General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[M777]

Quick point on V&E- While I haven't heard back after doing my VI last month, I've emailed them since then. They confirmed that they're still reviewing applications at all stages, even though they've already completed many assessment centres. I also had two people message me last night telling me they just landed a VI, and asking for advice. I have no idea whether I'll be invited to an AC yet, but anyone still waiting should not lose hope! They may have a small grad rec team + an unprecedented volume of applicants + coronavirus concerns, hence why the process seems a little more delayed than usual

 

[SH414]

Hey Guys,
I had my HD skype interview and was successful. They asked 3 Q's, one about commercial awareness, one about HD and what makes them different and one about your skills. They dont ask follow up questions so deffo use up all the allocated time as I finished my interview early as I thought they'd ask follow ups but they didn't. Hope this helps

Thanks so much for this! In terms of commercial awareness do you mind if I ask what kind of thing they asked about. Like more case study type or general commercial issues that interest you etc.

 

[WMA]

..

Thanks so much for this! In terms of commercial awareness do you mind if I ask what kind of thing they asked about. Like more case study type or general commercial issues that interest you etc.

Hey, it was a little while ago now but it was v general, something along the lines of 'what issues do you see impacting the market' kind of thing. Hope this helps, the questions were all pretty broad so you always had something to draw on which was good

 

[gh1999]

Ok guys got a dilemma. I’ve been offered a direct training contract at a firm and she said I’ll have around 3 weeks to accept but she understands it’s a big decision. I haven’t asked for longer yet. I really like the firm, but I have 3 vacation schemes coming up in June/July. Can I still complete the vac schemes even if I accept? And if I do accept the TC, can I go back on the offer if I get an offer from another firm after the vac scheme?

 

[M&ALawyer]

Ropes & Gray has closed their office today and cancelled their Assesment centre tomorrow due to the Coronavirus.

Hopefully they decide to rearrange it!

 

[Andre]

don't give up! we all get there someday. don't let yourself drown in despondent thoughts like that. attitude/mindset wins/loses you half the battle.

It’s really important you’re sharing this, because honestly you aren’t alone!!!

You will get there. This process is designed to filter out those who give up in the face of multiple rejections.

I have had quite a difficult cycle and have decided to take a break from TC/VS applications and will start again when I am mentally ready. Perhaps taking a break from applications for a couple of weeks or more if necessary will allow you to see your worth and get back on track.

You’ll get the TC. You’re likely almost there. Don’t give up!

Is there any specific feedback that you have had?

I can imagine it may be hard, having done the work of a trainee, to go into these interviews with the same motivation, vigour and enthusiasm that you once had. Don't let that come across! You simply have to be as positive as possible and it will happen.

If there is any way I can help, please let me know.

Just for full disclosure, I had a particular day just about three/four weeks ago where I felt exactly like you do right now and I called Jaysen and the lovely people at Rare Recruitment so panicked (and very teary) because I honestly felt so helpless and demoralised by the constant rejections. I cannot tell you just how happy I am now (weirdly) for those experiences and setbacks because 1. when the offer came through it felt like so much more of an achievement 2. I have developed resilience and have better confidence in my own strength going forwards which will hopefully make me a good trainee and 3. I am so appreciative of the opportunity I have been given because I know how much it has taken me to get here.

Please do not give up!

and also - thank you for your bravery in being honest, i am sure many people on here will feel somewhat reassured that they are not alone in feeling this way

Thank you so much for your support. I am just so down and really feel like everything is so pointless... hopefully things change soon

 

[Ella J]

Just received interview invitation from Katten! Does anyone have any tips?

 

[Daniel Boden]

Ok guys got a dilemma. I’ve been offered a direct training contract at a firm and she said I’ll have around 3 weeks to accept but she understands it’s a big decision. I haven’t asked for longer yet. I really like the firm, but I have 3 vacation schemes coming up in June/July. Can I still complete the vac schemes even if I accept? And if I do accept the TC, can I go back on the offer if I get an offer from another firm after the vac scheme?

If you accept the TC you cannot complete the vac schemes. Yes, whilst a little unethical you can renege on an offer should you choose to! @Jessica Booker will be able to answer this better than I can

 

[D]

Ok guys got a dilemma. I’ve been offered a direct training contract at a firm and she said I’ll have around 3 weeks to accept but she understands it’s a big decision. I haven’t asked for longer yet. I really like the firm, but I have 3 vacation schemes coming up in June/July. Can I still complete the vac schemes even if I accept? And if I do accept the TC, can I go back on the offer if I get an offer from another firm after the vac scheme?

As @Daniel Boden said above. @Jessica Booker will have some advice.

My advice - read the terms of your offer. You may find that your offer and acceptance is only valid if you agree to forego all future VS's.

 

[gricole]

I'm absolutely delighted to announce I've just been offered a place on Gibson Dunn's summer vacation scheme!

After 3 rejections post-AC this cycle, this really is the confidence boost I've needed

Hope others have similarly good news this week!

