Fourth year of applications... perhaps my final year?

Jasmin1777

Standard Member
Dec 20, 2019
9
9
Hello everyone! I have been following The Corporate Law Academy for a few years whilst applying for vacation schemes and training contracts, and would be ever so grateful for some advice on my (potentially) final year of applications.

I have recently graduated from my law degree and LPC at a non russell group University, with first class honours. I live in the North East and I currently have a great non-legal job at a global company based in London (I work from home in the North but I travel regularly). Whilst this is perfect for the time being, I am still determined to pursue a training contract.

However, I have discovered in this cycle of applications that firms are increasingly recruiting solely from their vacation schemes, which will exclude me from applying to many firms as I will not be able to take the time off work. Which makes me wonder if this will be my last cycle of TC applications, if this is a trend that will continue in the future.

I have a bulky CV: I have completed 5 vacation schemes in the last 3 years, worked part-time for 6 years from the age of 16 a premium supermarket chain and completed a number of volunteering and fundraising projects. I also averaged a mark of 76 in my 4 years at university, my only let down on my application being my A Level grades, being ABC (300 UCAS points).

My applications to northern firms have always fallen at the final hurdle: the final interview. Every piece of feedback I have received has been largely positive, which has been frustrating- I am usually told "everyone who met you [during the VS] thought you were great and spoke highly about you and we would encourage you to apply again next year" and the only clear negative feedback I was given was regarding a lack of confidence and about my commercial awareness: e.g. "the work you did was great but just lacked the ability to communicate information to clients in the way a lawyer would. You completed the work as a law student would and you therefore need some more legal experience".

This year I am re-applying to the northern firms that I was rejected from last year. However, I was also looking to broaden my applications into London firms (having enjoyed working in the London office of my current employer),and other, larger northern firms, but I am conscious that I would be wasting my time applying to firms that would automatically filter out my application due to my ABC A-Level results, and my inability to undertake a VS. (I have never passed the online application stage to firms such as Eversheds and Irwin Mitchell for example).

Does anyone have any positive experience/knowledge of firms that I would not be wasting my time on applying to given my circumstances? (My first choice of location would be Leeds/Newcastle and I would definitely move to London if it paid enough for me to relocate).
 
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Lumree

Legendary Member
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Junior Lawyer
  • Jan 17, 2019
    620
    1,068
    Hello everyone! I have been following The Corporate Law Academy for a few years whilst applying for vacation schemes and training contracts, and would be ever so grateful for some advice on my (potentially) final year of applications.

    I have recently graduated from my law degree and LPC at a non russell group University, with first class honours. I live in the North East and I currently have a great non-legal job at a global company based in London (I work from home in the North but I travel regularly). Whilst this is perfect for the time being, I am still determined to pursue a training contract.

    However, I have discovered in this cycle of applications that firms are increasingly recruiting solely from their vacation schemes, which will exclude me from applying to many firms as I will not be able to take the time off work. Which makes me wonder if this will be my last cycle of TC applications, if this is a trend that will continue in the future.

    I have a bulky CV: I have completed 5 vacation schemes in the last 3 years, worked part-time for 6 years from the age of 16 a premium supermarket chain and completed a number of volunteering and fundraising projects. I also averaged a mark of 76 in my 4 years at university, my only let down on my application being my A Level grades, being ABC (300 UCAS points).

    My applications to northern firms have always fallen at the final hurdle: the final interview. Every piece of feedback I have received has been largely positive, which has been frustrating- I am usually told "everyone who met you [during the VS] thought you were great and spoke highly about you and we would encourage you to apply again next year" and the only clear negative feedback I was given was regarding a lack of confidence and about my commercial awareness: e.g. "the work you did was great but just lacked the ability to communicate information to clients in the way a lawyer would. You completed the work as a law student would and you therefore need some more legal experience".

    This year I am re-applying to the northern firms that I was rejected from last year. However, I was also looking to broaden my applications into London firms (having enjoyed working in the London office of my current employer),and other, larger northern firms, but I am conscious that I would be wasting my time applying to firms that would automatically filter out my application due to my ABC A-Level results, and my inability to undertake a VS. (I have never passed the online application stage to firms such as Eversheds and Irwin Mitchell for example).

    Does anyone have any positive experience/knowledge of firms that I would not be wasting my time on applying to given my circumstances? (My first choice of location would be Leeds/Newcastle and I would definitely move to London if it paid enough for me to relocate).

    Your application looks strong and you’ve done incredibly well to get to so far in the process.

    Your A-levels may stop you applying to a few firms but, clearly, you’ve made it beyond the application stage on numerous occasions so it’s not holding you back there. You can check out Chambers’ guide which breaks down each firms requirements: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/l...g-contract/application-and-selection-criteria

    You may also find this page useful as it details the length of the VS: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/law-firms/vacation-schemes/vacation-schemes-compared. You’re right that more firms are recruiting from VS, and I recognise your difficulty with applying for them when you’re working (I am in that position too). However, I
    still think it’s worth applying as you could always negotiate with the VS provider to do a week less to reduce the amount of time you have to take off.

