TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[member7830]

what's the best way to research a firms market position/ who their biggest competitors are?

 

[Logan1101]

Do internships even matter? They are worse than Vacation schemes!

Even if you get a competitive internship with a firm, you don't get considered for a training contract or any advantage when applying versus thousands of other applicants. It's an absolute joke. I know cause I completed one for both private practice(London) and in-house.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hiya @member7830

I just wanted to include the following thread by @Amma Usman which beautifully sets out how you can go about researching firms and their competitors. Hoping this helps you get a start. Let us know if you have any other questions

In this guide, I’ll be talking about how to identify a law firm’s competitors. This is a skill that’s not only useful for applications but also helps you get a much better understanding of the legal industry as a whole. Honestly, this was something I initially struggled with. I found it hard to figure out where one firm stood compared to others in the same space. However, once I cracked the code, everything became so much easier. Applying to firms felt less overwhelming because I already knew the industry inside out. For any firm I applied to, I also had a clear picture of who their competitors were, which made answering application and interview questions so much smoother.

Understanding a law firm’s competitors is crucial because it helps you position yourself as an informed candidate. It shows you’ve done your homework and understand not just the firm but also the broader landscape they operate in.

This is a simple four-step method I use to figure out a firm’s competitors, with some examples to make it easier to follow.

Step 1: Identify the Firm’s Core Practice Areas

Start by looking at the firm’s primary areas of expertise. You can find this information on the firm’s website under "Practice Areas" or "What We Do."


Example 1 (CMS):
CMS has a strong focus on tax law, real estate, and energy and infrastructure.


Example 2 (Transactional Law Firms):
Kirkland & Ellis and Latham & Watkins specialise in high-yield debt and large-scale private equity (PE) transactions. Travers Smith focuses on mid-market private equity.


Step 2: Search for the Firm’s Chambers Rankings

Visit Chambers and Partners’ website and check the firm’s rankings in their core practice areas. Focus on the practice areas where the firm is ranked highly.


Example 1 (CMS):
CMS is ranked Band 1 for Tax in the UK.

Example 2 (Transactional Law Firms):
Kirkland & Ellis and Latham & Watkins are consistently ranked at the top for Private Equity: High-End Capability and Capital Markets: High-Yield Debt. Travers Smith is ranked in Band 1 or 2 for Private Equity: Mid-Market.


Step 3: Identify Other Firms with Similar Rankings

Look at which other firms are ranked in the same or adjacent bands for those practice areas. These firms are likely competitors as they operate at a similar level of expertise and reputation.


Example 1 (CMS):
For Tax, other firms ranked in Band 1 or Band 2 include PwC Legal, DLA Piper, and Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer.


Example 2 (Transactional Law Firms):
In high-yield deals, firms like Weil, Gotshal & Manges and Simpson Thacher frequently compete with Kirkland and Latham. In mid-market private equity, Macfarlanes and Addleshaw Goddard are notable competitors to Travers Smith.



Step 4: Analyse the Scope and Type of Deals

Investigate the types of deals the firm works on. Are they advising large multinationals, mid-market clients, or startups? Do they focus on complex cross-border transactions or smaller domestic matters? Identify other firms handling similar client types and deal scopes.


Example 1 (CMS):
CMS often works on mid-market deals and has a strong client base in the energy sector. Firms like Eversheds Sutherland and Pinsent Masons also operate heavily in these areas.


Example 2 (Transactional Law Firms):
High-Yield Private Equity: Kirkland & Ellis and Latham & Watkins typically handle large-scale, cross-border transactions for major PE clients like Blackstone and KKR. Their deals are often complex, high-value, and heavily leveraged.

Mid-Market Private Equity: Travers Smith advises mid-market PE firms like Bridgepoint and Inflexion, often on buyouts, exits, and growth capital investments. Their deals are smaller in scope but require tailored, hands-on advisory.


Confirm Your Findings

If a firm appears consistently across all four steps, it’s very likely to be a key competitor.


Example 1 (CMS):
When analysing CMS, you’ll notice that Eversheds Sutherland, Pinsent Masons, and DLA Piper come up repeatedly in tax law, real estate, and mid-market energy deals. These firms are strong competitors of CMS.


Example 2 (Transactional Law Firms):
For high-yield private equity deals, Kirkland & Ellis and Latham & Watkins consistently compete with Simpson Thacher and Weil, Gotshal & Manges. For mid-market private equity deals, Travers Smith faces competition from Macfarlanes and Addleshaw Goddard.


