TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

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James Carrabino

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Hey guys, I need some advice because I'm not really sure what to do. I've been lucky in securing a fair few interviews this cycle but I've been unsuccessful after all of them. I think my commercial awareness is generally okay, and I don't think I do badly in researching the firms.

I think I fall short in answering the more casual questions (e.g. tell us about yourself) and maintaining a rapport with the interviewers. Basically, I'm not the most social, charming and confident person and I know that commercial law is a 'people' job. Does anyone have any advice on what I can do to improve? Or any success stories of people who weren't that confident still securing TCs to give me a boost of confidence? I'm losing hope but I really am determined to secure a TC in commercial law. Thanks in advance
Hi @commercialhoe-yer, it is great to hear from you - you sound like a very thoughtful person and I am sure that you absolutely have what it takes to get a TC! I definitely know shy/introverted people who have received TC offers and they are often the smartest and kindest of the bunch! Remember that the people interviewing you may have lacked confidence themselves at one point; that could subconsciously warm them to someone more like themselves. There is definitely an element of the luck of the draw when it comes to who your interviewers are.

I had the same idea in mind as you when I attended interviews and vac schemes. I remember identifying a whole range of charming, well-presented individuals at the beginning of the day or week, whom I was certain would be a shoo-in! This did not come from a place of annoyance, as they were often lovely people who seemed very knowledgeable - it simply made me feel like I was competing for one of the 'remaining' spots 🤣

Often I was completely surprised when I found out who ended up getting the offers - not because I think that those who did receive an offer didn't deserve it, but because I had formulated an image of the perfect lawyer in my mind and the individuals who fit this description did not always end up getting offers.

The point here is that everyone on your interview (including you) will be exceptionally well qualified. Ultimately, it will come down to how well prepared you are for your interview and whether you are a good fit with the firm. Many practice areas have significantly less client contact than others and being a 'people' person does not necessarily mean being able to work the room; it just means that you are kind, respectful and reliable to those who are entrusting you with their work. As long as you show up to your interviews with a lot of knowledge about the firm and genuine interest in its work, then you will have put yourself in the best position possible to get a TC. I really would not try to be someone who you are not.

Nevertheless, it is definitely possible to prepare answers to the 'casual' questions so that you do not feel caught out in your interview. You can find a list of some such questions which may arise here.

There are also some ways to work on building rapport, which I have written about here. Do let me know if this is all helpful and whether you have any other questions about it :)
 

NaimK

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May 6, 2019
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hey guys would really appreciate some insight here...

I'm applying to Gibson Dunn and I need to write a cover letter of max 650 words (which is very short).

The firm basically have said on the app form that it wants you to cover the following topics:

  1. what attracts you to Gibson Dunn;
  2. why you want to become a solicitor;
  3. an outstanding personal achievement which added value to either your academic or working environment;
  4. details of any prizes, scholarships, interests, positions of responsibility and any other noteworthy achievements that will support your application.

Naturally dividing these topics equally means you only have about 150~160 words per topic. However, I would think answers on why Gibson Dunn would maybe represent a larger proportion of my answer. I'm not sure.

If anyone has ever written this cover letter, some recommendations would be helpful.

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Asil Ahmad

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    hey guys would really appreciate some insight here...

    I'm applying to Gibson Dunn and I need to write a cover letter of max 650 words (which is very short).

    The firm basically have said on the app form that it wants you to cover the following topics:

    1. what attracts you to Gibson Dunn;
    2. why you want to become a solicitor;
    3. an outstanding personal achievement which added value to either your academic or working environment;
    4. details of any prizes, scholarships, interests, positions of responsibility and any other noteworthy achievements that will support your application.

    Naturally dividing these topics equally means you only have about 150~160 words per topic. However, I would think answers on why Gibson Dunn would maybe represent a larger proportion of my answer. I'm not sure.

    If anyone has ever written this cover letter, some recommendations would be helpful.