    It’s also worth mentioning that a lot still take direct applications and given your experience and previous VS, you’re in a strong position to apply for those. Unfortunately, I can’t find a list of firms that take from direct TCs - but I expect there’s one somewhere, possibly even on TCLA.

    So don’t be disheartened, keep applying for both VS and TCs if you can!
     
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    Frank

    Valued Member
    Dec 12, 2018
    120
    249
    May I give you my opinion on your post, particularly on the ABC A-levels.

    The thing with your background is that it's very diverse, and you shouldn't believe that the grades you had ages ago will be the chip on your shoulder. Any recruiter who will assess your academic credentials will not put your app into the bin because of the ABC. The 76% average at the Non-Russel group Uni will definitely repair the 300 UCAS points. And come on, let's face it - what difference does an ABC make from ABB/AAB? Grades do not reflect your intelligence at all. Perhaps you had a bad day at the exam or a lack of preparation. The problem is not what we do with our past, but what we want to do with the future.

    I had BBB at the A-Levels, finished my Uni at First-class from a non-Russel Uni, and then did some postgraduate degrees. When I called the firm and literally asked despite the "strict adherence" to your AAA standards, will my application be trashed if I have BBB but graduated within the top 1%? She laughed, said obviously not, and two weeks after my application was submitted, I was invited to the interview at a major US firm.

    Honestly, don't be discouraged by that. Good luck!
     

    A4991

    Star Member
    Nov 20, 2019
    28
    141
    Hello everyone! I have been following The Corporate Law Academy for a few years whilst applying for vacation schemes and training contracts, and would be ever so grateful for some advice on my (potentially) final year of applications.

    I have recently graduated from my law degree and LPC at a non russell group University, with first class honours. I live in the North East and I currently have a great non-legal job at a global company based in London (I work from home in the North but I travel regularly). Whilst this is perfect for the time being, I am still determined to pursue a training contract.

    However, I have discovered in this cycle of applications that firms are increasingly recruiting solely from their vacation schemes, which will exclude me from applying to many firms as I will not be able to take the time off work. Which makes me wonder if this will be my last cycle of TC applications, if this is a trend that will continue in the future.

    I have a bulky CV: I have completed 5 vacation schemes in the last 3 years, worked part-time for 6 years from the age of 16 a premium supermarket chain and completed a number of volunteering and fundraising projects. I also averaged a mark of 76 in my 4 years at university, my only let down on my application being my A Level grades, being ABC (300 UCAS points).

    My applications to northern firms have always fallen at the final hurdle: the final interview. Every piece of feedback I have received has been largely positive, which has been frustrating- I am usually told "everyone who met you [during the VS] thought you were great and spoke highly about you and we would encourage you to apply again next year" and the only clear negative feedback I was given was regarding a lack of confidence and about my commercial awareness: e.g. "the work you did was great but just lacked the ability to communicate information to clients in the way a lawyer would. You completed the work as a law student would and you therefore need some more legal experience".

    This year I am re-applying to the northern firms that I was rejected from last year. However, I was also looking to broaden my applications into London firms (having enjoyed working in the London office of my current employer),and other, larger northern firms, but I am conscious that I would be wasting my time applying to firms that would automatically filter out my application due to my ABC A-Level results, and my inability to undertake a VS. (I have never passed the online application stage to firms such as Eversheds and Irwin Mitchell for example).

    Does anyone have any positive experience/knowledge of firms that I would not be wasting my time on applying to given my circumstances? (My first choice of location would be Leeds/Newcastle and I would definitely move to London if it paid enough for me to relocate).

    Realistically if a firm has set their requirements at AAA-AAB your application won't make it past review stage so I wouldn't waste any time making applications to firms that have strict criteria.

    Yes a lot of firms are now turning towards recruiting solely through the vacation scheme but many firms still offer the direct TC route.

    if I were you, I would focus on the feedback you have received about your commercial awareness and lack of confidence. Everyone can think you are great but if you are not commercially aware and lack confidence you won't survive one day in a city law firm.

    I would for sure apply to the firms that said to apply to them again, making sure you show how you have improved since your last application/vacation scheme.

    You can build up your commercial awareness bit by by everyday. Plenty of resources online on how to do this. Confidence wise, this is something you can only help yourself with unfortunately. The fact that you have done 5 vacation schemes should be a massive confidence boost in itself.

    Don't give up, who knows this year could be your year :)
     
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    Camilla

    Legendary Member
    Trainee
    Highest Rated Member
  • May 16, 2019
    265
    819
    I have made it past review stage for a number of firms with strict criteria. I have C, E, E equivalent in my BTEC and a 2.1 from a non-RG.

    I agree that some firms are probably more strict than others. I would approach it in the same way as Frank, call or email the firm and ask. I wouldn't discount the firm, but you will need to prove yourself in the rest of the application.

