TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[billyonthespeeddial]

They have kept me on hold as well, not sure if a follow-up email is necessary or if I should just assume a rejection haha

If there is no second batch, the last interviews are taking place tomorrow. Sadly I think it might be a rejection

 

[johnnysins]

If there is no second batch, the last interviews are taking place tomorrow. Sadly I think it might be a rejection

Yeap seems like the most sensible option

 

[Hghasvision]

@

You will need to send something in writing to formally withdraw your candidacy. If this is before you have taken any financial support or started the onboarding process for the GDL/SQE, then this will be fairly straight forward. Normally I would recommend speaking to the GR/HR team over the phone before sending something in writing, especially if you have had a lot of interaction with the firm (such as attending a vacation scheme), but a lot of people don't feel comfortable doing this and so they just send an email instead.

I would recommend being clear on why you are reneging. If you don't, the firm is likely to ask why you are reneging anyway, so probably worthwhile disclosing anyway. The firm is likely to ask which firm you will be joining instead if you are reneging for another offer.

Thanks for this @Jessica Booker Can I ask why they ask which firm I am joining - is it to contact them? I wouldn't want to risk losing my other offer

 

[Jessica Booker]

@

Thanks for this Jessica! Can I ask why they ask which firm I am joining - is it to contact them? I wouldn't want to risk losing my other offer

No - they won’t contact the firm. That’s a breach of GDPR.

They want to know who they are losing talent to. It’s a legitimate question to ask. I have asked this question to anyone who has turned down any job I have been recruiting for. Recruiters need to know who they are losing talent to so they can ensure future recruitment is more successful.

 

[AS24]

Has anyone completed a summer vacation scheme AC at Mishcon on the first of April and received a response from the firm?

 

[heyheyyy]

Does anyone have tips on the final training contract interview (post-vacation scheme). I was wondering how you can use your vacation scheme experience to support your answer of Why do you want to work at this firm and why law. Thank you !

 

[a512003]

You will need to send something in writing to formally withdraw your candidacy. If this is before you have taken any financial support or started the onboarding process for the GDL/SQE, then this will be fairly straight forward. Normally I would recommend speaking to the GR/HR team over the phone before sending something in writing, especially if you have had a lot of interaction with the firm (such as attending a vacation scheme), but a lot of people don't feel comfortable doing this and so they just send an email instead.

I would recommend being clear on why you are reneging. If you don't, the firm is likely to ask why you are reneging anyway, so probably worthwhile disclosing anyway. The firm is likely to ask which firm you will be joining instead if you are reneging for another offer.

This is super helpful thank you- could I ask how/if the process would change if you had already started onboarding for a course? I imagine you would have to pay back any money the firm has paid to enrol you in the course, but presuming that the course hasn't started yet (e.g. you withdraw in July) is it reasonable to assume this would just be a deposit, not the entire course fees?

 

[Jessica Booker]

This is super helpful thank you- could I ask how/if the process would change if you had already started onboarding for a course? I imagine you would have to pay back any money the firm has paid to enrol you in the course, but presuming that the course hasn't started yet (e.g. you withdraw in July) is it reasonable to assume this would just be a deposit, not the entire course fees?

I don't think you can assume it would just be the deposit - the firm could be liable for the full fees, especially if they cannot back fill your place.

Generally my advice is at the point you are starting onboarding processes you are making a commitment to the firm that is sponsoring you. If you are unsure about joining the firm, it is probably best to consider asking the firm to defer you or to decline the offer you have been given.

 

[badmintonflyinginsect]

scared i might not convert my VS into TC. 6 offers went out on thursday from 15 of us. i dont think they have more.

 

[helenaskelton]

Has anyone heard from Stephenson Harwood post VI?

 

[Starfish31]

Hey guys, sorry if this is the same type of question being mentioned again but I just got a Travers Smith offer and they do two dates - is there any advantage to doing an earlier date or are the chances of getting a TC equal?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey guys, sorry if this is the same type of question being mentioned again but I just got a Travers Smith offer and they do two dates - is there any advantage to doing an earlier date or are the chances of getting a TC equal?

I would go with the dates that works best for you - your chances will not be determined by which scheme you do.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Anyone have advice on how to convert VS to TC, I keep struggling starting to think I might never will?

