Congrats! I got one too
Likewise, any advice would be appreciated!
TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2024-5
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Likewise, any advice would be appreciated!
Are there any resources or practice sites that I can use for the Watson Glaser? Additionally, what is a good score in the WG?
Plenty of practice questions (and answers) at Assessment Day
Watson Glaser Critical Thinking Appraisal | AssessmentDay
Free Watson Glaser Critical Thinking tests to practice online. Discover tips and advice for critical thinking tests.
www.assessmentday.co.uk
- Feb 17, 2018
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@Ram Sabaratnam and I are working on a tool to help as we speak
Will share it here when it goes live!
- Sep 7, 2024
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Hiya @Poppypops124
First of all, congratulations on both offers! That's no small feat!
I don’t think there’s a universally right answer here. As you've indicated yourself, both options have clear advantages. I think that if you’re considering this as a question of which firm is better, you’ll probably run into dead ends. It’s probably more useful to treat this as a question about what kind of training, lifestyle, and long-term options you want for yourself.
You’re absolutely right that training in London tends to carry weight. The complexity of the work, exposure to cross-border transactions, and the level of early responsibility found at US firms in London can be difficult to replicate elsewhere. This can potentially open up more options down the line, especially if you want to move into other international offices or later transition in-house (I've had friends train in London and then move to Hong Kong, New York, Singapore, and elsewhere). The reputation of firms in the London market is also hard to replicate from outside. That said, this definitely can come at a cost from a work-life balance standpoint, though it's difficult to make any assessment without further information about where the HSF office is located and what associates there think.
There's also the question of mobility. Having spoken to foreign-qualified friends of mine, my sense is that it’s generally easier to go from London to other jurisdictions than the other way around. Moving in the opposite direction is not impossible, but it may be more dependant on which practice areas you end up specialising in and whether London makes sense professionally later on in your career.
In terms of training, I've heard fantastic things about HSFK's offices abroad, including the possibility of getting exposure to a broad diet of work in certain offices outside London and that the training can be less siloed than the London offices of certain US firms. I'd recommend reaching out to someone you trust at both firms and have a frank discussion about what you're looking for in both the short and long-term (preferably someone who has trained and then qualified in both offices). I think they'll be in a much better position to help you make sense of the decision. But ultimately, this is going to boil down to how you want to prioritise intensity, exit options, training, and work-life balance culture. Not sure how much this helps, but good luck with the decision and congratulations again!
I haven't heard anything from White and Case, but applied very close to the deadline. Should I expect an automatic PFO?
- Sep 7, 2024
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Hiya @sunshine101
I don't think you should! During the last application cycle, I spoke with several candidates who had their applications progressed from the initial stage closer to late August and even September. I wouldn't worry just yet. Good luck and I hope you hear back soon with good news!
Hey, I'm so sorry you feel that way - you put so much effort into every application, so it makes sense to feel disheartened if you don't get your desired outcome. As others have already said, some people have had to go through so many application cycles to get an offer. But let me give you also my view on this.
1. Getting a training contract or not says nothing about who you are, let alone how skilled you are or how much you are worth. I don't mean to diminish the achievements of anyone who has secured a training contract in saying this, but law is simply what you do - it's not who you are. Not getting an offer doesn't mean you don't have all the skills it takes to be a great lawyer - don't forget that grad recruiters just see a snapshot of who you are, and they are human too with their own biases and beliefs. Just because they haven't seen your potential so far, doesn't mean you don't possess it. If you get rejected by a firm just say "okay, they didn't see my potential, that's their loss" and then think "is there anything I can do to better reflect my fit in future applications?"
2. I can understand what you're saying about that odd feeling when you see your juniors succeeding in the process. For context, I finished my law degree in 2023, did a masters in management, and have been working at one of the US banks ever since. I sometimes find myself in that strange feeling of "oh, I'm up against second year uni students....". It's only my first proper application cycle (have only had finance/consulting professional experience so far), but I already know that I'll have to fight these types of thoughts if I face rejections. What I'd remind you - as I'll have to remind myself - is that everyone is on their own timeline and you're not competing or trying to keep up with anyone. From the looks of things, we'll be (sadly) working till our late 60s, maybe even 70s (!!!). You're not running out of time - you're just on your own path.
