TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2024-5

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi guys, does anyone have a good website for UK firm rankings? Like what is the most universally recognised - The Lawyer? I know it's not super important I'm just trying to find some info

Hiya @AlegalA

I'm sure @Andrei Radu, @Amma Usman, and @Jessica Booker may have more to add here, but I think this is actually a difficult question to answer because rankings depend on what you're measuring (practice area strength, profitability, headcount, client feedback, training quality, etc.). As I'm sure you already know, different publications rank firms for different purposes. For instance:

• Legal 500 and Chambers UK: These are the most widely used legal directories and rank firms (as well as individual lawyers) by practice area. Although I'm not entirely sure about this, it seems as though their rankings are based largely on client and peer feedback.
  
  
• The Lawyer: This is more commercial/industry-focused. Having read through a lot of their reports, I've found that most of their rankings and data are based on financial performance, RPP, headcount, etc., and they often divide the rankings according to whether they're focussed on UK- and US-headquartered firms.
  
  
• RollOnFriday/Legal Cheek: Based on my own reading of these rankings, I've genereally found that these are more focused on culture, trainee satisfaction, and work-life balance, and very often based on anonymous surveys. This is less “formal” but helpful if you’re choosing where to apply.

If you provide more context and let us know what you're trying to compare or find out (for example, are you comparing firms in a specific practice area, or trying to understand the market more broadly?), I can try to find the most relevant rankings or data for you. Hope that helps

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi guys, does anyone have a good website for UK firm rankings? Like what is the most universally recognised - The Lawyer? I know it's not super important I'm just trying to find some info

I don’t have much to add to Ram’s great response, but just a quick note to be mindful of how rankings are interpreted. A firm might be placed in Band 3 for a broader practice area but still hold a Band 1 position in a specific niche within that area - whether that’s regionally, globally, or based on sector expertise.

For instance, Clyde & Co is highly regarded for its global insurance practice, even if its ranking in broader corporate categories might differ. Similarly, Travers Smith is exceptionally strong in private equity M&A within the UK, even if it appears in a different band in more general corporate rankings.

The point I’m trying to make is that while band rankings are definitely useful and worth considering, they aren’t everything. It’s always helpful to look a bit deeper into what the rankings actually reflect.

 

[andrecsaa]

Hi guys, does anyone have a good website for UK firm rankings? Like what is the most universally recognised - The Lawyer? I know it's not super important I'm just trying to find some info

Unfortunately there is not such a ranking. You need to combine the information.

As said by @Ram Sabaratnam,
Legal 500 and Chambers are mostly based on client and peer feedback. Firms submit forms with 20–40 key publishable and non-publishable matters (deals, litigation, investigations, etc.) and client contacts. They assess the work and feedback to rank individuals and teams. That is why you might see a partner ranked but not the practice area. They probably stand out, but here long term relationships and networking really matter too.

The Lawyer ranks firms by revenue and profit per partner. I believe that UK firms are required to publish annual reports with this info. Still, those reports can give you a deeper view of their strategy beyond just financials.

Legal Cheek, Chambers Student and RollOnFriday are good sources for day to day insights from the trainees and associates. Also consider the UKLaw community at Reddit. I have seen interesting (anonymous) comments from people moving between firms or quitting private practice, including partners.

 

[trainee4u]

I don’t have much to add to Ram’s great response, but just a quick note to be mindful of how rankings are interpreted. A firm might be placed in Band 3 for a broader practice area but still hold a Band 1 position in a specific niche within that area - whether that’s regionally, globally, or based on sector expertise.

For instance, Clyde & Co is highly regarded for its global insurance practice, even if its ranking in broader corporate categories might differ. Similarly, Travers Smith is exceptionally strong in private equity M&A within the UK, even if it appears in a different band in more general corporate rankings.

The point I’m trying to make is that while band rankings are definitely useful and worth considering, they aren’t everything. It’s always helpful to look a bit deeper into what the rankings actually reflect.

yes.
i was looking at https://www.legal500.com/firms/903-devonshires-solicitors-llp/r-england/rankings

and it shows for London

Band 1 - Debt Recovery
Band 1 - Social housing: finance
Band 1 - Social housing: LAs and RPs

this might suggest similar capabilities in Debt Recovery and Social housing.

However, in reality 100+ of the firm's lawyers deal with social housing and only around four with debt recovery.

Therefore, the firm's competitors are in reality those that deal with Social Housing, and even within the "Debt Recovery" rankings, which are rather small, competitors don't always appear to be competing for the same clients. So just looking at rankings can give a totally distorted view of firm's revenue, especially also where it's a competitive area, and the firm is perhaps "band 2" for a certain practice area but in reality for that firm, that's its main practice area.

