TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2024-5

[studentdelaw786]

Is it a PFO if there is no new email beyond the confirmation email from Dorsey?

They’ve held interviews.

 

[t-0147]

When did people start receiving the WG after submitting their app to Hogan Lovells?

immediately after submitting the app basically. it is automatic

 

[TortillaTC]

immediately after submitting the app basically. it is automatic

Thank you! Also I know I was just wondering if it goes out in batches like in previous years. I submitted my app on Thursday and haven’t received it yet.

 

[amrita6399]

Thank you! Also I know I was just wondering if it goes out in batches like in previous years. I submitted my app on Thursday and haven’t received it yet.

I think it takes about 2 to 3 days from the submission of the application.

 

[YS391]

Has anyone progressed from the application stage to the next stage at Dentons (the test or VI stage)? It seems that most of us, including myself, received PFOs post application, which makes me think they might have already filled most of their TC spots through vacation schemes.

 

[badmintonflyinginsect]

is the paul weiss interview CV blind?

 

[akuss]

Has anyone moved past VI for W&C, or received PFO post VI?

 

[RS Sanjanaa]

Has anyone moved past VI for W&C, or received PFO post VI?

I was told that we would hear back within the next 2 weeks if selected

 

[akuss]

I was told that we would hear back within the next 2 weeks if selected

Thanks for the info, I messed up my VI real bad, so I don't have hopes really . All the best to you!

 

[Atam!]

I was told that we would hear back within the next 2 weeks if selected

Did they say anything on those who still haven’t gotten a pfo post application? It has been weeks

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi all!

I wondered if anyone knows about Watson Glaser percentiles - is the percentile your score as a percentage? I know it is a comparison as to how you performed against your norm group but if anyone had any info on this, then I would really appreciate it!

Hiya @👩🎓

Just to clarify: a percentile is not the same as a percentage. A percentage is your raw score (e.g. getting 75% of questions correct), whereas a percentile tells you how well you performed relative to others in your norm group. So if you’re in the 75th percentile, that means you scored better than 75% of people in that group, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you got 75% of the answers right. Even with the same number of correct answers, your percentile could shift dramatically depending on the norm group.

What makes this tricky is that you don’t know what norm group you're being compared against; it could be everyone applying to that firm, or a broader population. You also don’t know how the firm is using the result. Some use it as a hard filter, others as just one factor among many. For now, I'd just focus on trying to get better and understand the type of reasoning demanded by each section.

Hope this is helpful and not rehashing anything you already know.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi everyone, I’m hoping to get some guidance.

I’m currently pursuing an LLM in the UK, and I did my undergraduate law degree in India. My issue is how to address my academic grades in applications. My overall percentage is 57%, which looks quite low by UK standards. However, my university had a very strict marking system—60% is considered a first class, and 55–60% falls into the “high second class,” which can roughly correspond to a 2:1 in the UK. Despite the percentage, I was ranked 6th out of a batch of over 300 students, and I have a letter from my university confirming this.

I’ve also done over 36 months' worth of internships, won several moots, and have a strong profile in terms of practical experience.

According to TCLA’s review, my application (cover letter, commercial awareness responses, etc.) was good, so I’m wondering if the grades are possibly hurting my chances.

How should I address this in my future applications? Should I include a brief explanation in the cover letter or attach the university’s grading policy?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hiya @Antariksh Singh Jamwal

I've posted a reply to your question here: https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....grade-high-ranking-in-class.9708/#post-214645

In short, it’s definitely something worth flagging in your application. Law firms are generally familiar with the fact that international grading systems operate differently, and they’ll often use conversion guidance (similar to what UK universities use) to interpret overseas qualifications. That said, if your class rank places you in the top 5% or 10% of your cohort, I'd absolutely include that detail in the academic section of the application. Many firms give you the option to add context (whether in the grade box itself or in an additional information section) and this kind of context is exactly what those sections are for.

 

[👩🎓]

Hiya @👩🎓

Just to clarify: a percentile is not the same as a percentage. A percentage is your raw score (e.g. getting 75% of questions correct), whereas a percentile tells you how well you performed relative to others in your norm group. So if you’re in the 75th percentile, that means you scored better than 75% of people in that group, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you got 75% of the answers right. Even with the same number of correct answers, your percentile could shift dramatically depending on the norm group.

What makes this tricky is that you don’t know what norm group you're being compared against; it could be everyone applying to that firm, or a broader population. You also don’t know how the firm is using the result. Some use it as a hard filter, others as just one factor among many. For now, I'd just focus on trying to get better and understand the type of reasoning demanded by each section.

