Hi everyone, I am unsure that this is the right thread, but after failing to transform a VS in a TC, I asked for detailed feedback. The motivations I was provided with when they actually called me, did not make any sense and were so vague that I was really bothered ("you did not manage to demonstrate enough enthusiasm"....like ok... I can't even really tell you how ridiculous it was...).
But the weird thing is that when I asked for specific feedback, they e-mailed back saying that they could reply to my email or arrange a call, the choice was completely mine.
Now, I work over 50 hours a week and I spent way too much time to go through their assessment process and to attend a scheme there - I am also residing abroad and the whole experience was very difficult for me already...I am frustrated and I would rather hear from them by email. So I send them my preference and they reply saying that becuase my email address is external and in order to comply with their data protection policy it is best to arrange a call.
I am really annoyed now. What are they talking about? Is it so hard to provide proper feedback by email? Does anyone else have similar experience or were unable to get written feebdack?
I swear my impression given this approach is that their assessment criteria are non existent and their decision-making process is random. I am so angry....looking for reassurance :/
@sh.95 I am really sorry to hear this; it is always awful failing to convert a VS and I can understand that are seeking thorough and reasoned feedback. I am not sure that you should worry too much about whether or not they give you a phone call or send an e-mail, however.
I remember when applying that I felt the exact same way as you, especially after one firm where I attended a vac scheme (and was unsuccessful in getting a TC offer) sent a simple rejection e-mail stating that it was unable to offer feedback due to the number of applicants!
But then I did receive feedback from some firms post-VS, post-AC, post-VI and even post-application form and I realised that whilst feedback can sometimes seem useful, it often is not and it can be very unsatisfying (as you seem to be facing) or even counter-productive.
First of all, feedback is often not transferrable between firms. The firm which gave me post-application form feedback told me that I should have related my answer to 'Why commercial law?' back to the firm, whilst I know that other firms explicitly do not want candidates to do this, emphasising that applicants should only answer the exact question being asked. I think that feedback is only really helpful where there is some sort of standard for a clear 'before and after' comparison.
Indeed,
feedback can be very useful where there is a clear metric being assessed, such as in a psychometric test or perhaps even in competency answers involving a formulaic list of questions (such as in a Video Interview) where the goal is to assess whether candidates identify and demonstrate relevant competencies.
Feedback can be unhelpful, however, as it becomes more subjective in environments like an interview or vacation scheme. Remember that law is an inherently human profession and as much as firms try to standardise the process, there is no true standard and everything boils down to whether you, as a person, are who they are looking for at that point in time. Things that factor in heavily are whether recruiters think you would fit into the firm culture or whether your interviewers or the people reading your application *like* you from what they know about you. Consequently, I think that the quality of the feedback is unlikely to be very different by e-mail than what they would give you over the phone.
I have two anecdotal examples that may illustrate why firms have a tough time coming up with proper feedback to give to candidates:
- A firm told my friend after an AC that he performed excellently in his interview but that in the trainee meet-and-greet session he was reported to have asked what it felt like to see a deal in the newspaper after working on it, which led them to wonder what his real motivation for pursuing law was. The reason they gave him struck me as rather dubious - would one question like this during an informal chat with trainees really scupper an offer if everything else were excellent? Or was the issue that the firm simply preferred other candidates for a variety of more intangible reasons and had to actively come up with a concrete reason purely for the sake of the feedback? This sounds like it could be similar to the comment about 'lack of enthusiasm' that you received, as if the firm was simply searching for a piece of feedback to give you, which obviously isn't very helpful.
- On the opposite side of the spectrum, a firm offered me post-vac scheme feedback where the head of graduate recruitment told me in a zoom call that I did very well throughout the vac scheme, although my educational background (I was in the middle of a master's degree in music) made them question whether I really wanted to become a lawyer and this worried them as they did not want the possibility of their trainees leaving law after qualifying. In my opinion, this is a completely fair reason to select trainees and it was probably the most honest piece of feedback I received... but it was not feedback on my performance. Nothing I could have done during the vac scheme would have changed this concern and so there was no advice I could take with me going forward, but for the fact I should maybe drop out of the process if my educational background was going to stop me obtaining a Training Contract. Luckily, I committed to self-reflection on controlling the things that I could control and improving in areas where I felt that I could do better, and I ended up succeeding in the process (after 40 applications)
I do not know what the exact data issue is surrounding a phone call vs an e-mail in your situation, but I think that you will have a tough time finding really useful feedback either way. The fact of the matter is that whilst many candidates will fall down for a 'mistake' of some sort, the number who do not make any such mistakes will still far exceed the number of interview spaces available. Also, what if a candidate does make such a mistake but the rest of their application is stellar and the firm really wants to interview them?
In some cases, feedback may only lead to further frustration for candidates who believe that they did not make the mistake they were told they made, who do not understand how to implement the feedback, or who feel that they did in fact implement feedback from another firm and that now they are being told something contradictory. At the end of the day, the most important thing is self-reflection and not a value judgement by a stranger, in my opinion!