General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[J88]

@Jessica Booker What's your opinion on IQ tests (not the silly online ones you can take for 5 minutes, but a full battery of different cognitive exercises like verbal reasoning, mental rotation, numerical reasoning that are standardised & taken by thousands of people, like the ones Mensa and other Test providers give out) and their predictive power for job performance, academic success etc.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

@Jessica Booker What's your opinion on IQ tests (not the silly online ones you take for 5 minutes, but a full battery of cognitive exercises like verbal reasoning, mental rotation, numerical reasoning which are standardised and taken by thousands of people, like the ones Mensa and other Test providers give out) and their predictive power for job performance, academic success etc.

Not sure about academic success, but there’s different bits of research that show IQ has little to no correlation to on the job success (not law specific though), while others bits of research that suggests it is.

Ultimately if it was a reliable measure though, people would be using IQ tests as part of the recruitment process. I don’t know anyone who does - although understand there will be correlations/similar themes between IQ tests and some of the psychometric currently used.

EQ is understood to be a much stronger predictor of performance as I understand it.

 

[AC1978]

Hi everyone - am new here but was just wondering whether anyone has heard back from Withers after the AC?

 

[Frank]

I think the reality is probably, as you suggest, somewhere in the middle. Workload is definitely intense; a supervision essay every week compared to friends at other unis who maybe did one/two essay a term definitely requires a lot of effort and teaching in groups of 1-3 means there's nowhere to hid unlike seminars of ~10, but the other side of that coin is you get a ridiculously high volume of feedback and practice before you even get near the exam hall at the end of the year.

With Oxbridge I think it's always important to remember the experience of different students. Broadly, if you're the stereotypical, traditional private schooled student from a stably middle class background then it's a completely congruent experience for you and an environment in which you're going to find it easier to study. By contrast, if you're a 'non-traditional' student from a very different background (as I definitely was) who isn't coming into the setting imbued with all of the social and cultural capital bound up in the Oxbridge teaching system, it's much harder, particularly at first. Of course, this is reflected across all universities too, and is part of the reason I think drawing effective conclusions on institutional levels (like saying it's easy to get a 1st at XYZ university or on ABC course) can be so difficult. The lives and experiences of students at universities are so incredibly varied, that often those conclusions often result in reproducing the power and interest of those with the most privilege.

I’m a non-traditional student who attended a sports high school (from my understanding this doesn’t exist in the UK but in my country it’s one of the worst) and didn’t vibe at all with what you described above about life at Oxbridge

 

[Cer96]

I’m a non-traditional student who attended a sports high school (from my understanding this doesn’t exist in the UK but in my country it’s one of the worst) and didn’t vibe at all with what you described above about life at Oxbridge

Sorry I don’t really understand what you mean! Don’t vibe with the description as in, you disagree and had a different experience? If so, completely get it - main point of that post was to highlight the diversity of experiences people have at Oxbridge (and within most unis) it’s so specific to individual students it’s hard to draw broad conclusions.

Or if you meant didn’t vibe with the experience in that you had a similar one and didn’t enjoy those elements, totally get that too and obvs agree, just wasn’t sure what you meant from your post!

 

[Frank]

Sorry I don’t really understand what you mean! Don’t vibe with the description as in, you disagree and had a different experience? If so, completely get it - main point of that post was to highlight the diversity of experiences people have at Oxbridge (and within most unis) it’s so specific to individual students it’s hard to draw broad conclusions.

Or if you meant didn’t vibe with the experience in that you had a similar one and didn’t enjoy those elements, totally get that too and obvs agree, just wasn’t sure what you meant from your post!

hey sorry for being unclear! The first para is the good interpretation (regarding the non-traditional students) and I agree with what you’ve said. It was an example to your point

 

[EMD]

Has anyone been sent a rejection from Pinsent Masons yet (direct route)? I saw someone from Manchester had been given an offer today which is the office I applied to but I haven’t heard yet so not getting my hopes up.

 

[Shalli]

GLD rejection post VI

 

[e_o]

not necessarily. Some firms may offer before the start of September, but some run their interview processes in September - often because people are away in July/August and they are sometimes waiting for people to accept/decline offers from vacation schemes.

It is always an issue for those who are choosing to do the GDL. My advice to people is to push back on the GDL provider and try to sign up for the course as late as possible - I have never heard of a student missing out on a place on the GDL, and have heard people signing up to the course shortly after the course has started!

Hi Jess, when you say you've heard of people signing up shortly after the course has started, is this a few days or a week or two after?

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Hi Jess, when you say you've heard of people signing up shortly after the course has started, is this a few days or a week or two after?

Been about 7-10 days. I don’t think it is ideal to do this though. There are always also the January intakes for the GDL that might be feasible if the firm does an accelerated LPC.

 

[csyn]

Has anyone heard back from King & Spalding?

Aside from that, hope everyone's bank holiday weekend is going well!

 

[orange32]

Does A&O automatically send you an email confirmation once you've submitted an app? Haven't received one yet and want to make sure app got through

 

[dosblancos7]

Does A&O automatically send you an email confirmation once you've submitted an app? Haven't received one yet and want to make sure app got through

No- instead they send you the SJT after a few minutes(the email is titled Welcome to A&O's SJT, or something along those lines)

 

[33c]

Does A&O automatically send you an email confirmation once you've submitted an app? Haven't received one yet and want to make sure app got through

I still haven't received one and I submitted on Thursday. Emailed and rang grad rec with no response.