Note:

Although I’ve been going on and on about band rankings, band rankings are not everything. A firm may not have a Band 1 ranking in an area, but still have a good specialty in that practice - within a niche instead. Find out which law firms compete within that niche as well, to decide their respective competitors.

Another special note:

If you’re trying to figure out if firms are competitors, I wouldn’t rely on Band 1 rankings alone. It’s a good starting point, but there’s more to it. For example, just because a firm is Band 1 in infrastructure and five other firms are too, doesn’t mean they’re all direct competitors. You’ve got to dig deeper into what they actually do within that area. Are they working on the same type of projects? One firm might specialise in financing infrastructure deals, while another focuses on disputes or PPP projects, so they might not be directly competing.

You also need to look at where they’re operating. If one firm’s focus is primarily in the UK and the others are big in Asia or Africa, they’re not really clashing for the same clients. Cross-border work is another factor. If two firms have a strong global reach, they’re more likely to compete than if one only works regionally.

Another thing to check is their client base. Are they going after the same kinds of clients, like government bodies or private equity investors? If you notice they’re working for completely different sectors, they might not even be on each other’s radar. Rankings won’t tell you that, but their deal announcements or case studies might.

Then there’s reputation, beyond just being ranked Band 1, are these firms seen as leaders in the field? Do they publish thought pieces, host events, or push innovation like new ESG approaches? Sometimes a firm might technically rank the same but not have the same level of influence in the market.

Volume and size of deals also matter. A firm doing smaller or mid-sized infrastructure work won’t really be competing with a firm that handles billion-pound projects. It’s about scale, not just rankings.

One thing that really gives it away is lateral hires. If two firms are always poaching talent from each other in a certain area, it’s a big sign they see each other as competitors. And finally, you’ve got to think about strategy. If a firm has publicly said it’s focusing on growing its infrastructure practice and targeting the same regions as another Band 1 firm, that’s a clear overlap.

So yeah, Band 1 rankings are helpful, but they’re just scratching the surface. You’ve got to think about clients, geography, deal size, and strategy to really figure out if firms are competing. It’s all about the bigger picture.

Why This Approach Works

This method saves time and ensures accuracy by systematically cross-referencing rankings, deal types, and client profiles.

Best of luck this cycle… we’re rooting for you !!!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Do internships even matter? They are worse than Vacation schemes!

Even if you get a competitive internship with a firm, you don't get considered for a training contract or any advantage when applying versus thousands of other applicants. It's an absolute joke. I know cause I completed one for both private practice(London) and in-house.

Heya @Logan1101

Having been in a similar situation before, I understand where your frustration is coming from. It’s disheartening to secure competitive internships and then find they don’t translate into more long-term opportunities at those organisations.

But I don't think it follows that these experiences are without value. The fact that you were able to access both competitive private practice and in-house internships is a pretty big achievement. Even if the training contract didn’t materialise, you’ve gained something substantial: a clearer sense of what lawyers do, and what kinds of legal environments you operate well in. That’s definitely not trivial.

To get the most out of these for future applications, I think it's worth thinking about what these internships gave you that you didn’t have before? What felt interesting? What did you observe about legal practice? What kind of problems did you get to help address? What kind of tasks did you get to carry out? Think also about what these experiences taught you about your own interests and aptitudes. This kind of reflection can be powerful when you get to drafting future applications, not only as evidence of your clear competence, but as an indication to recruiters of your thoughtfulness and resilience.

Again, none of this negates the disappointment. But it does mean your work and experiences have value, even if it isn't yet obvious to you. Really encourage you to leverage these achievements going forward. Let us know if you have any questions about how you can do that effectively. Happy to help.

 

[helenaskelton]

what's the best way to research a firms market position/ who their biggest competitors are?

Their website, this forum, Legal Cheek / Chambers or Chat GPT

 

[Apple]

The upcoming cycle is going to be my 2nd application since graduating. I've only been doing retail work and volunteering in this time. Is this something I am likely to be questioned on during interviews? IDK why but it feels like I've done nothing with my time, but I'm committed to law so I haven't felt the need to pursue graduate positions other than vac schemes. I've also had medical issues that made doing things and being active quite difficult, although I'd rather not disclose it to the firms I apply to.

This is something I'm always worried about for whatever reason, does anybody have personal experience or know somebody who has been in this position and succeeded?

 

[BobThebIlly]

Has anyone else received a first stage interview from PH?

