Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[1PF_wou]

@Jessica Booker Hi Jessica- had to make an account to ask this question(thanks for all your hard work on this forum!)

I had an interview with a firm 3 days ago and I told them I have a TC deadline (elsewhere) to accept on the 30th August.This was after an extension was given to me. The partners said that because of this, they'll let me know soon about the decision. I have now realised that a bank holiday falls on that date, which makes this decision making/wait game even harder.

Shall I contact the firm I interviewed this week again to fasten the process? Or am I jumping ahead too eaarly.

Thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker Hi Jessica- had to make an account to ask this question(thanks for all your hard work on this forum!)

I had an interview with a firm 3 days ago and I told them I have a TC deadline (elsewhere) to accept on the 30th August.This was after an extension was given to me. The partners said that because of this, they'll let me know soon about the decision. I have now realised that a bank holiday falls on that date, which makes this decision making/wait game even harder.

Shall I contact the firm I interviewed this week again to fasten the process? Or am I jumping ahead too eaarly.

Thanks

I would give them a call tomorrow morning to see if they can give you an outcome. However, be prepared that you may not get an answer as to whether you have been successful or not.

You may need to consider accepting and then reneging your offer if you do get a second offer (assuming the second firm is your preference).

 

[porquenolosdos]

Hi Jessica! Does 2:1 mean a grade from 60-69%?
I'm from Australia so I got that off google as we don't code our grades like that.
Also, if it is, are you telling me that heaps of global firms do recruit candidates with an average grade in that range? We have quite a few of the same global firms here in Australia so I was wondering what my chances were.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica! Does 2:1 mean a grade from 60-69%?
I'm from Australia so I got that off google as we don't code our grades like that.
Also, if it is, are you telling me that heaps of global firms do recruit candidates with an average grade in that range? We have quite a few of the same global firms here in Australia so I was wondering what my chances were.

Thanks in advance!

A 2.1 is a 60-69% score but that only applies to universities that use that particular assessment/scoring method. A percentage system isn't always directly transferable, so a 65% score in another country doesn't always equate to a 2.1.

As I understand it the Australian system works as follows:

Australian definition	Australian alternative name	UK equiavlant
First Class	N/A	1st
Second Class (Upper Division)	Division A or Division 1	2:1
Second Class (Lower Division)	Division B or Division 2	2:2

Most UK firms require you to have a 2.1 in your degree (on an equivalent). There are only a handful of firms that do not.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Hey @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well. Could you please confirm if https://careers.cliffordchance.com/...ance-live-events/full-calendar-of-events.html has all the details to all the events that CC is holding for this cycle?

Also, are there events from this list that you would surely recommend?

Also, how many of these events do successful applicants attend? I know there isn't really a number to this but what are the ones that we should totally attend and which ones can we skip?

I am only going to apply to 3 firms but even attending events of these 3 + managing university + writing applications looks hectic. How do people manage applying to 30 firms in one cycle with a part time job? Is there something that I'm doing wrong?

Thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well. Could you please confirm if https://careers.cliffordchance.com/...ance-live-events/full-calendar-of-events.html has all the details to all the events that CC is holding for this cycle?

Also, are there events from this list that you would surely recommend?

Also, how many of these events do successful applicants attend? I know there isn't really a number to this but what are the ones that we should totally attend and which ones can we skip?

I am only going to apply to 3 firms but even attending events of these 3 + managing university + writing applications looks hectic. How do people manage applying to 30 firms in one cycle with a part time job? Is there something that I'm doing wrong?

Thanks

Unfortunately I don’t know the answer to whether this is CC’s full event list.

Successful applicants can attend no events. There will be no correlation between attending events and securing a TC.

I’d go to the event(s) you are genuinely interested in and that you feel you will get something out of.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Thank you for your help.

 

[porquenolosdos]

A 2.1 is a 60-69% score but that only applies to universities that use that particular assessment/scoring method. A percentage system isn't always directly transferable, so a 65% score in another country doesn't always equate to a 2.1.

As I understand it the Australian system works as follows:

Australian definition	Australian alternative name	UK equiavlant
First Class	N/A	1st
Second Class (Upper Division)	Division A or Division 1	2:1
Second Class (Lower Division)	Division B or Division 2	2:2

Most UK firms require you to have a 2.1 in your degree (on an equivalent). There are only a handful of firms that do not.

Ahhh thank you. This is confusing as only 'honours' is marked as 'first class' etc here. Otherwise, we are marked as 'Credit, Distinction, High Distinction' or variations of that such as H2A, H1 etc. I've also never heard of these Divisions too.

 

[1PF_wou]

I would give them a call tomorrow morning to see if they can give you an outcome. However, be prepared that you may not get an answer as to whether you have been successful or not.

You may need to consider accepting and then reneging your offer if you do get a second offer (assuming the second firm is your preference).

Hi, thanks for answering. The second firm is indeed my preference. I believe they discuss candidates on every assessment week Friday in some form of wash-up, based on what the partners said.

Quick followup q: would this lower my chances?I wouldn't want a firm to be in a position where they are assessing candidates, and reject me on the basis that they might assume I have already accepted elsewhere on Monday(especially as its bank holiday then)

 

[Jessica Booker]

Ahhh thank you. This is confusing as only 'honours' is marked as 'first class' etc here. Otherwise, we are marked as 'Credit, Distinction, High Distinction' or variations of that such as H2A, H1 etc. I've also never heard of these Divisions too.

