TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[law2022x]

Sorry do you mind sharing who the original poster was and what they said? The post has been removed 😕

It was @Penninevalley (think they have since deleted or smth) and they said something about how being a Black influencer on LinkedIn is a law firm’s wet dream suggesting law firms prefer them to help show off the diversity at their firms.

Completely forgetting the fact that the biggest law influencer hired by a law firm is a white woman called Eve. 🤡

 

[wannabesheridansmith]

This whole application process has really made me hate weekends, how am I meant to fill my time if I'm not constantly refreshing emails!?

 

[Petallove1]

Hi all, has anyone heard anything from:
Bates Wells (Spring Vac Sheme)
TLT (London Office, Summer Vac Scheme)
Penningtons Manches Cooper (London Office, Summer Vac Scheme)
Stephen Harwood (Summer Vac Scheme)
K&L Gates (Summer Vac Scheme)
Arnold & Porter (Summer Vac Scheme)
All post-app
Thank you!

I know someone who has an AC at PMC in a week and a half idk if that’s helpful!

 

[legally.brown]

This whole application process has really made me hate weekends, how am I meant to fill my time if I'm not constantly refreshing emails!?

that’s why we have tcla and linkedin lol. i sound so lame😭😭

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

It was @Penninevalley (think they have since deleted or smth) and they said something about how being a Black influencer on LinkedIn is a law firm’s wet dream suggesting law firms prefer them to help show off the diversity at their firms.

Completely forgetting the fact that the biggest law influencer hired by a law firm is a white woman called Eve. 🤡

It’s really sad when some people believe that ethnic minorities/disadvantaged backgrounds are prioritised by law firm when dishing out TCs.

I recently was at a US law firm for the AC and more than half of candidates there were from Oxbridge. In my group I was the only one not from Oxbridge. I asked them about their professional background and I was told by all of them that they only have extra curricular experience (except one who had a month of work experience somewhere). I was really shocked because on my CV I have a lot of diverse work experiences while some people there showed up only with Oxbridge on CV.

It’s really disappointing when firms first ask for “different skills” etc. And then they invite people to the AC with only “society experience” just cause they went to Oxbridge.

How is a 19 years old with nothing on his CV, other than Oxbridge, a better candidate than a ethnic minority/socially disadvantaged candidate with a lot of skills and work experiences?

Elitism runs deep in the London legal sphere.

 

[s2203]

Those who got a Dechert PFO, did they provide feedback on your performance on the written assessment?

 

[avry]

Anyone who got the Cooley interview invite, have you been allocated your time/date? I emailed grad rec to ask yday and they told me we’d heard back sometime yesterday, however I havent received anything.

i haven't either - has anyone heard anything since?

 

[Ash2323]

It’s really sad when some people believe that ethnic minorities/disadvantaged backgrounds are prioritised by law firm when dishing out TCs.

I recently was at a US law firm for the AC and more than half of candidates there were from Oxbridge. In my group I was the only one not from Oxbridge. I asked them about their professional background and I was told by all of them that they only have extra curricular experience (except one who had a month of work experience somewhere). I was really shocked because on my CV I have a lot of diverse work experiences while some people there showed up only with Oxbridge on CV.

It’s really disappointing when firms first ask for “different skills” etc. And then they invite people to the AC with only “society experience” just cause they went to Oxbridge.

How is a 19 years old with nothing on his CV, other than Oxbridge, a better candidate than a ethnic minority/socially disadvantaged candidate with a lot of skills and work experiences?

Elitism runs deep in the London legal sphere.

You/We should be proud of ourselves that we made it to the same position despite not having their background! Sometimes having that chip on my shoulder makes me more determined... I don't come from a family where commercial discussions about the economy were commonplace, rather immigrant parents who worked immensely hard. Yet I still made it to the interview alongside oxbridge candidates. As for the law firm in question, i would be very put off if they were only hiring from a select few "type" of people... name and shame I would say 😂

 

[lonelycruise]

It’s really sad when some people believe that ethnic minorities/disadvantaged backgrounds are prioritised by law firm when dishing out TCs.

I recently was at a US law firm for the AC and more than half of candidates there were from Oxbridge. In my group I was the only one not from Oxbridge. I asked them about their professional background and I was told by all of them that they only have extra curricular experience (except one who had a month of work experience somewhere). I was really shocked because on my CV I have a lot of diverse work experiences while some people there showed up only with Oxbridge on CV.