 

[Amma Usman]

yes.
i was looking at https://www.legal500.com/firms/903-devonshires-solicitors-llp/r-england/rankings

and it shows for London

Band 1 - Debt Recovery
Band 1 - Social housing: finance
Band 1 - Social housing: LAs and RPs

this might suggest similar capabilities in Debt Recovery and Social housing.

However, in reality 100+ of the firm's lawyers deal with social housing and only around four with debt recovery.

Therefore, the firm's competitors are in reality those that deal with Social Housing, and even within the "Debt Recovery" rankings, which are rather small, competitors don't always appear to be competing for the same clients. So just looking at rankings can give a totally distorted view of firm's revenue, especially also where it's a competitive area, and the firm is perhaps "band 2" for a certain practice area but in reality for that firm, that's its main practice area.

Exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. Well done! If you’re keen on identifying a law firm’s competitors too, I have linked this here to help - https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....to-identifying-a-law-firm’s-competitors.9422/

 

[trainee4u]

Exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. Well done! If you’re keen on identifying a law firm’s competitors too, I have linked this here to help - https://www.thecorporatelawacademy.com/forum/threads/guide-to-identifying-a-law-firm’s-competitors.9422/

that's a good guide; one thing I also did to better identify a firm's revenue and therefore its competitors is download the lawyers' profiles using a script into a spreadsheet with areas of expertise for each lawyer, which can then be easily summed (including also an AI-generated summary of their expertise and experience):


(this can still be a misleading as "dispute resolution" might well cover quite different areas of litigation)

 

[optimistic_undergrad]

That would be excellent news, really.

How so? Even if they haven't got as many applications as they might have expected, they'll still maintain their standards, right? So if not for your good performance, the selection has nothing to do with the number of applications imo.

 

[Tintin06]

How so? Even if they haven't got as many applications as they might have expected, they'll still maintain their standards, right? So if not for your good performance, the selection has nothing to do with the number of applications imo.

More chance of getting an interview?

 

[Rasma123]

I haven't heard from them either but it is true that it is application and then straight to AC if successful

Really? I thought the next stage would be a telephone interview for PMC?

 

[toad92]

Been putting off Kingsley Napley’s TC questions until today because wtf 🫠

Even went to have a coffee with a
mutual friend who’s a KN associate to talk about life at the firm etc, I told her the questions and as someone who obviously knows the clients and work they do, she was also puzzled lmao

New managing partner trying to get ideas for growth from its potential future trainees rather than its associates and partners? Interesting strategy 🤣

 

[optimistic_undergrad]

Been putting off Kingsley Napley’s TC questions until today because wtf 🫠

Even went to have a coffee with a
mutual friend who’s a KN associate to talk about life at the firm etc, I told her the questions and as someone who obviously knows the clients and work they do, she was also puzzled lmao

New managing partner trying to get ideas for growth from its potential future trainees rather than its associates and partners? Interesting strategy 🤣

The question in the DTC application of Baker McKenzie was of a similar nature, right?

 

[Anissa]

Has anyone heard anything from Withers for the DTC after the test?

I haven't even received the test, how long after applying have you received it ?

 

[Anissa]

Withers interview invite! Does anyone have any insights/tips? It's for 1 hour with a member of HR and a Partner

Congrats !! When did you apply ?

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

I haven't even received the test, how long after applying have you received it ?

I received it the day after applying. Some people on the thread say it's automatic, but the wording on the invite suggests it was not.

 

[Aimeeb7]

I just completed the Browne Jacobson amberjack assessment and got my feedback report straight away, but it had someone else’s name on it. I’ve emailed them but I can’t work out if it’s my assessment feedback with the wrong name or just someone else’s altogether. Has this happened to anyone else?

 

[wannabe_solicitor]

Orrick DTC q2: ‘Why have you decided to pursue a career as a commercial lawyer in an international law firm’ 250words

Q1 is a cover letter. So I was gonna focus more on the international law firm part in q2 rather than the “why commercial law”. Would people agree or should I try and fit in commercial law stuff too? Thanks

 

[toad92]

The question in the DTC application of Baker McKenzie was of a similar nature, right?

Not sure, rejected post vac scheme VI so not sure they’d have wanted me to apply DTC too lmaoo

Difference is, KN is a firm with a lot of focus on criminal litigation + public, with smaller commercial teams, and with only one office here in London…. Bakers is already a global commercial law firm with loads of offices and a clear international focus 😭

 

[Gin]

Finally Monday is coming and I could start begging for emails again.

 

[TCseeker101]

Congrats !! When did you apply ?

Thanks! I applied early March

 

[optimistic_undergrad]

Not sure, rejected post vac scheme VI so not sure they’d have wanted me to apply DTC too lmaoo

Difference is, KN is a firm with a lot of focus on criminal litigation + public, with smaller commercial teams, and with only one office here in London…. Bakers is already a global commercial law firm with loads of offices and a clear international focus 😭

Not exactly what I meant originally, but yeah, understandable. Have a nice day!