TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[4275purplerainbow]

It looks like my application season for this year might be over with no VS/TC offers. I have good A-Level marks (4xA*) and a (non-law) degree from Oxford and lots of extra-curriculars. I think my biggest weakness in my applications is a lack of legal-specific experience, for most of university I believed that I wanted to work as an economist so I didn't accumulate much of the CV law-stuff.

After doing lots of research over the last few months, I am certain that I want to work in commercial and competition law so will reapply next year. Does anyone have any tips of what I could do between now and then, as a graduate student, to improve my chances for next year. Specifically how can one gain the relevant experience? It feels really hard to get any real insight into commercial work when you're not already working at a commercial firm (a very draining catch-22).

Good luck everyone!

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

I agree with this quite strongly. They did not run many interviews. Other firms like that provide feedback. E.g. Wilkie and White & Case. It's really not great at all.

They say online that they run around 40 first stage interviews and they’d only have to provide feedback to unsuccessful interviews so I’m guessing around 20 people at this stage and 10 at the next - sure they could find 10 minutes to gives us some feedback, it’s really not that hard.

I might do a SAR lol

 

[radssss]

Has anyone heard back from vwv or know when they will get back to applicants?

 

[Harvey Specter]

I don't think law firms are in the business of lying, plus things may have changed over the years.

I don't see why it is a surprise that one of the most prestigious law firms in the world, with only 15 places, don't tend to hire from a university that is ranked 80th in the world. Universities are not a private school - they are a symbol of high academic perfomance and commitments to extra curriculars from an early age. People of all backgrounds have worked hard for a place at a top university, not handed it based on socio-economic factors. The biggest companies paying £1,000 p/h expect their lawyers to be educated at the best institutions. Of course there are exceptional circumstances, but that's the norm and will stay the norm.

I agree with you. That’s kind of the point that I was making. A firm shouldn’t claim to have no minimum entry requirements, or that they assess applications holistically, or that they adopt university or CV-blind recruitment, when in reality, they are after a particular kind of future trainee. I don’t think it’s unusual or unreasonable at all for a firm like Ropes & Gray to want to hire from certain elite RG universities, but for the firm to make it seem like they don’t adopt this policy (when it very clearly does), is highly misleading. 🤷🏾‍♂️

I’m not sure what you mean here: “universities are not a private school - they are a symbol of high academic performance and commitments to extra curriculars from a young age. People of all backgrounds have worked hard for a place at a top university, not handed it based on socio-economic factors.” Some people come from backgrounds where they don’t have access to certain resources due to financial constraints. That’s the reality for the majority of the UK population. As a result, these top RG universities make contextual offers. To imply someone who comes from this background (like myself) had their university place handed to them because of their background is crazy lmao. I had 3 RG uni offers based on the fact I had the grades. 🙂​

 

[AlegalA]

I don't think law firms are in the business of lying, plus things may have changed over the years.

I don't see why it is a surprise that one of the most prestigious law firms in the world, with only 15 places, don't tend to hire from a university that is ranked 80th in the world. Universities are not a private school - they are a symbol of high academic perfomance and commitments to extra curriculars from an early age. People of all backgrounds have worked hard for a place at a top university, not handed it based on socio-economic factors. The biggest companies paying £1,000 p/h expect their lawyers to be educated at the best institutions. Of course there are exceptional circumstances, but that's the norm and will stay the norm.

UOB is ranked 11th or 12th in the UK. I don't think you can really say it's not one of the top universities. Also, a lot of the top 100 are US universities. I'm gonna go out on a limb to say most US students are not coming to the UK to apply to a US firm following their law degree, but rather applying in the US directly, therefore the World ranking doesn't seem as relevant as the UK one.

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

30+ apps and just endless rejections. Is there really any point anymore? I’m 27 and just feeling dejected. I’ve done several vac schemes previously. But they don’t seem to count. So few direct TC routes too. What is the point of continuing?

I feel you mate. I am constantly telling myself that it’s a game of luck to an extent and I just need the one yes to get there but it’s very hard not to feel like the universe and system is against you. No advice really, just saying I feel you.

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

My fellow Paul, Weiss stragglers - anyone hear back yet?

Nope! Also nothing from Ropes & Gray… pls acknowledge my existence law firms

 

[klax]

It looks like my application season for this year might be over with no VS/TC offers. I have good A-Level marks (4xA*) and a (non-law) degree from Oxford and lots of extra-curriculars. I think my biggest weakness in my applications is a lack of legal-specific experience, for most of university I believed that I wanted to work as an economist so I didn't accumulate much of the CV law-stuff.

After doing lots of research over the last few months, I am certain that I want to work in commercial and competition law so will reapply next year. Does anyone have any tips of what I could do between now and then, as a graduate student, to improve my chances for next year. Specifically how can one gain the relevant experience? It feels really hard to get any real insight into commercial work when you're not already working at a commercial firm (a very draining catch-22).

Good luck everyone!

I've found the best way to break into a new area is always personal connections.