It’s really disappointing when firms first ask for “different skills” etc. And then they invite people to the AC with only “society experience” just cause they went to Oxbridge.

How is a 19 years old with nothing on his CV, other than Oxbridge, a better candidate than a ethnic minority/socially disadvantaged candidate with a lot of skills and work experiences?

Elitism runs deep in the London legal sphere.

I agree with the sentiment entirely, but there are also many, many BAME, disabled and working class Oxbridge candidates I’ve met at ACs -- and at large.

There’s a moral and cultural imperative for greater diversity at all levels of the hiring and recruitment process (as a lgbtq+ poc myself), but I don't think Oxbridge entails an inherent lack of diversity -- though its institutional dominance is something that is obviously worth interrogating.

Again, I agree but, respectfully, I do think it needs more nuance.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Anyone else get an email from Bristows saying their VI responses have been passed onto partners for review? I don't know if that's automatic or if grad rec reviews them first?

 

[The-PFO-Collector]

It’s really sad when some people believe that ethnic minorities/disadvantaged backgrounds are prioritised by law firm when dishing out TCs.

I recently was at a US law firm for the AC and more than half of candidates there were from Oxbridge. In my group I was the only one not from Oxbridge. I asked them about their professional background and I was told by all of them that they only have extra curricular experience (except one who had a month of work experience somewhere). I was really shocked because on my CV I have a lot of diverse work experiences while some people there showed up only with Oxbridge on CV.

It’s really disappointing when firms first ask for “different skills” etc. And then they invite people to the AC with only “society experience” just cause they went to Oxbridge.

How is a 19 years old with nothing on his CV, other than Oxbridge, a better candidate than a ethnic minority/socially disadvantaged candidate with a lot of skills and work experiences?

Elitism runs deep in the London legal sphere.

They are thinking of their clients. If they take Oxbridge, MIT, and Harvard graduates to a client meeting it looks more favourable for them in the pitch against other law firms. Would they really take 100% non-Oxbridge, like Uni of East London and Middlesex, I really don't think so. There has been a push for more diversity, but more is 1 or 2, they will not upset their status quo. Yes they will invite more to ACs, the vacation schemes etc, and maybe even take one or two for a TC, but in the long term, they know what they are after....I genuinely think law firms spend soo much money on diversity and inclusion, but its all just an illusion to appear more diverse. I would rather they did not, and instead hired a few more 'diverse' candidates for a TC and let them go at the end. At least that way they can make their own way in life.

Firms are seeing DEI as a badge of honour, but its not... It just shows how non-inclusive the firms are. I dont see TfL or the NHS doing DEI, because they have no need to. When will law firms get to the stage that they dont need DEI because its just there

 

[Miss Chocolate]

I also don't know if I should start preparing for the initial interview now. Just because I think my VI responses (given I had to say something within 60 seconds lol for 2 very generic questions) were pretty good. Also, I don't know what the assessment criteria for VI is.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

I would rather they did not, and instead hired a few more 'diverse' candidates for a TC and let them go at the end.

 

[user9809]

Same 🤣

 

[Miriam391]

For those who have done an AC for Fieldfisher, I suggest checking your application on recruitment portal. Mine said I was "Declined/withdrawn". I did not withdraw my application so I can only assume the former. I have emailed recruitment for more details but I think its a sign of what their decision is. Not for certain but likely.

For more details, I took the AC on the 26th for the diversity scheme in Birmingham. Haven't heard anything since. Pretty sure its cause I fucked up the written assessment (it was too simplistic and I regurgitated the info from the memo) and I waffled on some answers in the interview. Hope this helps.

Hey, where did you find your portal? I can’t find mine for some reason. Also do you know if they r sending out calls and emails about results? I also did the AC with you🥲

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Sorry do you mind sharing who the original poster was and what they said? The post has been removed 😕

We removed the post as it breached TCLA’s terms and rules, so we would rather it wasn’t repeated.

