An Entrepreneur's TC Journey

[Shiv Lawy]

I'm halfway through my applications and feeling demotivated so I'll stop being a lurker and share my progress.

I'm almost 27, with a troubled educational history but lots of 'client-side' finance experience. I've also built a consulting business in a niche area and freelance for Private Equity and other startups.
Switching to law now as it was a long-time dream, I almost did the PGDL in 2020 but COVID + securing a decent finance job changed my path. Now I've come full circle because I love doing client advisory, working with funds and asset managers more strategically and enjoy the legal aspects of running my business.

A-levels: ABB (STEM +General Studies A ) (Had ECs but hard to prove)

Undergrad: Physics BSc @ KCL (RG) - 2:1 (barely- but had very serious ECs second year)

Postgrad: MBA (concentration in finance) with Merit (68%), Passed CFA level 1

Professional Experience:

• 3 Years at a top 5 US Investment Manager, technology + operations (lots of dealing with client proposals, data, and ensuring investment compliance)
• 1 Year in UK House of Commons working as MP staffer (Drafting policy/casework/helping with progression of bills)
• 1.5 Years founding a niche consultancy business while doing a full-time MBA (All the legal business admin)
• Half a year ish as a PE/VC consultant advising fund managers (fund-of-funds/advisory/evaluating LPAs etc)

Law Experience:

• Mini-pupillage at a Civil law Chambers (as a third year undergrad)
• Accredited mediation training
• A couple of Moots
• VP KCL Bar and mooting society
• Shadowing a startup solicitor

I'm aiming for firms with a large Fund/Investment and Private Equity practise, and thinking US firms because they value entrepreneurship and care less about grades...
I'm worried that my A-levels will come back to bite me- so I'm not applying to MC.
I interview well and have lots of commercial awareness from finance but feel like I can never outrun my grades.

Any feedback or tips would be appreciated!

 

[AnnonymousOtter]

I'm halfway through my applications and feeling demotivated so I'll stop being a lurker and share my progress.

I'm almost 27, with a troubled educational history but lots of 'client-side' finance experience. I've also built a consulting business in a niche area and freelance for Private Equity and other startups.
Switching to law now as it was a long-time dream, I almost did the PGDL in 2020 but COVID + securing a decent finance job changed my path. Now I've come full circle because I love doing client advisory, working with funds and asset managers more strategically and enjoy the legal aspects of running my business.

A-levels: ABB (STEM +General Studies A ) (Had ECs but hard to prove)

Undergrad: Physics BSc @ KCL (RG) - 2:1 (barely- but had very serious ECs second year)

Postgrad: MBA (concentration in finance) with Merit (68%), Passed CFA level 1

Professional Experience:

• 3 Years at a top 5 US Investment Manager, technology + operations (lots of dealing with client proposals, data, and ensuring investment compliance)
• 1 Year in UK House of Commons working as MP staffer (Drafting policy/casework/helping with progression of bills)
• 1.5 Years founding a niche consultancy business while doing a full-time MBA (All the legal business admin)
• Half a year ish as a PE/VC consultant advising fund managers (fund-of-funds/advisory/evaluating LPAs etc)

Law Experience:

• Mini-pupillage at a Civil law Chambers (as a third year undergrad)
• Accredited mediation training
• A couple of Moots
• VP KCL Bar and mooting society
• Shadowing a startup solicitor

I'm aiming for firms with a large Fund/Investment and Private Equity practise, and thinking US firms because they value entrepreneurship and care less about grades...
I'm worried that my A-levels will come back to bite me- so I'm not applying to MC.
I interview well and have lots of commercial awareness from finance but feel like I can never outrun my grades.

Any feedback or tips would be appreciated!

I wouldn’t let your grades from a decade ago define your entire narrative. For many firms, your professional track record and postgraduate achievements (your MBA and CFA Level 1) will carry far more weight. Some firms tend to hire mostly recent graduates, which may be a limiting factor there. However, there's still a lot of firms that review their candidates' profiles holistically, and your extensive experience speaks louder than any grade from years ago. Focus your energy on firms that value commercial insight and mature candidates as your profile is a great fit for them.