    🙏
    I decided 200 for why commercial law, 200 for why Gibson and 200 for extra curriculum activities but is this wrong.
     

    NaimK

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    May 6, 2019
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    I decided 200 for why commercial law, 200 for why Gibson and 200 for extra curriculum activities but is this wrong.

    Idk if you're 'wrong' per se but you inspired me to re-read the criteria and it actually says you should include SOME of the following topics. So I do not need to address all 4. I think I might stick to your format because that one achievement thing seems so out of place and will burden the word count.

    My typical cover letter is why commercial law, why X firm and why me. I think I can just replace the 'why me' component with the extra curricular.
     

    James Carrabino

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    hey guys would really appreciate some insight here...

    I'm applying to Gibson Dunn and I need to write a cover letter of max 650 words (which is very short).

    The firm basically have said on the app form that it wants you to cover the following topics:

    1. what attracts you to Gibson Dunn;
    2. why you want to become a solicitor;
    3. an outstanding personal achievement which added value to either your academic or working environment;
    4. details of any prizes, scholarships, interests, positions of responsibility and any other noteworthy achievements that will support your application.

    Naturally dividing these topics equally means you only have about 150~160 words per topic. However, I would think answers on why Gibson Dunn would maybe represent a larger proportion of my answer. I'm not sure.

    If anyone has ever written this cover letter, some recommendations would be helpful.

    🙏
    Great question @NaimK! The first thing I would say is that it is never worth being too prescriptive with these things - if one section is longer than another then that is not a problem :)

    It is probably good to think about how you are roughly going to apportion each section though, as you have been doing. I think that the breakdown they provide you with actually closely mirrors the standard cover letter structure (1. Why law? 2. Why this firm? 3. Why you?) although the order is different and they have been slightly more prescriptive about what you should include in the 'Why you?' section.

    As a result, I think that you could perhaps split your answer into thirds, with points 3 and 4 together combining to form around a third of your answer, or a little more, given that the single achievement of importance will probably not take up too much space. How about ~400 words for points 1 and 2 combined and ~250 words for 3 and 4 combined? Again, it does not matter if you veer away from this at all, but I generally agree with you that it is good to write in depth about your motivations!
     
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    NaimK

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    May 6, 2019
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    Great question @NaimK! The first thing I would say is that it is never worth being too prescriptive with these things - if one section is longer than another then that is not a problem :)

    It is probably good to think about how you are roughly going to apportion each section though, as you have been doing. I think that the breakdown they provide you with actually closely mirrors the standard cover letter structure (1. Why law? 2. Why this firm? 3. Why you?) although the order is different and they have been slightly more prescriptive about what you should include in the 'Why you?' section.

    As a result, I think that you could perhaps split your answer into thirds, with points 3 and 4 together combining to form around a third of your answer, or a little more, given that the single achievement of importance will probably not take up too much space. How about ~400 words for points 1 and 2 combined and ~250 words for 3 and 4 combined? Again, it does not matter if you veer away from this at all, but I generally agree with you that it is good to write in depth about your motivations!

    Much appreciated, James. I was thinking that the extra curricular could be written in a way where I talk about the attributes gained from those hobbies etc. and that way I can leverage those attributes to indirectly answer the 'why me' section that isn't explicitly included in the firm's criteria.

    No idea if that made any sense lol...but it makes sense to me. So thank you!
     

    James Carrabino

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    Much appreciated, James. I was thinking that the extra curricular could be written in a way where I talk about the attributes gained from those hobbies etc. and that way I can leverage those attributes to indirectly answer the 'why me' section that isn't explicitly included in the firm's criteria.