 

[Winter]

They are thinking of their clients. If they take Oxbridge, MIT, and Harvard graduates to a client meeting it looks more favourable for them in the pitch against other law firms. Would they really take 100% non-Oxbridge, like Uni of East London and Middlesex, I really don't think so. There has been a push for more diversity, but more is 1 or 2, they will not upset their status quo. Yes they will invite more to ACs, the vacation schemes etc, and maybe even take one or two for a TC, but in the long term, they know what they are after....I genuinely think law firms spend soo much money on diversity and inclusion, but its all just an illusion to appear more diverse. I would rather they did not, and instead hired a few more 'diverse' candidates for a TC and let them go at the end. At least that way they can make their own way in life.

Firms are seeing DEI as a badge of honour, but its not... It just shows how non-inclusive the firms are. I dont see TfL or the NHS doing DEI, because they have no need to. When will law firms get to the stage that they dont need DEI because its just there

I kinda disagree with the clients comment. It’s actually the clients that are pushing firms to be more diverse because clients want to see greater diversity on their legal panels when pitching for work. In fact, several clients do specific awards for law firms with diversity. So it’s not looked as favourable at all if they see Oxbridge students during a client meeting. You will never see a client asking lawyers what their alma mater is, very unlikely. No clue where you got the idea from that law firms would supposedly use the fact that they’ve got Oxbridge alumni to pitch for work from clients.

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

I agree with the sentiment entirely, but there are also many, many BAME, disabled and working class Oxbridge candidates I’ve met at ACs -- and at large.

There’s a moral and cultural imperative for greater diversity at all levels of the hiring and recruitment process (as a lgbtq+ poc myself), but I don't think Oxbridge entails an inherent lack of diversity -- though its institutional dominance is something that is obviously worth interrogating.

Again, I agree but, respectfully, I do think it needs more nuance.

While I agree with your point about the moral and cultural imperative for greater diversity, the facts are different from my point of view.

For me personally, diversity is not just about white, black, Asian etc.

Why does a white eton educated Oxbridge graduate have more chances of getting a tc in comparison to a white working class non Oxbridge graduate?

Why does a black eton educated Oxbridge graduate have more chances of getting a tc in comparison to a black working class non Oxbridge graduate?

Yes, I agree about the institutional dominance. But I think saying that BAME, working class, and disabled candidates are at large at ACs it’s a stretch. Maybe that’s your experience, but mine has been different.

I have nothing against Oxbridge, but I despise elitism. A candidate should be evaluated taking every factor into account. From my point of view, a non Oxbridge working class person (whether ethnic minority or not) working part time during university and not being spoon fed cause of rich parents has more potential.

Moreover, how does a 19 years olds candidate from Oxbridge with nothing on his CV show a passion for a career in law? Firms are always crying about “passion for commercial law”, then how someone with no tangible passion for law in the CV showed up at the AC at a particular us law firm?

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

They are thinking of their clients. If they take Oxbridge, MIT, and Harvard graduates to a client meeting it looks more favourable for them in the pitch against other law firms. Would they really take 100% non-Oxbridge, like Uni of East London and Middlesex, I really don't think so. There has been a push for more diversity, but more is 1 or 2, they will not upset their status quo. Yes they will invite more to ACs, the vacation schemes etc, and maybe even take one or two for a TC, but in the long term, they know what they are after....I genuinely think law firms spend soo much money on diversity and inclusion, but its all just an illusion to appear more diverse. I would rather they did not, and instead hired a few more 'diverse' candidates for a TC and let them go at the end. At least that way they can make their own way in life.

Firms are seeing DEI as a badge of honour, but its not... It just shows how non-inclusive the firms are. I dont see TfL or the NHS doing DEI, because they have no need to. When will law firms get to the stage that they dont need DEI because its just there

This is over estimating people’s knowledge of people’s educational background, whether a client or a colleague in a law firm.

The idea that non Oxbridge trainee/lawyers don’t go to meetings because clients expect them to be from certain universities just doesn’t align with what happens in reality.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

I kinda disagree with the clients comment. It’s actually the clients that are pushing firms to be more diverse because clients want to see greater diversity on their legal panels when pitching for work. In fact, several clients do specific awards for law firms with diversity. So it’s not looked as favourable at all if they see Oxbridge students during a client meeting. You will never see a client asking lawyers what their alma mater is, very unlikely. No clue where you got the idea from that law firms would supposedly use the fact that they’ve got Oxbridge alumni to pitch for work from clients.

Completely this.

I think many would be surprised as to how often clients ask for evidence of ED&I practices or policies in pitch documents or presentations, and that firms can often lose pitches because they don’t have the evidence their competitors do.