Hi @Kodak123 I know how difficult it must feel to be rejected after a VS, but you should know that getting to this stage already demonstrates that you have everything it takes to succeed. Conversion is a game of really small margins and luck certainly plays a significant role, as different firms will weigh assessment criteria differently in their decision-making - a candidate that would be offered the TC with no second thoughts at one firm might well be rejected by another. That said, of course you want to be proactive in integrating feedback and doing all you can to maximize your conversion chances for future vacation schemes. I have collated bellow some of my best advice.

Firstly, consider doing the following in the preparation period before the vacation scheme starts:

1. Review you firm research and answers for motivational questions: in many of the conversations you will be having with people at the firm, and in particular with the more senior practitioners, you will likely be asked some questions around your interest in the firm and your general motivations and journey. While they will not be assessed like formal interviews, it is important to impress, or at the very least not to make a bad impression. Also, this will be a good opportunity to see if you can update and add any insights to your answers (ie you might mention a deal or award that the firm recently got) which will distinguish you from others.
2. Brush up on your commercial awareness: while the specific way commercial awareness matters for the purposes of conversion tends to differ on a firm by firm basis, it is almost always an important factor. As such, in the coming weeks before the VS I would pay extra close attention to business news and see if there are any updates I should be aware about on important topics (inflation and monetary figures, economic growth, capital markets and dealmaking activity, etc). At the same time, try to fill any gaps in your general knowledge of how businesses work, the different economic sectors, and the roles and functions of the different actors and instruments in the world of finance and investing. I highly recommend Investopedia to build up your knowledge of business jargon.
3. Research the practice areas you will sit in: once you find out what your seats will be, take some time to understand what it is exactly lawyers in those practices do - why do clients need their services, and how do those services differ from those offered by other practice areas? Furthermore, try to get an understanding as to how delivering those services works in practice: what are the different workstreams and tasks involved on typical client matters, and which of those are trainees/vacation schemers most likely to work on? For this, I highly recommend the Westlaw/Practical Law Introductory Practice Area Guides; they go in a lot more detail than you will be expected to know but are the most comprehensive resource I know of.
4. Reach out and build rapport with people at the firm: It is always a good idea to try to build rapport early with people at the firm. As such, you could consider sending a LinkedIn text/email asking for advice or a chat with a trainee at the firm, particularly if you have met them in the past. I would also target people who are currently doing a seat in the practice area you have been allocated, as they will be able to give you the best advice on preparation. Building rapport with them is also particularly important, as graduate recruitment tends to emphasize the reviews of people in your seat when collating input for a TC offer decision. However, avoid appearing overeager and annoying people with busy schedules. Be very straightforward about your intentions and show your appreciation for the time they decide to give to you.

As for what to do during the vacation scheme itself, I advise the following:

• Be confident: while it sounds very cliche, I think this is a key factor impacting conversion chances. Having gotten to this stage out of a huge pool of applicants, you should be certain of the fact that you are an exceptional candidate and have everything you need to succeed. However, I have seen many people simply get too intimidated by the context of a prestigious commercial law firm, which disabled them from showing their skills, knowledge, and personality. Aim not to do that: be active, ask many questions, and communicate your thoughts and views, even if you are not 100% sure they are completely accurate.
• Be proactive and do your tasks well: an important trait firms look for in candidates is enthusiasm and initiative, so you definitely try to show that. One of the best ways of doing it is not waiting to be given work, but proactively going around and asking for it. When receiving a piece of work, I advise you to ask for detailed instruction, useful resources, supporting or guiding materials (such as similar work products completed by others in the past), and details as to deadlines and the expected time this should take to complete. At the end, it is always good to ask for feedback and then to try to act upon it on further tasks.
• Find out what are the most important assessment criteria for conversion (particularly by speaking with grad rec or current trainees): Different firms have different policies - for instance, in my case conversion at Slaughter and May was 100% determined by the final TC interview and written task, at Willkie it was mostly determined by the quality of your work and your integration in the firm's culture, at Milbank it was a combination of the final assessment and the impression you left on people on your team. To maximize conversion chances, you should modify your approach to match the factors emphasized by each firm.
• Take notes and be reflective: as you go through the vacation scheme, at the end of each day, write down a short summary of what you did: who did you meet and what did you learn from them, what tasks did you work on, what sessions did you attend etc. Firstly, this will help you in better answering some of the common questions you get when interacting with people at the firm ('How are you finding the experience?' etc. Secondly, as you approach the final interview, this will help you with being reflecting about the experience and showing that you have taken all the opportunities the firm offered.
• Meet as many people as possible, particularly in your department, but do not overdo it. Of course, it is great to integrate yourself as much as you can and to make as many people as possible notice you. However, you should not be spending every second of the day inviting people for coffee chats. Firstly, there are many other things you should be doing, like getting involved in different workstreams, attending sessions, and deepening your relationship with people you have already met, such as your supervisor. Secondly, as you will know, lawyers are often very stressed and have very little free time on their hands. Most will accept coffee chat requests, but they will appreciate if you do not waste their time by asking to meet only with a view of getting them to potentially put in a good word for you. Thus, I would advise you to always have a genuine reason for meeting someone. That does not need to necessarily be work-related - you can simply ask for a coffee chat because you want to introduce yourself and get to know people in the firm - but you should be upfront about it. Furthermore, try to get an idea from your supervisor as to who is more and less busy at the moment and avoid targeting the former.
• Mirror the attitude of those around you, and know when to be more relaxed: a crucial element of succeeding in many vacation schemes is to be able to build rapport with a few important people - particularly your supervisor, one or two lawyers you will get to work more with, and the recruitment partners. Try to read the attitude and expectations of those people and do not always attempt to impress them. In my experience, the people who ended up not converting tended to be the slightly overbearing ones who wanted to be constantly seen. Sometimes, such as at an event over drinks or at a lunch, people will want to simply relax a bit and forget about work. Other times, they may be too busy and stressed to want to engage with you about something serious. They could and also many times do want to take a slightly more lighthearted approach when talking about their work, so try not to seem like you are taking yourself too seriously. From what I have seen, people more often fail in adapting to these circumstances rather that when adapting to more formal dynamics.