3. Law isn't the only option - I'm not saying this to discourage you, and I'm not trying to implicitly tell you to give up on law. But the way I see it (admittedly as an outsider for the most part), the application process is so unnecessarily long and complicated because of the sheer volume of applications, the hours are incredibly long, and the work isn't always as important or meaningful. I always keep in mind these negatives to avoid romanticising or obsessing over becoming a lawyer - it's just a job, it's not an ideal job in any way, and if I don't get it there are so many other options. I'll sometimes tell myself "huh, am I really begging these people to give me the chance to be worked to the bone?"
Sometimes we think we want something until we do it and then realise it's not how we imagined it. Now, you might still say "okay, but I still want to be a lawyer", and that's fine - that's where I stand at the moment too. But try and avoid romanticising or idealising the legal career, and that will hopefully help you consider alternative career options and put less pressure on you to succeed in law applications. I was told by someone once that you should try and "maximise your luck surface area" (because there is inevitably some luck involved in all this, I think) - don't put all your eggs in the law basket since there's so many other options out there, and remember that the law basket isn't necessarily the best one out there. I acknowledge of course that I'm saying this from the rather privileged point of working in a well-paid finance job, and you might have different pressures to get a job.
4. You can be proud of the process even if the outcome doesn't follow - even if you don't get an offer, still have pride in the fact you put effort into an application and made it as far as you did in an application process (even if you didn't make it past the application round). Applications take time, and you put in the time to give it your best shot. So be proud of yourself for putting in the work, irrespective of what happens.
I hope some of this helps
I’m going to give my two cents on this topic as someone who’s experienced both sides of the spectrum in the same cycle. I received 17 PFOs this cycle, which undoubtedly made me begin to question my ability to succeed. Applications were incredibly competitive and tough. 🫤
However, instead of focusing on the negatives associated with corporate law (I’m sure there’s many), I spent time thinking about the positive sides to the career and my motivations. Having secured 5 VS’, 3 DTC ACs and 4 TC offers from these, I recognise both sides have truths. 😅
I think two things can be true at once. A career in corporate law or certainly any profession (be it medicine, dentistry, investment banking, etc) can be someone’s dream. It’s equally possible for someone to aspire to travel the world, enjoy their life and still have career ambitions.
I think oversimplifying a career in corporate law to merely ‘sitting at a desk until 3-4am’ or ‘life sat in front of a laptop’ is unfair. There’s more to the career than just that. If it was just that, I doubt any of us would be here using platforms like TCLA at all in the first place. 🥲
Platforms like TCLA exist to help people break into corporate law. There must be some perks to the career that causes thousands of people to apply to city law firms yearly. I wouldn’t say people are lying to themselves into believing a career in corporate law is their dream. 🙂
For some, it’s a stepping stone to their dreams. Some of us don’t have the luxury to ‘travel the world’ or ‘move countries’, especially those who come from working class backgrounds. A corporate law career is what determines dreams for some people and that’s okay. 🙂
People can also chase more than one dream at a time or in their lifetime. It’s certainly possible to attain a city law career AND travel around the world. It doesn’t have to be either or, it can be both. There is more to life than just a career in corporate law, so why not aspire for it all.
I definitely agree that sometimes we think that we really want something only to realise that it isn’t what we envisioned it to be once we get it in the end. However, that doesn’t mean that we can’t still want that thing. It might end up being exactly what we wanted from the start. 👍🏽
Ultimately, it’s important to remember we’re all on our own individual journeys. The people we see securing VS and TCs in their 2nd year also faced their fair share of rejections. We only see people’s success and not the journey they took to achieve that success. 🥲
To anybody who aspires to pursue a corporate law career, please remember rejection is never equivalent to being a failure or not being good enough. Rejection is always redirection. Please be kind to yourselves. The resilience it takes to go through applications is immense. 😀
However, instead of focusing on the negatives associated with corporate law (I’m sure there’s many), I spent time thinking about the positive sides to the career and my motivations. Having secured 5 VS’, 3 DTC ACs and 4 TC offers from these, I recognise both sides have truths. 😅
I think two things can be true at once. A career in corporate law or certainly any profession (be it medicine, dentistry, investment banking, etc) can be someone’s dream. It’s equally possible for someone to aspire to travel the world, enjoy their life and still have career ambitions.