1) Reach out to anyone you can think of who might be in law or know someone in law (maybe from your economist exp.) and ask them to put you in touch. Even on nights out/normal social events (& legal events tbf)- you never know who might be able to help, so mention your aspirations with people you genuinely get on with and see where it goes. Talking to someone who works at the firm (eg on LinkedIn) is rlly helpful bc even if they only give you one piece of advice you can name drop them in interviews which helps the interviewer picture you at the firm.

2) In interviews, don't be afraid to disclose personal things if relevant. My paralegal interview at a top London law firm went rlly well bc I shared a health condition as my 'challenging situation' that I got through, and the interviewer had the same health condition…

You're clearly smart and hard-working so you got this, keep going!

 

[trainee4u]

UOB is ranked 11th or 12th in the UK. I don't think you can really say it's not one of the top universities. Also, a lot of the top 100 are US universities. I'm gonna go out on a limb to say most US students are not coming to the UK to apply to a US firm following their law degree, but rather applying in the US directly, therefore the World ranking doesn't seem as relevant as the UK one.

I don't think the QS university rankings are considered relevant in the UK. They are very key for example for applicants from foreign countries seeking scholarships where there is a requirement for "top 100 worldwide" or whatever.

However, I would avoid citing them in the UK. They are deliberately gamed by universities seeking foreign students and do not necessarily use relevant measures.

In addition, while undergraduate university is a strong indication of academic ability, the fact is about half (?) of English corporate lawyers do their legal education at a degree mill (Ulaw, BPP), so the idea that corporate clients are concerned that you learned about Shakespeare (or whatever your undergraduate degree was in) from the best profs at the best uni is a little unlikely. Plus general rankings don't reflect individual subject expertise.

 

[Tintin06]

27 is still very young in the grand scheme of a career. I'm 25 and only decided to switch to law last year. I have a vacation scheme this summer, but realistically, it could be years before I secure a training contract, and I’m okay with that—because when I finally land the role, it will be the best feeling after working so hard. If this is your dream career, you must pursue it for as long as it takes to get there. I have faith in you—if you've secured vacation schemes before, it’s clear that you possess qualities firms find attractive. Don't give up!

That’s all fair enough of course. Interview preparation time just feels wasted. That, and getting your hopes up. Vac schemes don’t feel helpful now. I want to give up, honestly.

 

[James Wakefield]

So for everyone, like me, still waiting for R&G, it seems they send out a lot of rejections and then wait a week before sending out more rejections/AC invites, looking at last year. Thinking maybe our apps are potentially reviewed a second time? So could be a while until hearing back.

 

[Maddy]

Might be of interest to anyone waiting to hear back from P,W - when I selected my interview slot, there were only three slots available. But they could obv open up more slots

Did you receive the invite today?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

It looks like my application season for this year might be over with no VS/TC offers. I have good A-Level marks (4xA*) and a (non-law) degree from Oxford and lots of extra-curriculars. I think my biggest weakness in my applications is a lack of legal-specific experience, for most of university I believed that I wanted to work as an economist so I didn't accumulate much of the CV law-stuff.

After doing lots of research over the last few months, I am certain that I want to work in commercial and competition law so will reapply next year. Does anyone have any tips of what I could do between now and then, as a graduate student, to improve my chances for next year. Specifically how can one gain the relevant experience? It feels really hard to get any real insight into commercial work when you're not already working at a commercial firm (a very draining catch-22).

Good luck everyone!

Hiya @4275purplerainbow

Just wanted to chime in and offer some support. Although I'm sure @Andrei Radu @Amma Usman and @Jessica Booker would also have more to add here. I completely sympathise with your point about the challenges faced by non-law students. Non-law graduates often struggle in the application process because they may have less exposure to legal practice areas and may find it harder to demonstrate a clear understanding of a firm’s work. In recent cycles, I've read posts by many non-law students on TCLA who've mentioned how difficult they find it to articulate why they're interested in commercial law (beyond the general idea that it involves businesses and transactions). That said, it's important to note that the cycle isn't over and it's completely possible for you to secure a TC through a direct training contract application.

In my own case, I came to commercial law from a completely different background. But I think there are several ways you can strengthen your profile before reapplying next year. I found attending insight and open days extremely helpful in allowing me to start gaining a sense of different firms and their specialities, as well as where they sat in the broader market.

I'd also recommend gaining practical experience in a legal setting, though this isn’t strictly necessary. For me, this was largely done by working in legal clinics during my studies and on pro bono projects alongside lawyers from large commercial firms. But you can also start applying for paralegal roles or even business development and compliance roles. I've generally found that many places are open to hiring graduates from diverse backgrounds for these kinds of roles.

One area that I think many, many applicants struggle with is commercial awareness. I'm really pleased that more people are recognising how challenging this can be for applicants. I'd highly recommend reading through ZipLaw, LittleLaw and also reviewing any TCLA threads on commercial awareness. Most law students often find it difficult to really draw out the financial, economic, and political implications of certain stories and trends. Given that your background is in econ, I think it's worthwhile thinking more about the legal aspects of the stories/trends that you're interested in. This could help ensure that your commercial awareness is more targeted to the legal profession and focussed on what lawyers do.

