TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Jessica Booker]

TL;DR - Is it ok to ask to be transferred to direct TC route a month after accepting a VS offer?

Hi hive minds, I am a career changer and I need some advice here - I just got offered a summer VS today I genuinely didn't expect myself to get this VS because I had a very disheartening winter vs cycle, so I am feeling over the moon! On the other hand, I also applied to many non-legal jobs as a plan B (because the winter cycle was so traumatizing), and not long ago I found myself a role within a well-known PE fund (!), which I already signed.

I don't think I can definitively accept/turn down this VS now, for two reasons:
1 - I can't find any clause in my new contract that explicitly mentions part time/second job (kudos to the HSF lawyers drafting my 50 pages contract+NDA - it was a pain to read lolol), but I hesitate to contact my new company's HR regarding this before I start next month, as I don't want to cross them and look uncommitted to my new job.
2 - While law is still my plan A, I am not sure if a TC (let alone a VS) at this specific law firm is worth me giving up this new PE fund job. When I applied to this law firm I hadn't land my new job, so I haven't compared them before and I don't want to come to a quick decision w/o careful considerations. Ideally, I want to start my new job first so I have more info to make an informed decision.

The said law firm has a direct TC route which is currently accepting applications, so my plan is to accept the VS first, and ask to be transferred to direct TC if I really can't take time off for the VS in the end - how much more does this annoy a law firm than me telling them now that I need to transfer to a direct TC? @Jessica Booker

Thank you so much in advance for your advice!

If you are working in a well known PE fund, you are likely going to need to disclose it even from a conflict of interest perspective, even if there is nothing in your contract about working second jobs etc. You might find there is not something in your contract, but that a internal policy may prevent it to (you may find your contract loosely talks about adhering to company policies).

I personally wouldn't accept the VS only to then ask to be transferred to a direct TC. I would just explain you have started a new job and you will find it difficult to take time off from that to attend the VS, and therefore could you be converted to a direct TC route instead.

 

[Homer]

If there are ultimately firms you want to work for that you haven't secured VS with and can apply this year to, then I would recommend doing so. It just sounds like you can be selective as to who those might be given your three+ vacation schemes you have coming up, and given how busy you will be with your studies and your vacations schemes (don't underestimate how much of your time/energy will be taken up by these too).

If it was me, I'd just be strategic about it - identify the deadlines after my exams so I could focus on them, select the firms that I would only choose over the firms that I have VS with, and make a shortlist from there.

You can definitely leverage your upcoming schemes though.

Even for those with multiple schemes, I recommend making some backup direct TC applications to.

thank you for your valuable insight and suggestions.

 

[Legalmel_99]

Anyone heard back from DACB post VI? I remember last year they took ages 🤷🏻‍♀️

I assume it’ll be same

 

[Phoenix for all]

If you are working in a well known PE fund, you are likely going to need to disclose it even from a conflict of interest perspective, even if there is nothing in your contract about working second jobs etc. You might find there is not something in your contract, but that a internal policy may prevent it to (you may find your contract loosely talks about adhering to company policies).

I personally wouldn't accept the VS only to then ask to be transferred to a direct TC. I would just explain you have started a new job and you will find it difficult to take time off from that to attend the VS, and therefore could you be converted to a direct TC route instead.

Thanks for the advice Jessica! would it be better to do that over email or should I give HR a call?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks for the advice Jessica! would it be better to do that over email or should I give HR a call?

I'd call them - these things are much easier to portray and discuss in a call rather than via email.

 

[fruiterloopers]

How does everyone here find conversion rates from VS to TC

 

[Jessica Booker]

How does everyone here find conversion rates from VS to TC

Even if there are stats out there, I would take them with a massive pinch of salt.

I have seen conversion rates bounce up and down 25% due to a mixture of circumstances. Just because a conversion rate was X last year, does not mean it would easily be that again.

 

[fruiterloopers]

Even if there are stats out there, I would take them with a massive pinch of salt.

I have seen conversion rates bounce up and down 25% due to a mixture of circumstances. Just because a conversion rate was X last year, does not mean it would easily be that again.

That's understandable - thank you Jessica!

 

[TC fiend]

Does anyone know any good resources for the general process/steps followed during litigation by lawyers? I have seen a lot of this for M&A but can’t find stuff for litigation?

I know it’s been a while haha but I remembered someone had asked this a while ago and just wanted to highlight that if you have access to Practical Law at all (perhaps through your studies) there are some amazing resources on understanding how the litigation process works. Alternatively you can access the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) which sets it out as well. I’d recommend Googling “litigation procedure fast track/multi-track” if you want to get a better understanding what that process might look like. Let me know if you have any other questions

 

[WeRegretToInformYou]

any body knows how long do forsters and gateley take to respond after interview ?

 

[spamelinazoid]

any body knows how long do forsters and gateley take to respond after interview ?

I've been wondering as well, they said to expect a decision in April at the AC but I've met several people who already have VS offers :/

 

[H12345678]

Anyone heard back from DACB post VI? I remember last year they took ages 🤷🏻‍♀️

I asked GR and they said they would send out AC invites in early June x

 

[Lawgrad]

Anyone heard back from pwc?

 

[Embo]

Still nothing from V&E - anyone heard anything back yet?

