Would it be possible to study Law in the US?

[Armiie]

I'm currently a Computer Science student.
I'll be doing the SQE after my degree with the hopes of becoming a corporate lawyer in a MC firm.

What's the process for a student to be able to legally practice law in the US, specifically states like New York?
Is it possible? Or do you need to go to a grad school in the US & get a JD?

From what I've heard you need a 3-year degree & to pass the bar to work in the US.
For NY bar specifically, you need to have done a law degree (which I have not).

So, therefore, am I not able to practice in the US? What are my options?

I'm sorry for all the questions. I'd be grateful for any advice or a point in the right direction.
Thank you

 

[Kablahc]

So since there are a lot of states out there all with different rules, as you correctly pointed out, for specific info Google is your best friend!! But broadly speaking:

In most cases you need a degree + GDL or law degree as you said. However I'm no expert so do search up states youre interested in and their rules. Going to a grad school in the US might be a good option for you as you could go to a US law school and then pass the bar exam there just like all US lawyers do! It depends whether you want to work for a US firm right off the bat, or a bit later. You may not ever really be able to practice in NY without this but do check the specifics.

The bar exam is difficult and some people take a gap year to study it. So you may be looking at doing this after the completion of your degree (if you haven't completed it already). But if you were to get a TC at an international law firm you would definitely be able to talk to them about your ambition to qualify in the US - some might even help you with study leave or fees if it's advantageous to the firm too. So my advice might be that if you don't mind working at a UK law firm it might be advisable to go for a UK TC first and then see where you go from there.
If you're working at an MC or global firm, you will be able to do some degree of cross border work which you may not have to be qualified in the US for. For example, advising a client with assets in both the UK and US, from your office in the UK, I'm pretty sure you don't need to qualify as a US lawyer for. So if you're interested in pursuing mostly UK law with a bit of international work perhaps consider taking the bar exam a bit later.

Regarding the fact you want to do SQE not GDL-Nobody is really quite sure what impacts SQE will have just yet. It may be that some states allow you to take the bar exam with it in the future despite having a non-law degree, like wise some states will not - this will be a bit of a wait and see I'm afraid unless anyone's got some good information out there.

Hope this helped, I'm no expert though!

 

[Armiie]

So my advice might be that if you don't mind working at a UK law firm it might be advisable to go for a UK TC first and then see where you go from there.

This was one of the ideas I had at the back of my head. But, the problem is whether if I was transferred I'd be able to even practice in NY because the NY bar requires all students to have studied law for 3 years at undergrad (which I haven't). So that would be a problem

Regarding the fact you want to do SQE not GDL-Nobody is really quite sure what impacts SQE will have just yet. It may be that some states allow you to take the bar exam with it in the future despite having a non-law degree, like wise some states will not - this will be a bit of a wait and see I'm afraid unless anyone's got some good information out there.

Ah okay, I'm not sure either hence the post
But I'd have to take the SQE as that's what would be in use by the time I graduate from my undergrad CompSci degree.

I have replied above in bold.

Thank you very much for taking the time to get back to me, I appreciate it

 

[Kablahc]

I have replied above in bold.

Thank you very much for taking the time to get back to me, I appreciate it

No problem

Since it seems like you are exclusively interested in practicing in NY I can tell you 100% that you will not be able to sit the bar exam post-degree alone as the GDL is always ineligible, no exceptions. https://www.nybarexam.org/eligible/eligibility.htm However, all is not lost!!!!! You have lots of options if you're interested in US law and practice so don't get down about it at all! You could also look at other jurisdictions like California which requires you to be qualified in your home jurisdiction - so after you've completed your SQE - or done a US LLM. I dare say working at a large firm's office in California would be broadly similar to working at a large firm's office in NY

If you applied for a US law firm, for example, as long as they have offices in the US you can ALWAYS request a secondment as a trainee (provided the firm does them lol). You'd just be working on UK law work or whatever you're qualified for while you're geographically in the US haha. So you'd get plenty of exposure to US law that way - and I'd argue you'd get quite a lot of exposure just from working at a US firm's UK office if the firm does a lot of international work too! Firms who train you will be spending a LOT of money on you so they're surprisingly flexible when it comes to professional development because everyone likes returns on their investments hahahahaha.

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

@Kablahc’s advice is good.

However, I’d just add on one or two warning notes. Law school in America is not cheap at all - a couple of years of it will easily bring you into a six figure debt. Once you’re applying to US firms (or US offices to be precise) you’ll have the trouble that you don’t have a Green Card or US citizenship, which means that you need to persuade the firm why sponsoring you for the relevant visa is a wise investment on their part.

