TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

I'd say on average two hours, but definitely do spend longer sometimes.

How?

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

I'd say on average two to three hours, but definitely do spend longer sometimes, and have also done quite a few quicker too!

It really depends on the questions - you've got a lot of copy/paste type questions "challenging situation", where I would just copy-edit and spend only a few minutes on that question.

Other times it's a bit more time-consuming, e.g., "talk about a current commercial issue", and you've got to find something new for their sector. But then you might be able to reuse that commercial issue for another firm in the same sector.

In terms of "why this firm", this requires most research I guess, but I tend to focus on trying to relate my skills to their obvious practice areas off Legal 500 and so on, rather than drilling down too deep. I don't know how strictly effective my approach is: around one in five of my applications get progressed from form stage.

Your approach has been much more effective than mine this cycle...

 

[trainee4u]

How?

In a large part it's volume of applications. E.g., I've got an application for Payne Hicks Beach to do, which I've not started, and which is due today, and I don't know anything about.

They ask for "600 word statement", via allhires. Filling in allhires takes about five minutes via copy-paste and MyLocker, and then I've got a bunch of previous statements that I can mine for a large part of the 600-word statement.

Then I'd go to their website, go to 'People', click on Partners, they've got 46, check what they do, ok "international arbitration", "high net worth", "international immigration", landed estates, etc. Check Legal 500, check Chambers, go through Chambers Student, Legal Cheek, looking for particular comments about the training process, build it into my answer.

Do a double check for grammar and spelling with ChatGPT and then submit.

I've in the past looked at applications on congrapps for law firms that (they say) have made it through to final stages, and I feel like most of them are pretty generic, in the sense that they could follow a similar copy-paste approach in terms of writing about themselves for multiple applications. But it's really hard to say - I don't know if the congrapps are genuinely good or not; IDK, I'm lazy and this approach kinda works for me in the eventually I reach a sufficient zen-like intersection of laziness and deadline-pressure getting me to vomit out sufficient applications to get to sufficient next stages to at some point get a TC.

Unfortunately I've not yet got beyond stage two to get somewhere, so my next master plan of laziness is to write a VI Windows app that spits random VI questions at me from a file, have it record my reply, feed the recorded video into chatgpt to transcribe, ask the AI to insult me sufficiently based on the transcription (and also review it myself), and then try and work on that to do better in interviews.

the most applications I ever did in one day was thirteen (on 31 January):

Curtis (still waiting, assume PFO)
Stevens & Bolton (partner interview - PFO)
DMH Stallard (still waiting)
Gateley (PFOed at stage two: post-VI)
Fox Williams (waiting following third-stage VI)
Ropes (PFOed)
Boodle Hatfield (PFOed)
Shoosmiths (PFOed probably based on SJT?)
Harbottle & Lewis (still waiting, I think PFO?)
Orrick (PFOed)
K&L Gates (PFOed)
Northridge (did the application but didn't realise it was noon cut-off, so didn't actually submit it)
Brown Rudnick (PFOed)

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

In a large part it's volume of applications. E.g., I've got an application for Payne Hicks Beach to do, which I've not started, and which is due today, and I don't know anything about.

They ask for "600 word statement", via allhires. Filling in allhires takes about five minutes via copy-paste and MyLocker, and then I've got a bunch of previous statements that I can mine for a large part of the 600-word statement.

Then I'd go to their website, go to 'People', click on Partners, they've got 46, check what they do, ok "international arbitration", "high net worth", "international immigration", landed estates, etc. Check Legal 500, check Chambers, go through Chambers Student, Legal Cheek, looking for particular comments about the training process, build it into my answer.

Do a double check for grammar and spelling with ChatGPT and then submit.

I've in the past looked at applications on congrapps for law firms that (they say) have made it through to final stages, and I feel like most of them are pretty generic, in the sense that they could follow a similar copy-paste approach in terms of writing about themselves for multiple applications. But it's really hard to say - I don't know if the congrapps are genuinely good or not; IDK, I'm lazy and this approach kinda works for me in the eventually I reach a sufficient zen-like intersection of laziness and deadline-pressure getting me to vomit out sufficient applications to get to sufficient next stages to at some point get a TC.

Unfortunately I've not yet got beyond stage two to get somewhere, so my next master plan of laziness is to write a VI Windows app that spits random VI questions at me from a file, have it record my reply, feed the recorded video into chatgpt to transcribe, ask the AI to insult me sufficiently based on the transcription (and also review it myself), and then try and work on that to do better in interviews.

This is really insightful - thank you for sharing! I imagine the part about searching the website for Partner count and checking for key terms, you could probably build into a prompt for ChatGPT and have even less manual work to do.

I like how you've managed to boil it all down to repeatable/programmable steps. Just rinse and repeat. Probably takes the sting out of rejection too.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Maybe this is greedy of me but do you have a similar insight for BCLP?