    No idea if that made any sense lol...but it makes sense to me. So thank you!
    @NaimK your question does make sense! I would caution you to avoid answering the question you want to answer and turning it into more of a paragraph abut your competencies than a paragraph about your achievements they are asking you for. That said, it would definitely enhance your application if you draw some of your attributes out of your achievements - you have to do it deftly, though, so as not to be perceived as failing to answer the question. I hope that helps :)
     
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    average_jo123

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    Hi everyone,

    This is for those that have completed Freshfields' WG test for their direct TC app. Did you guys receive a confirmation email after submitting it? I have received one and I'm worried something went wrong. Have emailed grad recruitment but they don't open until Monday.

    Would help put my nerves at ease if I knew if this was normal or if something went wrong.

    Thanks
    Hi, not sure if this is helpful since I applied for the summer vac scheme (not the TC) but I'm assuming the system they use for WG will be the same for both opportunities.

    I didn't receive any email confirmation after I completed it. I asked my friend who also applied and she said she didn't get any confirmation either. So I think it's normal to not have an email confirmation.
     

    iolitelegal

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    Jan 16, 2022
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    While I agree with your sentiment, it's probably healthier for people to let some their insecurities and fears out in a supportive and safe environment. The reality of the situation is that it's a stressful, long and pretty brutal application process - being in a forum where others can sympathise & relate lightens the load. I think everyone has their own ways of coping with stress - in the end, of course, doing your best is the only thing you can do as you say.
    Yeah, I hear that. But I think a lot of it comes across - for lack of an appropriate euphemism - a bit 'needy' or adolescent. If you can't deal with the stress synonymous with the law application process (on your own accord) then you probably won't make a very good lawyer to start with. In short, yes it's a bit stressful, but it's nothing like the stressors you'll encounter during practice.
     

    Rob93

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    Yeah, I hear that. But I think a lot of it comes across - for lack of an appropriate euphemism - a bit 'needy' or adolescent. If you can't deal with the stress synonymous with the law application process (on your own accord) then you probably won't make a very good lawyer to start with. In short, yes it's a bit stressful, but it's nothing like the stressors you'll encounter during practice.
    The practice of law is famously made up of people who don't handle the stressors of practice - hence the high attrition and endemic mental health crises.

    Also, people don't 'deal with stress' in a vacuum, and most have outlets of some kind. Having a bit of a moan in what should be a supportive and understanding environment is as good a coping mechanism as the next, especially if you can't afford therapy.
     

    James Carrabino

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    Yeah, I hear that. But I think a lot of it comes across - for lack of an appropriate euphemism - a bit 'needy' or adolescent. If you can't deal with the stress synonymous with the law application process (on your own accord) then you probably won't make a very good lawyer to start with. In short, yes it's a bit stressful, but it's nothing like the stressors you'll encounter during practice.
    I know many lawyers who say that the application process is the hardest thing they had to go through - of course there is stress later on, but in my opinion nothing quite compares to the feeling that your career (and life) is not on track yet! That said, I am not yet in practice so you may well be right! If you are, though, then I think that the stress of the application process at least somewhat helped prepare me for what is to come 🤣
     

    iolitelegal

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    Jan 16, 2022
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    I know many lawyers who say that the application process is the hardest thing they had to go through - of course there is stress later on, but in my opinion nothing quite compares to the feeling that your career (and life) is not on track yet! That said, I am not yet in practice so you may well be right! If you are, though, then I think that the stress of the application process at least somewhat helped prepare me for what is to come 🤣
    I'm currently practicing as an analyst and wish to convert. I'm doing my applications around my current role (which is highly stressful) and it's a walk in the park compared, but that's just my view. I've been to hell and back before, so I guess I must just be used to it.
     
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    Sfernan21

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    Jan 26, 2021
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    This might be a silly question but for the question in the Pennington’s app saying ‘Explain why you are applying to the location you have chosen?’ (250 words)

    Am I okay to briefly explain my reasons, or is this question expecting more than this? The reason I ask is because other firms I have applied to who have asked this question the word limit is 150 max
    I got through to an AC and I wrote about 140 words. Just be clear and succinct!
     
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