What I’m getting at is that if you wish to go down the US law school route, then it’s likely only worth it if you go to one of the top 15 law schools. Anything below that, firms will be unlikely to see the value in sponsoring you for a visa over the glut of American candidates already with the relevant right to work. I know people who went down this route successfully, but the difference was that they had all been to Harvard/Yale/Berkeley/Columbia law school.

The same sort of argument applies to doing the JD overseas - for example at Sussex, which used to offer it - then applying to US offices.
If you’re desperate to work in the states, then unless the law school offer route works out for you, secondments/transfers is the way forwards.

Note that transfers are more common the more senior you are.

For now, your best bet is to work as hard as you can at university. Get the best scores possible on your modules. Get a first. Good grades at university will definitely help lessen the problems bad a level grades cause. US law school application decisions are based to no small extent on GPA, and for that matter firms like S&M (if you stay in the U.K.) will place a lot of importance on university grades.

 

[Armiie]

Once you’re applying to US firms (or US offices to be precise) you’ll have the trouble that you don’t have a Green Card or US citizenship, which means that you need to persuade the firm why sponsoring you for the relevant visa is a wise investment on their part.

What ways do I have of doing this? Learning a language? Improving my skills as a computer science graduate, as engineering is a specialty occupation that is in high demand in the US. What else could I do to increase my chances of a firm sponsoring me?


What I’m getting at is that if you wish to go down the US law school route, then it’s likely only worth it if you go to one of the top 15 law schools.
Do I even have the chance to apply to any of these law schools with my GCSEs & A levels? Would my application be competitive?
Moreover, how would I finance this if I was (by a miracle) accepted into one of them?


For now, your best bet is to work as hard as you can at university. Get the best scores possible on your modules. Get a first. Good grades at university will definitely help lessen the problems bad a level grades cause. US law school application decisions are based to no small extent on GPA, and for that matter firms like S&M (if you stay in the U.K.) will place a lot of importance on university grades.

Very true. Thank you

Hi Adam,
Thank you for taking the time to reply

I have replied to some of your comments above in italics.
I'd really appreciate any feedback.

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

What ways do I have of doing this? Learning a language? Improving my skills as a computer science graduate, as engineering is a specialty occupation that is in high demand in the US. What else could I do to increase my chances of a firm sponsoring me?

Engineering/compsci is indeed a specialty occupation, but the problem promptly arises that you want to work in a law firm. An engineering/tech company will only sponsor you for a visa to work for them. To be clear - H1B visas (and most other work visas) are not the sort of thing that you just get to do whatever you want in the USA once you have the visa. A specific company or university sponsors you. While you are in the USA you can only work at that company. If you quit that company you cannot remain in the USA.

It brings us immediately back to the original point - how to you persuade a US law firm to take you. As stated, the only way to go into a US firm's office "from the ground level" is to have a JD. As stated, the best way to improve your chances of doing that is to go to a top 15 law school. That is how you better your chances. That and good university grades.

Do I even have the chance to apply to any of these law schools with my GCSEs & A levels? Would my application be competitive?

Are your grades good enough for a top 15 law school? I don't know. I don't work in admissions. I'll be honest - they certainly won't help you, and you will certainly struggle, but as you have probably picked up, you will have an uphill struggle getting into corporate law anywhere.
This is also very much a case of putting the cart before the horse. You can't go to law school until you have done undergrad. So don't worry about US law school until you are actually at that stage. For now work on your university grades. Those are extremely important. Have a google and you'll see that good law schools have a high average GPA acceptance standard. If along the way you decide that you're willing to work in a firm in the UK, then those great grades at university you've worked so hard to achieve will stand you in good stead, and can - to an extent - help balance out your poor A level grades.

Moreover, how would I finance this if I was (by a miracle) accepted into one of them?

Financing is of course another question. Some people are lucky enough to get scholarships: others take out a loan. In the highly unlikely event that you were to get an offer from Harvard Law, the debt you'd have at the end would be wiped out extremely quickly, because US firms pay a lot for Harvard law grads.

Is it unlikely? Oh yes, of course. I'm not going to lie to you, it's highly unlikely - for anyone! It's a very competitive and lengthy process. However, it's the only way of working in America from the very start of your career, which you seem set on doing. It is not a particularly feasible option, and is complicated and tricky at the best of times.

Personally, I would concentrate on your undergrad modules for now. Go to law fairs, do research, and so on. Second year, apply for vac schemes (potentially third year too). You can apply to US firms (albeit their London branches), see what happens. Work as hard as you can at your undergrad degree. See what happens. Ideally, by the end of your undergrad degree, you'll have a much better idea of where you stand, how interested firms are in you, how good your grades are in relation to US law school.

 

[Armiie]

@Adam Gilchrist
Thank you for getting back to me

• While you are in the USA you can only work at that company. If you quit that company you cannot remain in the USA.