Thank you

Haha, cheeky ask @A worried graduate 😄

I tend to save these summaries for firms that don’t get covered as much in TCLA's current directory and firm profiles. Since BCLP is pretty well covered in TCLA’s resources already, I'd recommend having a look through the TCLA firm directory – it’s genuinely one of the best places to start for many of the Magic Circle, US and silver circle firms. If anything in there sparks a question or you want to chat comparisons with other firms, just shout. Happy to help where I can!

 

[trainee4u]

This is really insightful - thank you for sharing! I imagine the part about searching the website for Partner count and checking for key terms, you could probably build into a prompt for ChatGPT and have even less manual work to do.

I like how you've managed to boil it all down to repeatable/programmable steps. Just rinse and repeat. Probably takes the sting out of rejection too.

In terms of ChatGPT, I think yes if you ask a specific 'deepresearch' module then it could probably compile that in about a minute.

I took a look at my Milbank application, which i felt was incredibly generic but made it through:

Why us?
1. explain my international background and how it's relevant to an int'l firm
2. check on Google that they do Sharia finance. Explain my interest. (Reusable point)
3. points from legalcheek/chambers student about their training process, relate to myself: again generic in that other firms will have similar processes
(didn't even mention specific deals or lawyers, so could definitely have gone a lot better)

Your skills to be solicitor
Simple copy paste

Curent affairs topic
I gave some bullet points about AI legal issues including copyright, GDPR, DMA, etc. and related it to investment in AI. This was an answer I repeated to several firms but spending ten minutes perhaps relating it to my understanding of the firm in question.

OTOH I do have non-legal work experience, but the work experience definitely isn't sufficient to get you through - you do need to write relevant, literate answers - I did some even lazier, more terrible answers last year, and it was hopeless - nothing can outweigh a 150-word answer to a 300-word question or whatever

I wouldn't necessarily counsel people to follow my approach in terms of not giving ultra-researched answers, because it might not work for you, depending on what the rest of your application form looks like, but I can say that the more applications you do, the more you will acquire reusable answers to the behavioural type questions, so it definitely makes the process easier.

 

[A worried paralegal]

Haha, cheeky ask @A worried graduate 😄

I tend to save these summaries for firms that don’t get covered as much in TCLA's current directory and firm profiles. Since BCLP is pretty well covered in TCLA’s resources already, I'd recommend having a look through the TCLA firm directory – it’s genuinely one of the best places to start for many of the Magic Circle, US and silver circle firms. If anything in there sparks a question or you want to chat comparisons with other firms, just shout. Happy to help where I can!

Love this

Thank you

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

@Jessica Booker I have a question pls... I have 3 VS coming up in the summer but am in the final round for a direct TC. If i was offered the TC, do/can I still do the Vac Schemes? Or would I have to make the decision if I am accepting before the Vac Schemes? Equally, Can I accept the offer and then withdraw if I was to be offered a TC from a Vac Scheme at a firm I prefer?!

Unfortunately there is no set process for this. Some firms may restrict you from doing vacation schemes if you have accepted a TC, but this may not just be your TC firm, it can also be your VS firms that also have this term. It is worthwhile checking any written offers (both TC and VS) for such terms.

If you are offered a TC, you may only have a few weeks to accept the offer. Some firms may extend the offer until later on in the summer - again this varies massively between firms so its worthwhile reading the TC offer carefully to weigh this into your decision making. You may be able to negotiate an extension of the offer period for any firm where you would have to accept before your VS and which may restrict you from completing your vacation schemes. I have also heard of people being able to negotiate removing clauses from offers that would otherwise restrict them from doing a VS.

If there are no terms, then there is nothing stopping you from proceeding with the vacation schemes. I would recommend reneging any vacation scheme offers where you are certain you wouldn't accept a TC with the firm over the firm you have a TC offer from now. There is little value in completing a vacation scheme if you have no intention of potentially converting to a TC with them and it would be best to focus your effort and energy into the schemes you do potentially prefer.

 

[A worried paralegal]

Hill Dickinson second holding email

Almost two heart attacks now

 

[radssss]

I’ve gotten a holding email from Hill Dickinson that they’ll get back to us by 7 April!!

Seems like they’re gonna send me the PFO by then considering they’ve sent out AC invites😭

 

[Harvey Specter - Presiding Partner]

Hey, you've managed a pretty amazing hit rate with your app strategy, so it seems to be working! It just seems insane to be spending this kind of time applying to jobs - I probably shouldn't be assigning monetary values to these apps, but even applying the national living wage to these, the numbers really add up. It sometimes makes me wonder if this is the best use of my time. Might just be the post-VS-cycle blues.