 

[Fitzroy]

I’m currently assuming a PFO, but has anyone actually been rejected from Mischon post Summer Vac scheme VI yet?

They suggested they’d respond by the end of March, now it’s the end of April and I’ve heard nothing 🤔

 

[Flu1dity]

I’m currently assuming a PFO, but has anyone actually been rejected from Mischon post Summer Vac scheme VI yet?

They suggested they’d respond by the end of March, now it’s the end of April and I’ve heard nothing 🤔

The AC's were all end of March/start of April so I'm afraid you're assuming correctly

 

[Amma Usman]

If the firm have offered to reimburse travel costs is it normal to request this before or after the event?

Usually after the event, as sometimes this isn’t done just by email, but by forms sent to attendees, so they can confirm who attended the event. This is usually done by sending pictures of your travel tickets, bank statements, etc. However, there may also be flexibility to request earlier, if you contact the firm.

 

[Amma Usman]

Does anyone have tips on the final training contract interview (post-vacation scheme). I was wondering how you can use your vacation scheme experience to support your answer of Why do you want to work at this firm and why law. Thank you !

Hey!

A lot of your answers will come down to the interactions you had with people during the scheme. Definitely reference those coffee chats or informal conversations with trainees, associates, or partners. Mention specific things they told you that you didn’t know before, especially if it gave you a new perspective on the firm or the type of work they do. It shows you were curious, reflective, and really making the most of your time there.

You can also talk about how certain tasks or departments you rotated through helped confirm your interest in specific practice areas or exposed you to something completely new that excited you. If you got feedback on a piece of work, that’s also worth bringing up to show that you were actively learning and growing.

Before a vacation scheme, it’s really hard to know what a firm’s culture is like from just research and open days. But now you’ve experienced it first-hand, so you can speak confidently about what the environment felt like and how it suits your personality. That could be anything from the support you received, how approachable people were, the way teams worked together, or how much responsibility you were given.

Link all of that back to yourself and explain why you see yourself fitting in there long-term. Go beyond just being able to do the work and talk about why you’d enjoy being part of that firm’s community and how you’d contribute to it. It shows maturity and self-awareness.

Also, think about how the scheme challenged you. Were there moments that took you out of your comfort zone? How did you handle that and what did it show you about yourself? That reflection can feed into your answer for why law, because it shows that even when the job is tough, you're motivated to keep growing and pushing yourself.

Another thing you could mention is how the scheme helped you understand the firm's broader goals or strategy. For example, if a partner spoke about the firm's growth in a specific region or sector, and that aligns with your interests, it's worth referencing. It shows commercial awareness and that you understand where the firm is headed.