 

[J123]

Has anyone heard back from Covington post-app? It's been a while since their deadline, so I'm wondering whether they're just focussing on vac schemers this year.

 

[OB]

I still haven't received one and I submitted on Thursday. Emailed and rang grad rec with no response.

Maybe log in to the portal and check the status of the app

 

[0603]

I still haven't received one and I submitted on Thursday. Emailed and rang grad rec with no response.

I’m having the same issue! I submitted on Thursday too. Got an automated email that said they will send the SJT link within an hour but still hasn’t received it.
Emailed grad rec too but the same outcome as you - no response.
Not sure what to do next..

 

[Velikilawyer123]

Hi all, I recently got feedback from an assessment centre (which I thought I had done really well on) that in 2 of the 3 exercises, the partners thought I came across as "too intense". The HR, who was giving me the feedback, couldn't really give me more details than that since she said the partners had just jotted it down during the interview so she didn't have much more background on what exactly it referred to.

I've really been banging my head over this, trying to analyse what exactly it meant in the context of my assessment centre and the exercises I had done, and how to improve in the future. She did also say I spoke a bit too fast, and while I'm sure that might've contributed to the "too intense" feeling, I suspect it probably goes beyond just speaking too quickly.

Has anyone else been in a similar position before? How did you figure out how to implement such a broad comment in the way you speak, gesticulate, etc. in interviews?

Jessica, if you had given this type of feedback to a candidate, what would it, in your experience, typically refer to?

Thanks!

 

[LegalNim]

Hi all, I recently got feedback from an assessment centre (which I thought I had done really well on) that in 2 of the 3 exercises, the partners thought I came across as "too intense". The HR, who was giving me the feedback, couldn't really give me more details than that since she said the partners had just jotted it down during the interview so she didn't have much more background on what exactly it referred to.

I've really been banging my head over this, trying to analyse what exactly it meant in the context of my assessment centre and the exercises I had done, and how to improve in the future. She did also say I spoke a bit too fast, and while I'm sure that might've contributed to the "too intense" feeling, I suspect it probably goes beyond just speaking too quickly.

Has anyone else been in a similar position before? How did you figure out how to implement such a broad comment in the way you speak, gesticulate, etc. in interviews?

Jessica, if you had given this type of feedback to a candidate, what would it, in your experience, typically refer to?

Thanks!

I don't know you or your situation so not sure whether this will be accurate or helpful.
When I did an assessment centre earlier this year, there was a guy that I would probably describe as "intense" in my group exercise. He was very controlling and dominant and I don't think it came across well. We were supposed to be doing a negotiations exercise but he just refused to give the other side anything (even things our client didn't care about), then when we go to the things our client cared about the other side were reluctant to compromise because they'd already compromised on the stuff we weren't supposed to care about. He didn't convince any of us that it was a good strategy, just insisted to the point where we gave in because we were wasting our entire prep time arguing with him. In this situation, the feedback could be "intense", "overbearing", "controlling", "unwilling to listen to feedback", "unwilling to compromise", "puts own ego before client needs" etc.
My mentor at a different firm told me that when they're interviewing/networking, they use a "long plane journey" test. Basically, could they cope with a long plane journey with this person and not go insane. We all know that the worst person to sit next to on a plane is someone who just does not shut up the entire time and goes on and on and on and on for twelve hours talking about absolutely every single little thing that pops into their head. Perhaps, (probably from nerves or a genuine passion for the firm), you were just talking a bit too much about everything? In this situation, the feedback could be "intense", "unable to focus on one task", "doesn't understand professional boundaries", "unable to work independently", "unable to filter what they'll say in front of clients", "would drive me insane if I were stuck in an office with them until 2am" etc.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Hi all, I recently got feedback from an assessment centre (which I thought I had done really well on) that in 2 of the 3 exercises, the partners thought I came across as "too intense". The HR, who was giving me the feedback, couldn't really give me more details than that since she said the partners had just jotted it down during the interview so she didn't have much more background on what exactly it referred to.

I've really been banging my head over this, trying to analyse what exactly it meant in the context of my assessment centre and the exercises I had done, and how to improve in the future. She did also say I spoke a bit too fast, and while I'm sure that might've contributed to the "too intense" feeling, I suspect it probably goes beyond just speaking too quickly.

Has anyone else been in a similar position before? How did you figure out how to implement such a broad comment in the way you speak, gesticulate, etc. in interviews?

Jessica, if you had given this type of feedback to a candidate, what would it, in your experience, typically refer to?

Thanks!

Although not a uniform response (it will vary between candidates) this type of comment can be down to two things generally.

Nerves can play a part - not just talking too quickly, but never just being at all comfortable or at ease in the process. This could be fidgeting, lacking eye contact/too much eye contact/not knowing where to look - anything that suggests your nerves have just taken over.

The other is that it some people just come across intense through their character. This can be a multitude of things like:

• They take the interview too seriously - they can do things like fail to smile or come across as having a guard up.
• They potentially come across as overly defensive when challenged.
• They talk for too long - their answers become far too detailed and they go off on tangents to try and cover every base going
• They come across as the “perfectionist” - someone who will strive for perfection at all costs to maintain their own sanity

Generally, an “intense” comment is that they just can’t see the person as being easy or pleasant to work with. So if asked any questions about working with others, the answers to those questions might not have been great either.