 

[tclauser1234567890]

Is anyone else still waiting for White & Case post-vi?

 

[gazdgazd11]

The upcoming cycle is going to be my 2nd application since graduating. I've only been doing retail work and volunteering in this time. Is this something I am likely to be questioned on during interviews? IDK why but it feels like I've done nothing with my time, but I'm committed to law so I haven't felt the need to pursue graduate positions other than vac schemes. I've also had medical issues that made doing things and being active quite difficult, although I'd rather not disclose it to the firms I apply to.

This is something I'm always worried about for whatever reason, does anybody have personal experience or know somebody who has been in this position and succeeded?

I Don’t Think so. I graduated in 2022 and been applying without doing anything in UK law. It’s fine, they understand how hard it is to get a job in law imo. BTW I’ve secured 2 vac schemes and 4 ACs with this background

 

[Apple]

I Don’t Think so. I graduated in 2022 and been applying without doing anything in UK law. It’s fine, they understand how hard it is to get a job in law imo. BTW I’ve secured 2 vac schemes and 4 ACs with this background

Thank you, and well done!

 

[AnAnonymousDuck]

Hi @Jessica Booker @Amma Usman @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam

I have an AC next week where i have to give a presentation based on an answer I provided in my application for a ‘please describe a current news story which is of interest to you and why.’ I decided at the time to use an answer that I had used previously related to competition as I was best able to link it back to myself and my prior experience.

The firm’s London office does not offer a seat in competition nor have a practice area in it. A lot of advice I have seen online for this AC says that candidates should expand on their commercial story and that it is really important to explicitly link it back to the firm and not just rely on knowing the topic well.

I am struggling to find ways to link it back to the firm since they don’t work in competition law and don’t really know how to approach this? Does anyone have any advice?

 

[cwhite233]

Anyone know if the following deadline from Winston and Strawn means midnight tonight (eg Sunday evening) or midnight tomorrow (eg Monday evening)? So confused by this language!

The deadline to complete this task is midnight on Monday 7th April 2025.

 

[trainee4u]

Anyone know if the following deadline from Winston and Strawn means midnight tonight (eg Sunday evening) or midnight tomorrow (eg Monday evening)? So confused by this language!

The deadline to complete this task is midnight on Monday 7th April 2025.

dodgy drafting!

Conventionally style guides suggest it means the end of Monday.

However, it's poor to use in this context, which would be better expressed as 23:59:59 (cf. 00:00, which is unambiguously then Sunday night into Monday morning)

 

[tosin4774]

How do I answer, " What has attracted you to the role of campus ambassador at Hogan Lovells? " Should I make it relate personally to me, the firm, or both, @Andrei Radu?

 

[stulaw345]

anyone heard from Stevenson Harwood? if so, how long did they give you until the interview

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

How do I answer, " What has attracted you to the role of campus ambassador at Hogan Lovells? " Should I make it relate personally to me, the firm, or both, @Andrei Radu?

I would ensure both are covered. It’s important to make the focus on the brand ambassador role though - the answer should not talk about the firm or opportunity as if it is a TC or VS opportunity.

 

[tosin4774]

I would ensure both are covered. It’s important to make the focus on the brand ambassador role though - the answer should not talk about the firm or opportunity as if it is a TC or VS opportunity.

Thank you

 

[Chris Brown]

Hi @Andrei Radu,

I hope you are keeping well.

Breezy has an interview coming up with Paul Hastings for their Phirst Steps SVS. I am asking the following question on his behalf. He is away on a Spring VS at the moment. I think he asked you similar questions on this forum before re Paul, Weiss and Willkie, to which you gave really good answers. I have copied it below:

‘How would you describe Paul Hastings’ position in the City of London? Who are the firm’s closest competitors in relation to (1) the firm’s core practice areas and (2) other US BigLaw firms in London? What makes Paul Hastings unique compared to its competitors?

Could you explain the difference between debt and equity capital markets? Is this the same as PE? Could you also explain what capital markets: securitisation and capital markets: high yield products are? Please help.’​

 

[BobThebIlly]

anyone heard from Stevenson Hardwood? if so, how long did they give you until the interview

Bro im still waiting on them 💀💀 they haven’t even given the test or a PFO so idk if I should email them

guessing a PFO since I applied for the summer

 

[g.cl.2020344]

Anything form Orrick post AC? Ik someone got an offer so idk if no news is PFO or offers r going out slowly? A future trainee I spoke to said last year offers went out across a week and a half so idk whether to keep my hopes up