Finally, don’t forget to highlight the softer aspects. If you saw examples of strong mentoring, genuine collaboration, etc, those are great to include too. They speak to the kind of environment you want to develop in, and why that specific firm is where you see yourself building a career.

Hope that helps and best of luck, you’ve got this!

 

[Amma Usman]

scared i might not convert my VS into TC. 6 offers went out on thursday from 15 of us. i dont think they have more.

I wouldn’t lose hope just yet. It might just be more operational than anything else - they’re probably still collating feedback, scheduling decision meetings, or finalising numbers. You’ve done the hard part by getting the scheme and showing up. Just try to breathe a bit.. you’ve got this! Try doing something to get your mind off it, like going for a walk, meeting up with friends, etc.

 

[Amma Usman]

Received a PFO from Paul,Weiss, as expected tbh, but pretty demoralising that they took this long to hand it to me.

I’m really sorry to hear that, but please remember this doesn’t take away from all the hard work you’ve put in. It’s okay to feel disappointed, and it’s completely valid to take a moment to process that. But don’t let this keep you down. Every person in this field has faced rejection at some point - it’s a shared experience that doesn’t reflect your worth or abilities. You’re doing all the right things, and this is just one part of your journey. Take the time you need to feel the emotions, and when you’re ready, pick yourself up and keep going. There are so many opportunities still ahead, and this doesn’t define your path or limit what you can achieve.

You’ve got this, and I really believe in your potential.

 

[ashwright]

Hi @ashwright and huge congratulations, I'm so happy to hear the news 🥳🥳 ! First off, my advice is to take a moment to celebrate this before jumping into preparations; I remember the first time I got an AC invite, it was one of the most exciting moments in my life - probably even more than when I got a VS or TC offer! After dealing with a lot of insecurity because of my past rejections, this was the first time I remember think 'I can actually do this' and also fully believing it, so looking back I wish I had cherished the moment a bit more rather than jumping straight away to chase the next thing.

As for advice around identifying and articulating legal issues arising from a business proposal, I think you should essentially analyze the proposed dealing by constantly asking yourself questions such as:

• What exactly is each party promising here? How do I make sure this is enforceable?
• What could go wrong with the transaction? What commercial risks does accepting this proposal imply? Is there any way such risks can be mitigated via legal instruments?
• Are there any potential legal liabilities resulting from this? Is there any way that the proposed transaction, or elements it entails, are contrary to law/regulations?

Essentially, for any piece of information give, I think you need to ask yourself (i) is there any way this entails a risk, even if a remote one? is there anything here that could go wrong and cause some sort of harm to my client?; and if the answer is yes, then ask (ii) how is this connected to law and how can it be remedied? This mindset is partly why some people describe the job of commercial lawyers as that of a "risk-mitigator"

Now, what exactly those risks are will greatly depend on the specifics of the business proposal. However, I think you can improve your chances of spotting by learning about the following:

• General business risks and costs: by familiarizing yourself with the kind of things businesses need to be aware about in general, you increase your odds of identifying their particular instantiations in the exercise. I have linked here an introductory Investopedia article on the topic.
• Risks involved in contracts: since any business proposal, if accepted, is likely to take the form of a contract, it is helpful to have a basic understanding of the risks involved in transactions and how contractual provisions can address them. In particular, have a look for how to address liability exposure in case of breach, management of disputes, termination rights, force majeure clauses, reputational risks, and interpretation of ambiguous terms.
• M&A risks: M&A transactions are the most common type of business proposal encountered in ACs, so I think it is definitely useful to understand the basic terms that go into this type of deal and the types of harms they protect parties from. I would have a look in particular at NDAs, warranties, indemnities, disclosure schedules, change of control clauses, employee retention, IP ownership, and conditions precedent (which is where we would require, for instance, clearance from the competition law authorities) .

Andrei, you are my hero.
Guess who got offered the role?

Thank you, thank you, and thank you. You deserve a shower of gratitude which no combination of the 26 letters of the alphabet can convey. The most accurate statement of my feelings is simply: you are incredible.

Quite frankly, I am in disbelief - I did not think I would land the role. Yet, thanks to your knowledge and kindness, I was able to do so. You are a miracle worker. I am so unbelieveably grateful to you for sharing your well-informed and incisive insights with me. Not only did you help me through my first AC, you also helped me with my confidence - be it explicitly or implicitly, your support continually built me up.
Thank you so much for helping my life so much.