I think oversimplifying a career in corporate law to merely ‘sitting at a desk until 3-4am’ or ‘life sat in front of a laptop’ is unfair. There’s more to the career than just that. If it was just that, I doubt any of us would be here using platforms like TCLA at all in the first place. 🥲
Platforms like TCLA exist to help people break into corporate law. There must be some perks to the career that causes thousands of people to apply to city law firms yearly. I wouldn’t say people are lying to themselves into believing a career in corporate law is their dream. 🙂
For some, it’s a stepping stone to their dreams. Some of us don’t have the luxury to ‘travel the world’ or ‘move countries’, especially those who come from working class backgrounds. A corporate law career is what determines dreams for some people and that’s okay. 🙂
People can also chase more than one dream at a time or in their lifetime. It’s certainly possible to attain a city law career AND travel around the world. It doesn’t have to be either or, it can be both. There is more to life than just a career in corporate law, so why not aspire for it all.
I definitely agree that sometimes we think that we really want something only to realise that it isn’t what we envisioned it to be once we get it in the end. However, that doesn’t mean that we can’t still want that thing. It might end up being exactly what we wanted from the start. 👍🏽
Ultimately, it’s important to remember we’re all on our own individual journeys. The people we see securing VS and TCs in their 2nd year also faced their fair share of rejections. We only see people’s success and not the journey they took to achieve that success. 🥲
To anybody who aspires to pursue a corporate law career, please remember rejection is never equivalent to being a failure or not being good enough. Rejection is always redirection. Please be kind to yourselves. The resilience it takes to go through applications is immense. 😀
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- Sep 7, 2024
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Hi @1stCycleApplicant
Congrats on your offer! In terms of your first question, you could in theory delay the SQE and keep applying elsewhere, especially if you haven’t signed a formal contract or received funding. Most firms don’t bind you until the point at which you accept financial sponsorship, but it’s always worth checking what exactly you’ve agreed to, especially if you've already signed a training contract offer letter off the back of the vac scheme. If no money has changed hands, you likely won't be bound to the firm.
As for the UCL Corporate Law LLM, I wouldn’t say it’s pointless, but it’s also not necessarily going to improve your odds. Having supervised and worked with UCL LLM students during my time working in the faculty, I can say that there were many LLM students who struggled to turn this into an advantage in their application process (even when they did particularly well on their respective courses). If you do the degree, do it because you’re genuinely interested in the material. It might help to some extent, but if the rest of your application isn’t compelling enough to the firms you're applying to, then a master’s degree won’t change that.
I think you'd be better off focusing on how you present your current profile. You’ve already done a vac scheme and secured a TC, which is the kind of experience that could make you attractive to other firms, depending on how you discuss these experiences. I'd recommend spending time getting work experience, sharpening your writing skills, build up your commercial awareness, and understand how to communicate with more clarity in interviews. These will put you in a stronger position come your second application cycle.
For those who submitted their application to HL, after how many days did you receive the WG invite and also, how many days do you have to complete it?
Hello! This is my first post here and I have been following the blog here for a while now.
I have been feeling very disheartened by the whole application process and seeing everyone’s journey in getting a TC has been enlightening.
I have been waiting for a reply from WFW post application, I applied right before the deadline. Should I consider it a PFO?
I have been feeling very disheartened by the whole application process and seeing everyone’s journey in getting a TC has been enlightening.
I have been waiting for a reply from WFW post application, I applied right before the deadline. Should I consider it a PFO?
Has anyone got any insight for slaughter and may interview? I’ve seen people say it’s a bit different to others, any advice on how to best prepare?
I applied on the 19th and received the invite today. The deadline for completion is within 7 days.
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