What am I doing wrong?

[enjcorps]

Hi, all! So my question is probably redundant because I can't really put my applications down verbatim, but I have applied to I think 4 vac schemes/1 TC so far and all have been rejections at the application stage. I have never got past that stage to an interview or assessment centre, but have passed any relevant SJT/Watson Glasers.

So I'm wondering where I'm going wrong? Why is my application being put aside at each turn before the interview stage just so I can step my game up. In terms of experiences, I'm a final year Law student and pretty much most of my Uni experience has been spent in COVID so it has been a bit difficult finding opportunities, but I have some things under my belt like working a few part-time jobs at high-end retailers, volunteering as a tutor, a few months' worth of legal experience abroad this year, and that's pretty much it. As far as grades, I don't know if GCSEs matter since I've never been asked for them but I assume not, A-levels I got ABC, currently achieving 2:1/1 in my degree, plus I've had some extenuating circumstances.

When I fill out applications, for example 'why X firm?', 'what skills do you have that would make you a good lawyer?', 'what makes Y firm stand out?', my approach has always been to try and speak a bit about myself, my skills, my own knowledge and then largely link that back to the firm. So perhaps something like: 'Attention to detail is an important skill for lawyers to have, and I have demonstrated and developed this during my attachment, in which I handled a case involving XYZ, and my duties involved DEF.'

So clearly there is something wrong with my approach here and I'm just wondering what that is? Sorry for the long post -- any advice offered is greatly appreciated!

@Jessica Booker (just @ing because I've seen your posts and you give really good advice!)

 

[Jessica Booker]

Are you claiming the extenuating circumstances and do they apply to your A-levels?

 

[enjcorps]

Are you claiming the extenuating circumstances and do they apply to your A-levels?

Yeah, I'm claiming extenuating circumstances and they apply now to my degree 2020-21. As far as A-levels, I don't have extenuating circumstances for that but do utilise the RARE contextual recruitment wherever possible since my A levels were slightly above average for my area.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Yeah, I'm claiming extenuating circumstances and they apply now to my degree 2020-21. As far as A-levels, I don't have extenuating circumstances for that but do utilise the RARE contextual recruitment wherever possible since my A levels were slightly above average for my area.

For some firms it maybe if you aren’t meeting their A-level/UCAS criteria. Are you applying to firms that are looking for ABB or above?

 

[enjcorps]

For some firms it maybe if you aren’t meeting their A-level/UCAS criteria. Are you applying to firms that are looking for ABB or above?

No, firms like Shearman & Stirling I don't bother. I only apply to firms that don't place that much emphasis on A-levels or have no A-level requirement. I think it's something in how I'm writing my applications -- maybe I'm not saying enough or I'm saying the wrong thing? I do try to stick to the question that's being asked of me, like if I am asked 'why do you want to work for ____' I'll try research the firm, their values and initiatives, things about the firm that really resonate with me or that I can speak about to show why I'd be a good fit there, stuff like that and really just try to apply and tailor myself but I guess I'm going about this wrong? I dunno, I'm just kind of confused because it's like many people say as far as how it's like a game of luck and you just have to keep trying and trying until hopefully something sticks. But one thing I have realised now is it's not what my experiences are but how I word them, so I think it's not even the fact that I have a lack of relevant experience but more so that I'm just not selling myself right?

 

[Jessica Booker]

No, firms like Shearman & Stirling I don't bother. I only apply to firms that don't place that much emphasis on A-levels or have no A-level requirement. I think it's something in how I'm writing my applications -- maybe I'm not saying enough or I'm saying the wrong thing? I do try to stick to the question that's being asked of me, like if I am asked 'why do you want to work for ____' I'll try research the firm, their values and initiatives, things about the firm that really resonate with me or that I can speak about to show why I'd be a good fit there, stuff like that and really just try to apply and tailor myself but I guess I'm going about this wrong? I dunno, I'm just kind of confused because it's like many people say as far as how it's like a game of luck and you just have to keep trying and trying until hopefully something sticks. But one thing I have realised now is it's not what my experiences are but how I word them, so I think it's not even the fact that I have a lack of relevant experience but more so that I'm just not selling myself right?

Has anyone reviewed your applications? Careers service/current trainees or associates?

 

[enjcorps]

Has anyone reviewed your applications? Careers service/current trainees or associates?

No, this is something to consider! I've recently got a mentor and was considering having him go over my applications. He's not a commercial lawyer but I still think it'd be pretty helpful just to have a fresh pair of eyes go through it before it gets to grad recruitment. As far as any trainees or associates, I don't really know any.

 

[Jessica Booker]

No, this is something to consider! I've recently got a mentor and was considering having him go over my applications. He's not a commercial lawyer but I still think it'd be pretty helpful just to have a fresh pair of eyes go through it before it gets to grad recruitment. As far as any trainees or associates, I don't really know any.