 

[FutureTrainee213]

Hey, well done for sharing your journey. It was something I was a little sceptical of doing at first during my time with applications but it really helped with holding myself accountable and being able to visualise my progress - so good start and keep it up!

First of all, you should be really proud of your achievements. An MBA, a start-up, accredited qualifications – all at the age of 27? It’s very obvious that you’re capable of achieving a lot, so well done!

As for your grades, you’re worried that they’ll come back to bite you, but why do you feel that way? I understand that it may seem like city law requires a certain blueprint for future trainees, but it’s actually rarely the case anymore. A majority of law firms, including 4/5 of the MC firms do not have minimum A-Level requirements, and all 5 require a minimum 2:1 in your degree. Based off that alone, you pretty much qualify without the need for EC’s. That being said, I would still advise including this as it helps build an understanding of what you were going through at the time. Don’t worry about evidence at this stage, that can be a conversation with the firm at a later date should the need ever arise.

It seems like you’re filling yourself with the same self-doubt all applicants do at one stage. I know I did. For reference, I got BCC at A-level and went to a clearance university, and still managed to intern at Slaughter at May, work as a paralegal at Freshfields and secure a TC with Travers Smith (all of who, at the time had minimum A-Level requirements that I did not meet). Grades do not define you, but your overall application does.

So, my suggestion would be to rid yourself of the self-doubt, it’s not real – just a mental blocker that would do you no good as you continue with the application cycle. Instead, remain focused on your end goal here, and once you’ve finished with an application, move onto your next one and try not to think about the ones you’ve just sent.

If however, you feel this way because of rejections your facing (which, may not be the case here as it appears to be your first cycle), then let me share a little reality that you probably hadn’t considered before, thanks to my brief stint in graduate recruitment. Rejections feel like an indication that you’re not good enough, and when they seem consistent, it can definitely solidify that feeling. However, you never know what number you were on their list of invites. Perhaps you were number 35/500 and they could only shortlist 20, and maybe the time after that were number 23/500 and they could still only shortlist 20. Of course, to any applicant – the rejection itself will appear as is, but there is sometimes a hidden element of success that you don’t get to see (the improvement). So don’t give up, who knows, you may be number 12/500 very soon…

P.S. I was rejected two times from Travers Smith before I finally got the TC 😉

 

[Shiv Lawy]

Hey, well done for sharing your journey. It was something I was a little sceptical of doing at first during my time with applications but it really helped with holding myself accountable and being able to visualise my progress - so good start and keep it up!

First of all, you should be really proud of your achievements. An MBA, a start-up, accredited qualifications – all at the age of 27? It’s very obvious that you’re capable of achieving a lot, so well done!

As for your grades, you’re worried that they’ll come back to bite you, but why do you feel that way? I understand that it may seem like city law requires a certain blueprint for future trainees, but it’s actually rarely the case anymore. A majority of law firms, including 4/5 of the MC firms do not have minimum A-Level requirements, and all 5 require a minimum 2:1 in your degree. Based off that alone, you pretty much qualify without the need for EC’s. That being said, I would still advise including this as it helps build an understanding of what you were going through at the time. Don’t worry about evidence at this stage, that can be a conversation with the firm at a later date should the need ever arise.

It seems like you’re filling yourself with the same self-doubt all applicants do at one stage. I know I did. For reference, I got BCC at A-level and went to a clearance university, and still managed to intern at Slaughter at May, work as a paralegal at Freshfields and secure a TC with Travers Smith (all of who, at the time had minimum A-Level requirements that I did not meet). Grades do not define you, but your overall application does.

So, my suggestion would be to rid yourself of the self-doubt, it’s not real – just a mental blocker that would do you no good as you continue with the application cycle. Instead, remain focused on your end goal here, and once you’ve finished with an application, move onto your next one and try not to think about the ones you’ve just sent.