Hope this is helpful and not rehashing anything you already know.

Thank you, this is really helpful @Ram Sabaratnam

 

[khan2025]

Anyone has any tips on how to prepare for the GLD/GLP AC written exercise? I'm struggling to find anything online....
Thanks!

 

[iklawapps]

Out of curiosity does HL tell you if you passed the WG? I remember Clifford Chance did but idk abt Hogan Lovells ) thanks

 

[TortillaTC]

Out of curiosity does HL tell you if you passed the WG? I remember Clifford Chance did but idk abt Hogan Lovells ) thanks

No they don’t, you just find out if you passed the first stage overall (application form+HL).

 

[zonnonomo]

Out of curiosity does HL tell you if you passed the WG? I remember Clifford Chance did but idk abt Hogan Lovells ) thanks

you can email them to ask if you've passed or not; same as links

HL used to tell candidates their percentile on the WG too but this cycle they only let people know if they failed/passed

 

[butters]

Hi! Does anyone have any insights on the Flex Trainee Assessment? Struggling to find more information on their setup - thanks to anyone in advance.

 

[trainee4u]

What makes this tricky is that you don’t know what norm group you're being compared against; it could be everyone applying to that firm, or a broader population. You also don’t know how the firm is using the result. Some use it as a hard filter, others as just one factor among many. For now, I'd just focus on trying to get better and understand the type of reasoning demanded by each section.

From what I've seen the percentile will be relative to a reference group set by the provider rather than applicants to the firm. (It is possible to pay to request a personalised reference group, but this doesn't seem useful for law recruitment).

Getfeedback provide a "law graduates" reference group as well as "UK general population". (Along with other less relevant comparators.)

The firm can then determine its own cut-off, e.g, "70th percentile law graduate"

The issue with percentiles is that the number of questions is quite small - the standard WG test given by law firms is the less reliable 40-question 'short' test. This should reduce reliability by about √2 compared to a full 80-question test.

According to getfeedback's data, of all their available comparison groups, the group with the highest scores are law graduates, just ahead of senior management, which are in turn ahead of legal professionals.

Pearson claim referring to the WG III (2019) technical manual that the standard error of measurement is only 0.41. I.e., about 68% (1 sd from the mean in a normal distribution) of an individual candidate's scores would be +- 0.41 from the given raw test score https://www.talentlens.com/content/...CTHub/Pearson_Efficacy_Watson-Glaser_2020.pdf

I find this implausible but don't have a copy of the 2019 manual to check.

I did find a copy of WG II (2009)'s manual, which says the SEM is 2.63, which seems more reasonable.

It also provides these statistics:

* standardisation group mean: 27, sd 6
* nursing students 27
* railroad dispatchers 25
* management position applicants 33.5-34.0, sd 4.2
* bachelor's degree holders 27.6

* small group of employees in a company rated by HR as critical thinkers 32 sd 3.9
* comparator group of those rated poorly by HR on same metrics 25.5. sd 6.7

It also says that a score of 35 for the Manager reference group is 86th percentile.

86th percentile is a z-score of 1.08. I estimate s.d of 5, so that would make the manager's group's mean ~30

It's not clear what the mean raw score is for law graduates, but it's evidently over 30.

If we said for example, law graduate mean = 31, sd 5, and UK population 27, 6 then:

25 - 12th/43rd percentile for law graduates/UK population, respectively.
26 - 16th/50th percentile (ditto)
27 - 21/57 (ditto)
28 - 27/63
29 - 34/69
30 - 42/75
31 - 50/80
32 - 58/84
33 - 66/88
34 - 73/91
35 - 79/93
36 - 84/95
37 - 88/97
38 - 92/98
39 - 95/98
40 - 96/98

It's also provided by Pearson that candidates rated below the 30th percentile are 'below average', 30th-70th percentile is 'moderately skilled', and 70+ is 'highly skilled'.

Thus it might be reasonable to reject those below the 30th percentile in comparison to law grads, even though this is fine for the UK population.

It's not entirely clear, further to my point above, what the standard error measurement actually is, but let's just treat our score as ± 2. Thus a candidate who scores what I'm guessing is average for law grads 31/40, could on a bad day score 28, which the firm should reasonably reject.

Similarly if we want to be sure that we score in the 'highly skilled law graduate' category, which I'm saying here is 34/40, then we'd need to consistently score 34+, so a safer target would be 36.

 

[amrita6399]

Does anyone know what free sources are available to practice the WG or available on TCLA? I tried accessing Andrei's and Ram's thread about the WG, however, the link is unavailable.Any help will be useful. Thank you!