These are just some ideas that I wanted to send across, but I really think you can get that training contract. Keep at it and let us know if you have any questions about firms you can apply to for a direct training contract during this cycle

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

Where is the implication I made that you had your university place handed to you? You’ve literally proved my point - universities make contextual offers so all universities are accessible to all.

I think what he means by 'accessibility' is the financial aspect of attending. For me personally, my dad lost his job around the time I was applying to unis and so, even though I got into one of the top unis in my home country, I decided to attend a lower-ranked one so that I wouldn't have to factor in living costs. So even if people get offers to places like Oxbridge, without a full residential scholarship, it might be difficult for someone of a lower socioeconomic background who's from a different part of the country to take up the place.

 

[londonlawyer]

Did you receive the invite today?

Wednesday

 

[Deleted member 23778]

It looks like my application season for this year might be over with no VS/TC offers. I have good A-Level marks (4xA*) and a (non-law) degree from Oxford and lots of extra-curriculars. I think my biggest weakness in my applications is a lack of legal-specific experience, for most of university I believed that I wanted to work as an economist so I didn't accumulate much of the CV law-stuff.

After doing lots of research over the last few months, I am certain that I want to work in commercial and competition law so will reapply next year. Does anyone have any tips of what I could do between now and then, as a graduate student, to improve my chances for next year. Specifically how can one gain the relevant experience? It feels really hard to get any real insight into commercial work when you're not already working at a commercial firm (a very draining catch-22).

Good luck everyone!

Hi, just my two cents.

Firstly, impressive list of achievements! Definitely achievements that would be attractive to the very best law firms

Secondly, I really do not think you *need* legal experience to get a TC and definitely wouldn't need that to get a VS offer. I have attended so many law firm events where lawyers/grad rec reiterate the fact that they know getting legal experience is difficult. What they look for is a manifest interest in commercial law and sharp intellect (through good grades, which you clearly demonstrate).

To demonstrate an interest in commercial law, what I did was to attend a bunch of insight events. I think I attended about 20 events the past two years. Look to apply for competitive insight days as well. I also completed forage internships. This was enough to get me a TC interview invite at Slaughter and May. I had not done a VS before this interview. Of course, it is important to be able to speak about what you learned from these and how they reinforced your interest in commercial law.

Secondly, I think you should be able to show transferable skills. i.e.:how are the things you have already accomplished relevant to law/ how would they make you a good lawyer? In doing this, you would show that you actually know the role of a lawyer and have thought deeply about it- making it clear that this new career trajectory isn't just a whim which can easily change.

There are lots of interconnections between law and economics and so I do think it would be quite easy to come up with a compelling 'why law?' response which shows clear reasoning.

I hope this is useful. Goodluck!

(I also came from a quasi-economics background and have now gotten MC offers this cycle, so just know this is very doable!).

 

[Katy12345]

Grad rec trying to do damage control when it’s so much better to be honest and transparent about it. I went to a semi-top RG but I went there solely because it was the closest RG to where I live. I wasn’t in a financial position of moving really far from home. Of course I loved my uni and course but my options were quite limited. It’s sad that people with potential are immediately rejected because they didn’t go Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial. It’s minor though it’s their loss at the end of the day. 🥲🥲​

One of their current trainees went to the University of Manchester so I definitely think they consider RG’s especially as they are a sponsor of MULS

 

[l789]

Hi, just my two cents.

Firstly, impressive list of achievements! Definitely achievements that would be attractive to the very best law firms

Secondly, I really do not think you *need* legal experience to get a TC and definitely wouldn't need that to get a VS offer. I have attended so many law firm events where lawyers/grad rec reiterate the fact that they know getting legal experience is difficult. What they look for is a manifest interest in commercial law and sharp intellect (through good grades, which you clearly demonstrate).

To demonstrate an interest in commercial law, what I did was to attend a bunch of insight events. I think I attended about 20 events the past two years. Look to apply for competitive insight days as well. I also completed forage internships. This was enough to get me a TC interview invite at Slaughter and May. I had not done a VS before this interview. Of course, it is important to be able to speak about what you learned from these and how they reinforced your interest in commercial law.

Secondly, I think you should be able to show transferable skills. i.e.:how are the things you have already accomplished relevant to law/ how would they make you a good lawyer? In doing this, you would show that you actually know the role of a lawyer and have thought deeply about it- making it clear that this new career trajectory isn't just a whim which can easily change.

There are lots of interconnections between law and economics and so I do think it would be quite easy to come up with a compelling 'why law?' response which shows clear reasoning.

I hope this is useful. Goodluck!

(I also came from a quasi-economics background and have now gotten MC offers this cycle, so just know this is very doable!).

Amazing … congratulations!

Thank you for sharing this

 

[Deleted member 23778]

Amazing … congratulations!

Thank you for sharing this

Welcome!

 

[VMS]

Update just received my 8th this week 😂

I'm so sorry, it's such a shame that all of those have come at once. I hope you have a much better weekend and have the time to take a break from apps!