Congratulations man! You deserve it!

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Thank you so much for your support. I am just so down and really feel like everything is so pointless... hopefully things change soon

As @Daniel Boden said above. @Jessica Booker will have some advice.

My advice - read the terms of your offer. You may find that your offer and acceptance is only valid if you agree to forego all future VS's.

Think this individual PM'd me, here is my response so everyone can see it:

You can renege the offer at a later date if you want to. Only thing stopping you would be if you got any form of financial support from the firm, but that’s not likely to happen until closer to the time of the LPC/SQE.

As you are not employed by the firm you have accepted a TC with (your employment won’t start until you start the TC) you can work for competitors. It would only be an issue if you were already employed by them.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Thank you so much for your support. I am just so down and really feel like everything is so pointless... hopefully things change soon

I might be getting different people mixed up, but aren't you in employment in a firm now as a paralegal? If so, that is something to be positive about. It will be providing you with a lot of opportunities to set you up for your future career.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

If you accept the TC you cannot complete the vac schemes. Yes, whilst a little unethical you can renege on an offer should you choose to! @Jessica Booker will be able to answer this better than I can

There is nothing stopping an individual complete vacation schemes at other firms if they have accepted a training contract elsewhere. It would only be if it states explicitly in the vacation scheme offer documents that they cannot have accepted a TC at another firm that would stop them.

If the firm in question doesn't abide by the code of best recruitment practice and doesn't extend offers until the 15 September of the year as the individual goes into their final year of studies, (https://communities.lawsociety.org....cy/voluntary-code-of-recruitment-for-trainees) then they shouldn't expect the candidates they offer to abide by it either....

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

As @Daniel Boden said above. @Jessica Booker will have some advice.

My advice - read the terms of your offer. You may find that your offer and acceptance is only valid if you agree to forego all future VS's.

I am not convinced the above would be a legitimate T&C in an offer/employment contract. As the individual is not in employment with the firm until the point their TC starts, I don't think they can restrict you from working with competitors before they start.

 

[L.M.P]

Just received interview invitation from Katten! Does anyone have any tips?

Congrats!! Im still waiting!

 

[D]

I am not convinced the above would be a legitimate T&C in an offer/employment contract. As the individual is not in employment with the firm until the point their TC starts, I don't think they can restrict you from working with competitors before they start.

That's quite interesting. This was an explicit term in a friends TC offer at a rather large city firm. Maybe time to do employment law next year!

 

[Andre]

I might be getting different people mixed up, but aren't you in employment in a firm now as a paralegal? If so, that is something to be positive about. It will be providing you with a lot of opportunities to set you up for your future career.

I am but I feel that despite doing everything from networking, Commercial awareness reading and applying daily, nothing is coming from it. Feel so far away from my goal...

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

I'm pretty sure the SRA Code of Conduct requires anyone who has accepted a TC offer to withdraw from all other placements. Otherwise, you are just messing up the opportunities for other students.

You can keep offers open (and complete vac schemes) but after you've accepted it, you gotta kiss goodbye to those other vac schemes.

"Once a student has accepted an offer, the student must inform all other employers who have made a training contract or vacation scheme offer, or invited them to attend an interview, that they have accepted a training contract offer elsewhere and as such are withdrawing from the recruitment process. Furthermore the student will make no further applications for a training contract or vacation scheme." - Law Society website

The SRA are not part of the voluntary code of best recruitment practice anymore - they withdrew from it sometime ago (2015) - http://www.abbeysolicitors.co.uk/news/sra-withdraws-trainee-code-best-practice/. There is nothing in their own code that is about recruitment.

Even if they were still involved, it is a voluntary code. If a firm does not abide by it (in the instance talked about the individual is being given 3 weeks to accept a TC when the code says they should get until the 15 September), then they can't expect candidates to abide by it either.

If it was me, to any firm that I had a vacation scheme with that might have a clause saying I can't accept a VS with them if I had already accepted a TC, I would be explaining that the firm I had the TC offer with wasn't abiding by the code and therefore my hands were tied, and that I would hope they could take that into consideration as they were the firm I would prefer.

 

[Harvey]

The SRA are not part of the voluntary code of best recruitment practice anymore - they withdrew from it sometime ago (2015) - http://www.abbeysolicitors.co.uk/news/sra-withdraws-trainee-code-best-practice/. There is nothing in their own code that is about recruitment.

Even if they were still involved, it is a voluntary code. If a firm does not abide by it (in the instance talked about the individual is being given 3 weeks to accept a TC when the code says they should get until the 15 September), then they can't expect candidates to abide by it either.

Counter argument accepted

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

That's quite interesting. This was an explicit term in a friends TC offer at a rather large city firm. Maybe time to do employment law next year!

Non-competitor clauses are quite common, but typically post employment, not pre-employment. I have seen them in offer letters too, but even then they tend to be more of a "you need to disclose" rather than "you can't" condition.