the primary motivation for lawyers I have met who love Pro Bono - they just value the exposure to something very different and interesting.

There is an even more significant point here as well, which is that law is very multi-faceted. Pro Bono aside, the work you have the potential to do at a law firm is just so broad and your training contract will give you the opportunity to really explore what is right for you!

 

[Rob93]

This is a great point @Rob93 and it has been an interesting conversation to follow. The one area where I say that 'doing good' can come into your motivations is if you are asked 'Why law over finance?' The pro bono focus in law (especially at US firms) is such that, whilst it is still a small part of the firm's overall work, it is definitely significant and can help to draw lawyers. Often 'doing good' is not even the primary motivation for lawyers I have met who love Pro Bono - they just value the exposure to something very different and interesting.

There is an even more significant point here as well, which is that law is very multi-faceted. Pro Bono aside, the work you have the potential to do at a law firm is just so broad and your training contract will give you the opportunity to really explore what is right for you!

Very good point!

 

[S87]

This is a great point @Rob93 and it has been an interesting conversation to follow. The one area where I say that 'doing good' can come into your motivations is if you are asked 'Why law over finance?' The pro bono focus in law (especially at US firms) is such that, whilst it is still a small part of the firm's overall work, it is definitely significant and can help to draw lawyers. Often 'doing good' is not even the primary motivation for lawyers I have met who love Pro Bono - they just value the exposure to something very different and interesting.

There is an even more significant point here as well, which is that law is very multi-faceted. Pro Bono aside, the work you have the potential to do at a law firm is just so broad and your training contract will give you the opportunity to really explore what is right for you!

I would also add, a training contract is your opportunity to understand if this is the career for you. One of my friends after his training contract has made the decision to become a well paid civil servant.

 

[fruiterloopers]

Anyone have any ideas as to what makes freshfields different?

 

[James Carrabino]

How do you differentiate between the questions 'why this firm' and 'what makes this firm stand out'? I find that my answers to the second are largely the things I'd say for the first so it's hard to make them different answers

I think that there can be different things to say for these two questions!

'What makes this firm stand out?' relates more to the firm's place in the market, I think. So I would not say that the firm's trainee buddy system makes the firm 'stand out', but it could be a reason that you are attracted to the firm (there are probably better examples 🤣).

Also, you may be interested in a certain niche area of law and the top lawyer in the market for that area of law is at the firm you are applying to - this would be an excellent reason for 'Why this firm?' but it may be the case that the firm is actually better known for a different, much larger practice area, which you could mention instead in response to 'What makes this firm stand out?' even if the larger practice area is not of direct interest to you.

I hope that makes some sense - not sure if I explained my thoughts well enough!

 

[rose0904]

does anyone have any advice for Evershed VI? I know its a short one but other than that I havent heard anyone else's experience

It's quite a decent VI in my opinion. The main advice I'd give is to know their competencies and to bear them in mind!

 

[James Carrabino]

I would also add, a training contract is your opportunity to understand if this is the career for you. One of my friends after his training contract has made the decision to become a well paid civil servant.

Absolutely! A training contract is so versatile, gets you a sought-after qualification and can prepare you to do almost anything else afterwards (with a level of legal insight and expertise that most businesses would value)!

And on the topic of 'doing good', I just remembered that in my final interview at a firm where I was successful, I actually told the partner interviewing me that the firm should drop one of its major clients on ethical grounds 🤣 I acknowledge that this may not usually be the best approach but we were discussing the relationship between ethics and business and I found myself having to lay out a clear criteria for when law firms should feel comfortable representing controversial clients and when they should not... sure enough the partner managed to find an example where a current client of the firm may not have fit my criteria, so I doubled down and said that I would thus recommend not continuing to work with the client in question!

I would probably avoid getting yourself into this situation if you can avoid it - I was very worried afterwards that it was a bad move 😀

 

[S87]

Absolutely! A training contract is so versatile, gets you a sought-after qualification and can prepare you to do almost anything else afterwards (with a level of legal insight and expertise that most businesses would value)!