    I was contacting firms earlier in the year but stopped because most came back and said they would still look at my application as a whole, so now I don't even look at the A-Level criteria. I suppose I could be wasting my time with some, but I would rather try my luck :D
     

    Jasmin1777

    Standard Member
    Dec 20, 2019
    9
    9
    Thank you for all your replies, it is reassuring to know that some firms are not too strict on the A-Level grade front and that in some cases my application will not be wasted. I will also contact recruiters and ask the question re: grades also.

    I will keep those applications (larger commercial firms) that I could potentially be wasting my time on till I have completed the applications for the firms that I know I will be able to get past the initial application stage.

    If anyone has any advice on any particular newspapers/online news providers that has helped with your commercial awareness then please let me know!
     

    Lumree

    Legendary Member
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    Highest Rated Member
    Junior Lawyer
  • Jan 17, 2019
    620
    1,068
    Thank you for all your replies, it is reassuring to know that some firms are not too strict on the A-Level grade front and that in some cases my application will not be wasted. I will also contact recruiters and ask the question re: grades also.

    I will keep those applications (larger commercial firms) that I could potentially be wasting my time on till I have completed the applications for the firms that I know I will be able to get past the initial application stage.

    If anyone has any advice on any particular newspapers/online news providers that has helped with your commercial awareness then please let me know!

    I’d recommend signing up to Watson’s daily here: https://www.watsonsdaily.com/. He does daily email newsletters on what’s going on in the commercial world. They’re a really useful starting point to decide what’s worth reading up on. From there, I subscribe to Financial Times to 1. Support what I get from the Watson’s updates 2. See what else is going on in the financial markets and companies sphere. I pay a few pounds a month for it but the analysis and articles you get make it worth it in my opinion.
     

    Alice G

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Team
    M&A Bootcamp
    Nov 26, 2018
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    I would also recommend phoning firms and meeting them. It’s possible you’ll make a great impression and that can really work in your favour. Also, If your A levels are slightly lower then I think it’s important to really highlight and hammer home the brilliant things you have done and do currently to make clear to them that you are just as brilliant a candidate. I personally do think that grades matter but so do your work experiences, extra curriculars, language skills and mitigating circumstances too.

    In terms of news etc :
    FT, BBC, The Guardian, The Times, economist
    Wake up to money podcast, FT podcast, economist podcasts, HSF does a good podcast too
    Finimize and of course TCLA’s commercial stories :)

    I use TCLA, wake up to money and the FT. Don’t need to necessarily follow them all daily but if you’re selecting a story to follow for interviews then do read widely. Obviously many publications will have different opinions so it’s good to get a holistic impression!
     

    Jasmin1777

    Standard Member
    Dec 20, 2019
    9
    9
    I’d recommend signing up to Watson’s daily here: https://www.watsonsdaily.com/. He does daily email newsletters on what’s going on in the commercial world. They’re a really useful starting point to decide what’s worth reading up on. From there, I subscribe to Financial Times to 1. Support what I get from the Watson’s updates 2. See what else is going on in the financial markets and companies sphere. I pay a few pounds a month for it but the analysis and articles you get make it worth it in my opinion.

    I would also recommend phoning firms and meeting them. It’s possible you’ll make a great impression and that can really work in your favour. Also, If your A levels are slightly lower then I think it’s important to really highlight and hammer home the brilliant things you have done and do currently to make clear to them that you are just as brilliant a candidate. I personally do think that grades matter but so do your work experiences, extra curriculars, language skills and mitigating circumstances too.

    In terms of news etc :
    FT, BBC, The Guardian, The Times, economist
    Wake up to money podcast, FT podcast, economist podcasts, HSF does a good podcast too
    Finimize and of course TCLA’s commercial stories :)

    I use TCLA, wake up to money and the FT. Don’t need to necessarily follow them all daily but if you’re selecting a story to follow for interviews then do read widely. Obviously many publications will have different opinions so it’s good to get a holistic impression!

    These suggestions are great thank you! I will get started and hopefully by interview stage in summer I will be able to show the firms how much I have improved over the year.
     

    Alice G

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Team
    M&A Bootcamp
    Nov 26, 2018
    1,731
    4,183
    These suggestions are great thank you! I will get started and hopefully by interview stage in summer I will be able to show the firms how much I have improved over the year.
    You’d be surprised how much you can learn and gain just month on month- it really is incredible how much 15 mins a day can help!! All the best to you :)
     

    Paralegal178

    Esteemed Member
    Future Trainee
    May 27, 2019
    84
    156
    Your A levels are totally fine! Especially given your first and work experience.

    I have BCC (with mit circs) and a 2:1 from a non-RG and have made it to AC with firms asking for AAB. I have an upcoming AC and a final interview with two magic circle firms. I don’t think A levels carry as much weight once you’re a graduate as they have much more recent grades to assess you on.

    Please don’t give up! Find what works for you with the commercial awareness aspect. Would agree with the websites/podcasts others have mentioned but would also add Watson’s Daily - super quick and easy to read and provides context in relation to how issues affect law firms.

    Also try to attend LegalCheek events as they really help with commercial awareness and provide networking opportunities.

    Keep going and best of luck ☺️
     

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