I’d definitely get a mentor or even a friend you could trust with these type of things to look over your applications. It can often be down to your writing style rather than content, so it’s important to get critique on your applications.

 

[AvniD]

Hi, all! So my question is probably redundant because I can't really put my applications down verbatim, but I have applied to I think 4 vac schemes/1 TC so far and all have been rejections at the application stage. I have never got past that stage to an interview or assessment centre, but have passed any relevant SJT/Watson Glasers.

So I'm wondering where I'm going wrong? Why is my application being put aside at each turn before the interview stage just so I can step my game up. In terms of experiences, I'm a final year Law student and pretty much most of my Uni experience has been spent in COVID so it has been a bit difficult finding opportunities, but I have some things under my belt like working a few part-time jobs at high-end retailers, volunteering as a tutor, a few months' worth of legal experience abroad this year, and that's pretty much it. As far as grades, I don't know if GCSEs matter since I've never been asked for them but I assume not, A-levels I got ABC, currently achieving 2:1/1 in my degree, plus I've had some extenuating circumstances.

When I fill out applications, for example 'why X firm?', 'what skills do you have that would make you a good lawyer?', 'what makes Y firm stand out?', my approach has always been to try and speak a bit about myself, my skills, my own knowledge and then largely link that back to the firm. So perhaps something like: 'Attention to detail is an important skill for lawyers to have, and I have demonstrated and developed this during my attachment, in which I handled a case involving XYZ, and my duties involved DEF.'

So clearly there is something wrong with my approach here and I'm just wondering what that is? Sorry for the long post -- any advice offered is greatly appreciated!

@Jessica Booker (just @ing because I've seen your posts and you give really good advice!)

I agree with Jessica- definitely get others to proofread your applications. For the first few, along with getting a friend or family member to review your applications, also get someone from your careers service/TCLA's application review service/someone working in commercial law to read through them so you can bring out your best writing style that matches what firms are looking for. As you get a hang of this, you can maybe start letting go of this more 'professional' opinion and start relying solely on your family and friends' perspective because by that time they will get used to your writing style and will be able to tell you where you need to develop your answers more or if you're coming off as inauthentic anywhere.

My best tip would be to evidence your answers with research and always tie your motivations for working in commercial law back to yourself and your experiences. The structure you've mentioned in your post is really good- just ensure that you explain how you were able to develop/employ XYZ skill/ability and why that makes you a good fit for a career in commercial law at that firm. The biggest mistake I made early on in my applications was to put the burden of deducing these crucial links between my experiences and motivations up to the reader, and this would always weaken my applications and make them less convincing.

Wishing you all the very best- please do reach out here on the forum if you have any questions about the application process that I can help with. You've got this! 💪

 

[RoughWood]

What has been said above is very helpful but I just wanted to say that I understand how demotivating it is to be rejected at application stage. Last year I received multiple rejections at application and it is so frustrating as you don't have any feedback to see where you are going wrong!

I send the odd application to the university careers service who have been helpful but what has made the most difference has been writing an application and then re-reading it a week later. The mistakes that I hadn't noticed jump out when I haven't seen it for a while.

I completely understand how you are feeling and trust that you are not alone!

 

[George Maxwell]

Hi, all! So my question is probably redundant because I can't really put my applications down verbatim, but I have applied to I think 4 vac schemes/1 TC so far and all have been rejections at the application stage. I have never got past that stage to an interview or assessment centre, but have passed any relevant SJT/Watson Glasers.

So I'm wondering where I'm going wrong? Why is my application being put aside at each turn before the interview stage just so I can step my game up. In terms of experiences, I'm a final year Law student and pretty much most of my Uni experience has been spent in COVID so it has been a bit difficult finding opportunities, but I have some things under my belt like working a few part-time jobs at high-end retailers, volunteering as a tutor, a few months' worth of legal experience abroad this year, and that's pretty much it. As far as grades, I don't know if GCSEs matter since I've never been asked for them but I assume not, A-levels I got ABC, currently achieving 2:1/1 in my degree, plus I've had some extenuating circumstances.

When I fill out applications, for example 'why X firm?', 'what skills do you have that would make you a good lawyer?', 'what makes Y firm stand out?', my approach has always been to try and speak a bit about myself, my skills, my own knowledge and then largely link that back to the firm. So perhaps something like: 'Attention to detail is an important skill for lawyers to have, and I have demonstrated and developed this during my attachment, in which I handled a case involving XYZ, and my duties involved DEF.'

So clearly there is something wrong with my approach here and I'm just wondering what that is? Sorry for the long post -- any advice offered is greatly appreciated!

@Jessica Booker (just @ing because I've seen your posts and you give really good advice!)