And on the topic of 'doing good', I just remembered that in my final interview at a firm where I was successful, I actually told the partner interviewing me that the firm should drop one of its major clients on ethical grounds 🤣 I acknowledge that this may not usually be the best approach but we were discussing the relationship between ethics and business and I found myself having to lay out a clear criteria for when law firms should feel comfortable representing controversial clients and when they should not... sure enough the partner managed to find an example where a current client of the firm may not have fit my criteria, so I doubled down and said that I would thus recommend not continuing to work with the client in question!

I would probably avoid getting yourself into this situation if you can avoid it - I was very worried afterwards that it was a bad move 😀

 

[Aga123+]

Does anyone have any advice for Latham's VI! It's my first one so I'm unsure how to best prepare.

Latham VI (applied on 02/01/22) any tips would be much appreciated!

Not sure someone has already answered, but basically prepare for general competency and broad commercial awareness questions - It's not that bad, so just try not to overthink it

 

[lawful_neutral216]

Does anyone know what the Dechert Written Exercise is like? (the one at the VI stage, before the AC)

Feel free to PM me, I did the exercise last week!

 

[Aga123+]

Anyone have any ideas as to what makes freshfields different?

This might help:

LittleLaw on LinkedIn: Freshfields

🔍 What you need to know about… Freshfields 🔍 If you are considering applying to Freshfields, check out our full law firm report by clicking the link below!…

www.linkedin.com

 

[CorporateLaw101]

Does anyone know/can estimate how many people may be invited to an AC for Reed Smith? I heard they usually take around 22 people on their vacation scheme but this may be off.

They have 25 training contract places according to legal cheek and chambers mentions the 22 figure for vacation schemes but I have a feeling they might take on more.

I’d guess quite a lot of ACs.

@Jessica Booker might be able to put some educated guesstimates out there. (1500 initial applicants).

 

[ozza989]

They have 25 training contract places according to legal cheek and chambers mentions the 22 figure for vacation schemes but I have a feeling they might take on more.

I’d guess quite a lot of ACs.

@Jessica Booker might be able to put some educated guesstimates out there. (1500 initial applicants).

I know they are running 12 AC’s in total (Morning and Afternoon sessions on 6 days)

 

[Commerciallaw]

Good evening all!!

I am really struggling to answer the 'what is your biggest failure' question. Do you think it is possible to have a less tangible example - i.e. not believing in myself or always trying to make others happy but not thinking about what would make me happy.

Or does it have to be something more tangible like my mistake made the company lose £2 million.

Because if it is the latter i am stumped 😭 any advice or examples would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jessica Booker]

They have 25 training contract places according to legal cheek and chambers mentions the 22 figure for vacation schemes but I have a feeling they might take on more.

I’d guess quite a lot of ACs.

@Jessica Booker might be able to put some educated guesstimates out there. (1500 initial applicants).

22 vacation schemes will typically be around 45-75 candidates for assessment centres.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Good evening all!!

I am really struggling to answer the 'what is your biggest failure' question. Do you think it is possible to have a less tangible example - i.e. not believing in myself or always trying to make others happy but not thinking about what would make me happy.

Or does it have to be something more tangible like my mistake made the company lose £2 million.

Because if it is the latter i am stumped 😭 any advice or examples would be greatly appreciated.

It really needs something more tangible. But it doesn’t need anything big. This is more about how you bounce back from the failure, rather than the failure itself.

 

[rogerd123]

CMS academy offer 🥲 first AC I’ve done! So happy

 

[Tony Stark]

Hi congrats! Is this for summer?

Hey, yea it is

 

[LawfulRust00]

Good evening all!!

I am really struggling to answer the 'what is your biggest failure' question. Do you think it is possible to have a less tangible example - i.e. not believing in myself or always trying to make others happy but not thinking about what would make me happy.

Or does it have to be something more tangible like my mistake made the company lose £2 million.

Because if it is the latter i am stumped 😭 any advice or examples would be greatly appreciated.

I like to talk about my rejection at interview stage at the University of Cambridge. Ideally think of something factual that has a positive spin.

 

[APPLE619]

Hey guys! For anyone who has done the CC AC, I was wondering how long do you think we are expected to write for the written exercise? I remember grad rec saying "don't write too much but you need to write enough so it's not too brief"... Did you guys aim for a page or maybe half a page? Not too sure what to expect!

Thanks