If however, you feel this way because of rejections your facing (which, may not be the case here as it appears to be your first cycle), then let me share a little reality that you probably hadn’t considered before, thanks to my brief stint in graduate recruitment. Rejections feel like an indication that you’re not good enough, and when they seem consistent, it can definitely solidify that feeling. However, you never know what number you were on their list of invites. Perhaps you were number 35/500 and they could only shortlist 20, and maybe the time after that were number 23/500 and they could still only shortlist 20. Of course, to any applicant – the rejection itself will appear as is, but there is sometimes a hidden element of success that you don’t get to see (the improvement). So don’t give up, who knows, you may be number 12/500 very soon…

P.S. I was rejected two times from Travers Smith before I finally got the TC 😉

Thank you this is the pep talk I needed to hear this morning 🫡 You're awesome for posting this.

I'm very inspired by your journey and perseverance and it's very helpful to get some insight into how the shortlisting process works.

It is my first cycle but I've previously tried for years to get into grad schemes at the big banks, and believe it or not it's even worse than law- no questions asked, no EC statement boxes just did you do the right heavily competitive internships or not. I'm demotivated by the effort I put into finance qualifications without really getting anywhere so I assumed law would be the same.

You're right I will stop worrying about the grades, there's nothing really I can do about it now and fingers crossed it doesn't matter.

Thanks for sharing and have a great day!

 

[Shiv Lawy]

I wouldn’t let your grades from a decade ago define your entire narrative. For many firms, your professional track record and postgraduate achievements (your MBA and CFA Level 1) will carry far more weight. Some firms tend to hire mostly recent graduates, which may be a limiting factor there. However, there's still a lot of firms that review their candidates' profiles holistically, and your extensive experience speaks louder than any grade from years ago. Focus your energy on firms that value commercial insight and mature candidates as your profile is a great fit for them.

Thank you- it's hard not to fixate on the weak parts of an application, but will try to keep it in perspective that recruiters as human too. Just have to find the right firms for me and be selective about it.

 

[FutureTrainee213]

Thank you this is the pep talk I needed to hear this morning 🫡 You're awesome for posting this.

I'm very inspired by your journey and perseverance and it's very helpful to get some insight into how the shortlisting process works.

It is my first cycle but I've previously tried for years to get into grad schemes at the big banks, and believe it or not it's even worse than law- no questions asked, no EC statement boxes just did you do the right heavily competitive internships or not. I'm demotivated by the effort I put into finance qualifications without really getting anywhere so I assumed law would be the same.

You're right I will stop worrying about the grades, there's nothing really I can do about it now and fingers crossed it doesn't matter.

Thanks for sharing and have a great day!

No worries, and there is no such thing as wasted effort. Who knows, those finance qualifications you worked hard to get could come in handy when it comes to seat selection or NQ consideration… maybe it was destiny

 

[shadowboxer909]

All of that sounds like you've accomplished a decent amount.

I've done my CFA Level 2 (doing my Level 3 next year) and in my experience, you never know when it could be an interview starter.

It's a bit of a game of luck I think. Banks are very different to law firms - if you're applying for front office positions, they strongly discourage career changers. That's not the case for law firms as they tend to be much more open to everyone applying.

Banks also tend to recruit from a much smaller pool of universities as well. Law firms are much more flexible about the universities they choose. There are also far more law jobs than there are banking jobs.

 

[Shiv Lawy]

All of that sounds like you've accomplished a decent amount.

I've done my CFA Level 2 (doing my Level 3 next year) and in my experience, you never know when it could be an interview starter.

It's a bit of a game of luck I think. Banks are very different to law firms - if you're applying for front office positions, they strongly discourage career changers. That's not the case for law firms as they tend to be much more open to everyone applying.

Banks also tend to recruit from a much smaller pool of universities as well. Law firms are much more flexible about the universities they choose. There are also far more law jobs than there are banking jobs.

This is reassuring, you're right on the lucky and probabilities I think.