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Thank you for replying and being so kind <3 Hearing how you guys had a similar journey and now are having more successful cycles is so so inspiring and massively helped me not feel alone in this!! Decided after a sleep and reading these messages, will continue looking for jobs and continue trying to apply for TCs and VSs over the next year. (@Asil Ahmad - completely relate and here if you ever need a chat or a rant). Will definitely revisit my applications and work out points where I went wrong and how I can make myself a stronger candidate going forward. Grateful for this forum in reminding me that there is always a chance even on the days when you do just want to give up on a career in law lol

Yes no worries that is okay.

It is honestly so stressful getting a paralegal role I honestly think getting a paralegal role with less than 6 months paralegal experience is as hard as getting getting a TC or even harder than getting a TC.

But this is my opinion from my experience of applying for paralegal roles.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

The process will often be frustrating for the recruiter too.

Unless they are exclusively recruiting for the role (unlikely), the role could be filled by other agencies or even be filled internally or by direct applicants by the firm.

They often don’t have an update because the client hasn’t updated them either, and they will be equally frustrated to hear the role has been filled and they haven’t been informed.

I know the process is opaque and frustrating, but I’d encourage you to reconsider your position on this and not give up and still go through agencies when required. Applying directly to a firm will not give you any guarantees of hearing back either unfortunately. I would continue applying and then just step back from the process of chasing up as that is the process that is stressing you out. After applying, you can be relatively passive about it, but at least you are in the running. Completely giving up will only result in the certainty of you not securing a role.

Thank you for this helpful response.

Yes I agree with your point about there being other agencies that the client company will be in contact with.

Yes I agree with that recruiters will be frustrated with the role being filled also as it is a sale or commission gone from them.

For those who don't know recruitment consultants make a sale every time they put a candidate in a role and they sometimes get a commission for it. I know this because I tried to get into recruitment.

Yes I will continue to apply but it is getting really stressful for me as you sometimes reach that point where your confidence goes down as it is the same thing everyday.

But for anyone who has got a paralegal role straight after a law degree with no paralegal experience would love to hear how you got that paral;egal role.

 

[TC fiend]

Thank you for this helpful response.

Yes I agree with your point about there being other agencies that the client company will be in contact with.

Yes I agree with that recruiters will be frustrated with the role being filled also as it is a sale or commission gone from them.

For those who don't know recruitment consultants make a sale every time they put a candidate in a role and they sometimes get a commission for it. I know this because I tried to get into recruitment.

Yes I will continue to apply but it is getting really stressful for me as you sometimes reach that point where your confidence goes down as it is the same thing everyday.

But for anyone who has got a paralegal role straight after a law degree with no paralegal experience would love to hear how you got that paral;egal role.

I secured my first paralegal role out of my LLM by signing up to The Law Support Group and leveraging my language skills. That got me into a role at a MC firm which was initially doc review, but I managed to network and get myself plenty of other work and join a lot of social/D&I initiatives. Managed to leverage that experience over 2 years and get my current position as a paralegal at a small US firm.

 

[Abii]

Thank you for this helpful response.

Yes I agree with your point about there being other agencies that the client company will be in contact with.

Yes I agree with that recruiters will be frustrated with the role being filled also as it is a sale or commission gone from them.

For those who don't know recruitment consultants make a sale every time they put a candidate in a role and they sometimes get a commission for it. I know this because I tried to get into recruitment.

Yes I will continue to apply but it is getting really stressful for me as you sometimes reach that point where your confidence goes down as it is the same thing everyday.

But for anyone who has got a paralegal role straight after a law degree with no paralegal experience would love to hear how you got that paral;egal role.

My first paralegal role was a 3 month paid internship straight out my LLB, in-house with a large global telecoms company working on corporate and commercial matters, it would have been extended/continued had I not gone on to do masters in a completely unrelated area of law. I then went straight into a full time paralegal role in-house commercial law in another huge household recognised company again straight from my masters.

I leveraged my transferable skills having had a voluntary role and a full time job during my full time studies and keeping a part time job alongside the full time internship and meeting targets in work and keeping high grades - all 2.1s and Firsts throughout my degree.

Thats not to say that I also haven't had a huge number of rejections or just non-response to paralegal applications in that time because I have and now I seem to have the opposite problem of too much experience for entry level roles but not enough for the more senior roles.

 

[spamelinazoid]

Just got the Forsters PFO, exactly 4 weeks after my AC

 

[j.s.cox]

Thank you for this helpful response.

Yes I agree with your point about there being other agencies that the client company will be in contact with.

Yes I agree with that recruiters will be frustrated with the role being filled also as it is a sale or commission gone from them.

For those who don't know recruitment consultants make a sale every time they put a candidate in a role and they sometimes get a commission for it. I know this because I tried to get into recruitment.

Yes I will continue to apply but it is getting really stressful for me as you sometimes reach that point where your confidence goes down as it is the same thing everyday.

But for anyone who has got a paralegal role straight after a law degree with no paralegal experience would love to hear how you got that paral;egal role.

I'm a non-law graduate who is currently doing the PGDL I managed to secure a paralegal role, but I didn't use any recruiters. I found a boutique firm who worked in a field I was interested in and emailed the boss asking if he would be willing to let me gain some work experience there. When I was asked for how long I wanted the experience, I basically told them that I wanted to stay as long as they would have me. After a while working there, I asked if they would be willing to take me on as a paralegal and they gave me the job.

I know it's an unconventional route to a paralegal role, but I really think you have to just put yourself out there and be happy to gain experience rather than paralegal experience specifically. Hope that helps and sorry you've had a rough time of it with looking for a role!