Hi @enjcorps,

I am sorry to hear that you are feeling like this. I am pleased, though, that you are reaching out to the community. The forum exists to have discussions like this, so it is lovely to see users feeling comfortable enough to start this sort of thread.

I just wanted to add that applying to four TCs/VSs is not a lot! The vast majority of people I know applied to far more than this. Think 20+ (and even then they only got progressed by a handful of firms, if any!). Keep iterating and improving (@AvniD's suggestion of getting feedback from others on your applications is great advice) and I am sure that successes will come.

In future, please feel free to reach out by tagging me, @AvniD or @James Carrabino. We are here to help!

 

[James Carrabino]

Hi @enjcorps,

I am sorry to hear that you are feeling like this. I am pleased, though, that you are reaching out to the community. The forum exists to have discussions like this, so it is lovely to see users feeling comfortable enough to start this sort of thread.

I just wanted to add that applying to four TCs/VSs is not a lot! The vast majority of people I know applied to far more than this. Think 20+ (and even then they only got progressed by a handful of firms, if any!). Keep iterating and improving (@AvniD's suggestion of getting feedback from others on your applications is great advice) and I am sure that successes will come.

In future, please feel free to reach out by tagging me, @AvniD or @James Carrabino. We are here to help!

@enjcorps if I had only applied to the first 20 firms I applied to, I would only have got past the application stage once! This whole process is a massive learning curve and we are here to help - keep working hard and keep reaching out for advice and you will start seeing results I am sure

 

[JD]

How are you able to balance doing 20+ applications without diminishing the quality? It might be difficult to do that many while balancing exams or work.

 

[James Carrabino]

How are you able to balance doing 20+ applications without diminishing the quality? It might be difficult to do that many while balancing exams or work.

I was not working full time, granted, nor did I have exams during the application period - but I was in the middle of a full-time master's degree. I would link you to my post in the main vacation scheme thread here which is basically to say that each application need not be as humongous of a task as applicants think!

If you are able to assign yourself some 'application days' throughout the rest of December January, then I think that you can get one (possibly two) full applications completed on each of those days

 

[George Maxwell]

How are you able to balance doing 20+ applications without diminishing the quality? It might be difficult to do that many while balancing exams or work.

Hi @Romeo,

I completely empathise with you, setting out to do 20+ applications from a standing start sounds awful 😅. It is important to remember that this is not the approach that you need to take, nor is it one that everyone takes who is/was successful. The number of applications you submit is a personal choice so do not feel like you have to write this many!

For example, there are quite a few people in my seminar group at BPP (at the City Consortium firms) who submitted less than five applications.

However, if you do decide to take this approach, here are a few things to remember:

1. Try doing applications little and often. You still have plenty of time until the majority of applications close (from memory roughly end of January). Don't feel like you need to do all of your applications in one go. Break down the task into manageable chunks and plan when those chunks need to be completed.

I generally did an hour at the end of the day and made sure to plan my approach (by using an application tracker). Here is TCLA's application tracker template if that helps!

2. Applications get easier.

The first few are the hardest because you are not in the habit of doing them! You will be writing (nearly) everything from scratch. Once you have written the first few you can then build on what you have written before.

Everyone always told me to write a few applications before attempting those for your top firm(s). Your writing style and reasoning will improve throughout the process. Further to this, you will become clearer about your reasoning during the application process and so it will naturally become clearer as a result.

3. To help with 2. make sure you save all your responses to applications before sending them off.

This is important because:

a. Some firms do not let you see your application answers after they are sent(!). Others will allow you to access them, but you have to login to CVmail etc. and remember your password (the number of times I forgot mine!) and navigate their antiquated interface to access them (5/10+ minutes). If you save copies separately you avoid this whole process.

You also may be asked about your answers in an interview and it is really important that you are prepared to be challenged on your responses. Save them and revise them prior to interview to refresh your memory.

b. You can use the content of your previous answers to help inspire/save time/iterate on for your future applications. This will save you a LOT of time. It will also provide you with a record of how much your applications have developed (which is hugely satisfying).

4. Try this procrastination tip.

If you are feeling overwhelmed and sick of writing applications (which is hugely normal), you might procrastinate. It is really easy to procrastinate when you have a far-off goal that you are aiming for that seems pretty unattainable (like writing 20+ applications).

Try writing your applications for five minutes. Set a timer. If, after that five minutes, you still hate it and really cannot focus, stop. Then try to do something else for 10/20 minutes and come back to it and try doing five minutes again. For me personally, nine times out of ten I ended up doing an hour because getting started was the hardest part of application writing/preparation.

5. Finally, here is some great TCLA content on writing applications that might help inspire those writing so many applications. Hopefully it might help to provide some motivation to those reading this!

a. General ideas about "why law v commercial law?".
b. How to craft a unique (application) answer (by @Jaysen!)

I hope that helps Romeo, but do follow up if anything is unclear 🚀