I was much more suited to law to begin with, but getting a back office job in finance gave me exposure to front office jobs and that seemed really appealing for a while. But the competition is fierce as there's no real professional barrier (unlike SQE, ACA etc) so recruitment tends to focus on a narrow pipeline/ prestige lens.

I do value investing and investment analysis now without the pressure of managing other people's money, so I've closed the door on front office finance and ready for a career where people skills matter a lot more than number crunching.

Well done on level 2 (I'm sitting it in May) and good luck for Level 3. If you're done SQE etc how did you find CFA compares in terms of difficulty/ preparation?

 

[Shiv Lawy]

Update:

Skadden and Weil PFO

I'm not too broken up as these were last minute and some of the first applications I did. They weren't really on my radar either just numbers game padding which helped me narrow down my list.

My hopeful firms right now are Sidley (also an early application but I had a lot to say about why Sidley), Paul Weiss, and Akin so fingers crossed for those.

Still waiting on Freshfields post stage 2.

 

[Shiv Lawy]

Thought I would post my tracker, these are VS I have currently applied to. Rejected by 2 and have about 6 more to apply DTC once they open and then I'm calling it a day and focusing on fundraising for my startup again.

	Apply By	Applied?	Stage 1 Test?	Stage 2 Test?
Cooley	01-Jan​	Y
Akin	04-Jan​	Y
White & Case	12-Jan​	Y
Vinson & Elkins	12-Jan​	Y
Perkins Coie	02-Jan​	Y
Simmons and Simmons	15-Feb​	Y	Y
Davis Polk	30-Sep​	Y
Freshfields	05-Dec​	Y	Y	Y
Skadden	12-Dec​	Y	PFO
Sidley Austin	14-Dec​	Y
Kirkland & Ellis	14-Dec​	Y
Weil	14-Dec​	Y	PFO
Paul Weiss	31-Dec​	Y
Dechert	31-Dec​	Y
Travers Smith	14-Dec​	Y
Debevoise & Plimpton	31-Dec​	Y

 

[Shiv Lawy]

Submitted Katten, Squire Patton Boggs and Morrison Foerster this week. MoFo was a Mofo I must say- you had to upload transcripts from the get go, and I have lost my A-level transcripts. Also curious that uploading an Advanced Degree transcript was required- what do people without a Master's or not get with a final transcript do? just not apply?

 

[Harvey Specter]

Submitted Katten, Squire Patton Boggs and Morrison Foerster this week. MoFo was a Mofo I must say- you had to upload transcripts from the get go, and I have lost my A-level transcripts. Also curious that uploading an Advanced Degree transcript was required- what do people without a Master's or not get with a final transcript do? just not apply?

I was gna apply to MoFo but saw that they asked for us to upload transcripts from A-level through to a masters degree and decided nah I cba.

My uni doesn’t even allow undergrad transcripts to be uploaded cos they’re on a secure portal, so it would have been a waste of time applying.

It’s a very odd app portal, lowkey worse than the one Cleary uses. How did you get around sending the app without uploading certificates?

In any case, I wish you the best of luck with your apps to Katten, SPB and MoFo! You have a great range of firms that you’re applying to imo!​

 

[Shiv Lawy]

I was gna apply to MoFo but saw that they asked for us to upload transcripts from A-level through to a masters degree and decided nah I cba.

My uni doesn’t even allow undergrad transcripts to be uploaded cos they’re on a secure portal, so it would have been a waste of time applying.

It’s a very odd app portal, lowkey worse than the one Cleary uses. How did you get around sending the app without uploading certificates?

In any case, I wish you the best of luck with your apps to Katten, SPB and MoFo! You have a great range of firms that you’re applying to imo!​

It's a very strange portal but maybe causes enough friction that competition is slightly lower!

I uploaded a word document with my A-level grades apologising about not having them on hand and endevouring to contact my school once it reopens in the new year 😂 I'll use this as cope if I get rejected

Thank you! Getting into the swing of high volume applications now.