Wouldn't I be able to apply for permanent residence another way? Do all people who are sponsored by a company in the US HAVE to work for them forever?

• As stated, the only way to go into a US firm's office "from the ground level" is to have a JD. As stated, the best way to improve your chances of doing that is to go to a top 15 law school. That is how you better your chances. That and good university grades.

Understood, thank you.

• Have a google and you'll see that good law schools have a high average GPA acceptance standard.

Is the American GPA system the equivalent of the UK class system (1st class in the UK is equivalent to a 4.0 GPA..)?

• In the highly unlikely event that you were to get an offer from Harvard Law, the debt you'd have at the end would be wiped out extremely quickly, because US firms pay a lot for Harvard law grads. Is it unlikely? Oh yes, of course. I'm not going to lie to you, it's highly unlikely - for anyone! It's a very competitive and lengthy process. However, it's the only way of working in America from the very start of your career, which you seem set on doing. It is not a particularly feasible option, and is complicated and tricky at the best of times.

Of course, I understand what you mean.
Harvard is definitely a reach for sure, but thank you for bringing this point up.
Even if I was to (magically) get into Harvard, isn't it astronomically difficult to get a work visa, or would it be easier for me given I would be a 'Harvard grad' (theoretically speaking)?

• Personally, I would concentrate on your undergrad modules for now. Go to law fairs, do research, and so on. Second year, apply for vac schemes (potentially third year too). You can apply to US firms (albeit their London branches), see what happens. Work as hard as you can at your undergrad degree. See what happens. Ideally, by the end of your undergrad degree, you'll have a much better idea of where you stand, how interested firms are in you, how good your grades are in relation to US law school.

Very true. I will still be doing tech/engineering-related internships during this time too so that's important to note.

 

[Numerius Negidius]

@Adam Gilchrist
Wouldn't I be able to apply for permanent residence another way? Do all people who are sponsored by a company in the US HAVE to work for them forever?

A H1B visa is not a guaranteed pathway to a green card/citizenship. You will have to get a new visa to switch employers.

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

@Adam Gilchrist
Thank you for getting back to me

• While you are in the USA you can only work at that company. If you quit that company you cannot remain in the USA.

Wouldn't I be able to apply for permanent residence another way? Do all people who are sponsored by a company in the US HAVE to work for them forever?

• As stated, the only way to go into a US firm's office "from the ground level" is to have a JD. As stated, the best way to improve your chances of doing that is to go to a top 15 law school. That is how you better your chances. That and good university grades.

Understood, thank you.

• Have a google and you'll see that good law schools have a high average GPA acceptance standard.

Is the American GPA system the equivalent of the UK class system (1st class in the UK is equivalent to a 4.0 GPA..)?

• In the highly unlikely event that you were to get an offer from Harvard Law, the debt you'd have at the end would be wiped out extremely quickly, because US firms pay a lot for Harvard law grads. Is it unlikely? Oh yes, of course. I'm not going to lie to you, it's highly unlikely - for anyone! It's a very competitive and lengthy process. However, it's the only way of working in America from the very start of your career, which you seem set on doing. It is not a particularly feasible option, and is complicated and tricky at the best of times.

Of course, I understand what you mean.
Harvard is definitely a reach for sure, but thank you for bringing this point up.
Even if I was to (magically) get into Harvard, isn't it astronomically difficult to get a work visa, or would it be easier for me given I would be a 'Harvard grad' (theoretically speaking)?

• Personally, I would concentrate on your undergrad modules for now. Go to law fairs, do research, and so on. Second year, apply for vac schemes (potentially third year too). You can apply to US firms (albeit their London branches), see what happens. Work as hard as you can at your undergrad degree. See what happens. Ideally, by the end of your undergrad degree, you'll have a much better idea of where you stand, how interested firms are in you, how good your grades are in relation to US law school.

Very true. I will still be doing tech/engineering-related internships during this time too so that's important to note.

Wouldn't I be able to apply for permanent residence another way? Do all people who are sponsored by a company in the US HAVE to work for them forever

Well yes, most people on H1B visas (or the equivalent ) have them extended, and if they are on such a visa long enough may be able to apply for more permanent visas. The USA visa system is mind-bogglingly complicated, and it really isn't worth troubling yourself over. Suffice to say, don't waste your time over it. It isn't relevant to you for now.

Is the American GPA system the equivalent of the UK class system (1st class in the UK is equivalent to a 4.0 GPA..)?

Essentially yes. A first is about 3.9 in old money

Even if I was to (magically) get into Harvard, isn't it astronomically difficult to get a work visa, or would it be easier for me given I would be a 'Harvard grad' (theoretically speaking)?
Still difficult, but less difficult. Harvard JD is a good thing to have on your resume. Not the only thing that matters, but a good thing anyway.