It’s definitely time consuming but I think it has worked out well for me. I have sent 20 VS applications this cycle and 8 got past the application stage (Akin, BCLP, Covington, Paul, Weiss, SH, White & Case and Willkie). I am still waiting to hear back from PH post interview. 🥲

I think based on the 20 I know the outcome for, 2 in 5 got past the application stage. Of these, I got 5 VS offers. I think that’s a 1 in 4 rate (application to VS offer). If PH works out, that would be amazing! 😅

I guess some people are able to send a lot more applications out, spending fewer hours on each. I spent a lot more time on doing firm research than writing. It’s hard balancing sending applications with working full time! 🥲​

 

[aleece]

Anybody still waiting to hear back from Mishcon post-VI for Summer VS?

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

@Jessica Booker or anyone else who has an idea:

I have a summer three-week VS coming in June and am wondering what work experiences I can do in the meantime. I have completed all of my academic studies (just passed all of my SQE exams), so I am essentially free from now until then. I have been making direct TC apps every now and again. I have a four-week QWE from late April to early May. I have no clue how to best make use of my time. Would potential employers view my non-working months in a bad light? I am unsure about paralegal roles due to my unavailability during my VS. Does anyone know what I could do in the meantime (so I would also not be bored to death)?

You could try some paralegal temp agencies as an option, but if you have 4 weeks of work experience in a few weeks time and then a VS in June, it will be difficult to find anything that isn't temp work.

A few weeks between jobs is not going to be an issue for firms though - this is very common. Its only extended periods (e.g. over 6 months) of not being in any form of commitment, such as any job, any education or training, or any volunteering that would cause a level of concern.

 

[Legallylaw]

For a paralegal cover letter, the first thing is to look closely at the job description/job advert and pick out key information/requirements from that and build it into your cover letter.

It is important to cover the following within the cover letter:

• Why the firm
• Why the opportunity (e.g. why specifically that paralegal role in that department - e.g. if it is a Real Estate Paralegal role, why do you want to work in Real Estate and why specifically that paralegal role).
• Why you

Hi, I was looking for some advice on what should a cover letter entail for a summer work experience at a national specialist firm?Any advice you can provide would be much appreciated !

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

White & Case summer VS!!! genuinely in shock rn

Such great news before the weekend! Hope you're gonna celebrate!

 

[aphelion]

It’s definitely time consuming but I think it has worked out well for me. I have sent 16 VS applications this cycle and 5 got past the application stage (BCLP, Paul, Weiss, SH, White & Case and Willkie). I am still waiting to hear back from PH. 🥲

I think based on the 15 I know the outcome for, 1 in 3 got past the application stage. Of these, I got 3 VS offers. I think that’s a 1 in 5 rate (application to VS offer). If PH works out, that would be a 1 in 4 rate! 😅

I guess some people are able to send a lot more applications out, spending fewer hours on each. I spent a lot more time on doing firm research than writing. It’s hard balancing sending applications with working full time! 🥲​

These are such good stats.

I really do think that around 10-15 high quality apps with a lot of firm research/engagement can be the sweet spot for a lot of people, especially when you're working!

I'm also working full-time. I've done 11 apps (1 more to do) and I've found success with this strategy.

 

[A worried paralegal]

I’ve gotten a holding email from Hill Dickinson that they’ll get back to us by 7 April!!

Seems like they’re gonna send me the PFO by then considering they’ve sent out AC invites😭

Personal instinct is that we are reserve list or applied later than those who got ACs.

We shall see

 

[radssss]

Personal instinct is that we are reserve list or applied later than those who got ACs.

We shall see

I hope you are right🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

Tbf i did apply a day before the deadline

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi, I was looking for some advice on what should a cover letter entail for a summer work experience at a national specialist firm?Any advice you can provide would be much appreciated !

Hiya @Legallylaw

I think @Jessica Booker might have more to add here, but I generally think writing a cover letter in this context isn’t too different from writing one for any other legal work experience or scheme. You’ll want to make sure your cover letter clearly covers these key points:

• A brief introduction: Who you are, what stage you’re at (e.g. student, graduate, etc.), and what you’re applying for.
• Why this firm?: This is the part to really tailor. Try to be as specific as possible about what interests you about this particular specialist firm. It could be their niche focus, recent work, reputation in a particular area, or even something about their values or culture.
• What you bring: Briefly outline any relevant experiences, skills, or qualities that make you a strong candidate. Even if you don’t have legal experience, you can mention experiences that you think would give you the transferable skills to do well on this summer scheme.

Unless they specify otherwise, I think it’s best to keep your cover letter to one page. I'd also avoid technical language or jargon as far as possible. Just try to be clear and professional in your tone. Best of luck with your application!

 

[y3920]

You could try some paralegal temp agencies as an option, but if you have 4 weeks of work experience in a few weeks time and then a VS in June, it will be difficult to find anything that isn't temp work.

A few weeks between jobs is not going to be an issue for firms though - this is very common. Its only extended periods (e.g. over 6 months) of not being in any form of commitment, such as any job, any education or training, or any volunteering that would cause a level of concern.

Hi again. Thank you so much for your advice. Just now I have been updated that my QWE have been moved to November. Could you advise me how can I find other temp work in the meantime?