It will often vary by state. You would probably need one of the following:

Degree with a 2:1, or an average grade of distinction, division A, division 1, B+, 75 per cent, or 5.5/7.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi, thanks for answering. The second firm is indeed my preference. I believe they discuss candidates on every assessment week Friday in some form of wash-up, based on what the partners said.

Quick followup q: would this lower my chances?I wouldn't want a firm to be in a position where they are assessing candidates, and reject me on the basis that they might assume I have already accepted elsewhere on Monday(especially as its bank holiday then)

How would they know you have accepted? All you are asking is for a decision on their interview process.

But no, that wouldn't lower your chances anyway.

 

[porquenolosdos]

Hi Jess, me again
What is this interview question asking: “Tell us about your commitment to developing your skills in this field”?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess, me again
What is this interview question asking: “Tell us about your commitment to developing your skills in this field”?

Its asking whether you can 1) identify the skills relevant for the job/career and 2) whether you have evidence of building/developing those skills through the things you have chosen to do

 

[porquenolosdos]

Its asking whether you can 1) identify the skills relevant for the job/career and 2) whether you have evidence of building/developing those skills through the things you have chosen to do

thank you very much!

 

[porquenolosdos]

Hi Jess! Can you please clarify this quesiton:
'Share your experience working with the client and any key learning the team should applying projects going forward?'
Is it asking me to identify what skills I utilised for this project that the next team replicating this would need to know?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess! Can you please clarify this quesiton:
'Share your experience working with the client and any key learning the team should applying projects going forward?'
Is it asking me to identify what skills I utilised for this project that the next team replicating this would need to know?

It’s a pretty badly worded question if that is what it is, but it is trying to get you to:

1) present evidence of you working in a client facing role

2) show you understand what was important when dealing with clients

3) what learnings there were from your perspective, that either led to success for the team/client that time, or even if it wasn’t entirely successful, what you would try and do differently next time around. So in short what should be replicated, what should be replaced.

 

[CaveCanis]

Hi Jess,

I appear to have written you an essay but my question is really two fold:

1) How can I present my diverse range of non-law related work experience positively in vac scheme/TC applications?

2) It is better to disclose or not disclose a disability in a vac scheme/TC application?


For context/further detail:

I’m a non-law graduate (2:1 History BA from RG uni with AAA at A Level) and current GDL student. I’ve taken a little while to work out what it is I want to do, and tried out a few different things here and there, as well as having a couple of hiccups a long the way, and my CV is reflective of that.

Throughout all of university I worked in various areas of the service industry, completed internships in various industries (media, engineering, research, but not law) and was very involved in lots of extra-curricular activities (sport, politics, JCR).

Since graduating I’ve worked for a fin-tech as an analyst and continued to work whilst doing my GDL. (I think my overall grade will be a commendation with some high distinction marks on my transcript).

I didn’t apply for vac schemes/training contracts this year around because I wanted to make sure that law was the right path for me first. Despite having been interested in law for a long time, I initially disregarded law as a potential career because, as a result of being neurodiverse(/being recognised as disabled under the 2010 Equality Act), I was advised against pursuing law, having been told that I would struggle to keep up with the reading whilst studying it and might not manage in the high-pressure environment in corporate law. Yet, having now worked full-time in a high-pressure corporate environment for two years, whilst also studying the GDL, I know I’m more than capable, that I love the process of applying the law, and that it’s definitely what I want to do if I can (although I’m aware it’s competitive).

I’ve now been offered an opportunity to do an MSc at a top university in a STEM subject relevant to policy making- I still want to be a solicitor, but this masters is putting something to bed that I’ve been incredibly interested in for a long time (especially given all the new data coming out of the pandemic), and if I can’t get into law I would like to work in policy.

I’m intending on applying for vac schemes and TC’s this time around with the hope that I can start a TC the September after I graduate from the masters.

I’m not sure how to present any of this in a vacc scheme/training contract application - I’m concerned that it will come across as if I jump around a lot and it won’t be clear why I’m pursuing a career in law. How would you approach this? Have I shot myself in the foot with the masters?

Moreover, whilst I’m aware a lot of firms are working on being more inclusive, I’m not sure how much of this is marketing and I do not wish to undermine my application - would you recommend disclosing my neurodiversity (/disability) or not?

 

[IRO]

Hi Jess,

I appear to have written you an essay but my question is really two fold:

1) How can I present my diverse range of non-law related work experience positively in vac scheme/TC applications?

2) It is better to disclose or not disclose a disability in a vac scheme/TC application?


For context/further detail:

I’m a non-law graduate (2:1 History BA from RG uni with AAA at A Level) and current GDL student. I’ve taken a little while to work out what it is I want to do, and tried out a few different things here and there, as well as having a couple of hiccups a long the way, and my CV is reflective of that.

Throughout all of university I worked in various areas of the service industry, completed internships in various industries (media, engineering, research, but not law) and was very involved in lots of extra-curricular activities (sport, politics, JCR).

Since graduating I’ve worked for a fin-tech as an analyst and continued to work whilst doing my GDL. (I think my overall grade will be a commendation with some high distinction marks on my transcript).

I didn’t apply for vac schemes/training contracts this year around because I wanted to make sure that law was the right path for me first. Despite having been interested in law for a long time, I initially disregarded law as a potential career because, as a result of being neurodiverse(/being recognised as disabled under the 2010 Equality Act), I was advised against pursuing law, having been told that I would struggle to keep up with the reading whilst studying it and might not manage in the high-pressure environment in corporate law. Yet, having now worked full-time in a high-pressure corporate environment for two years, whilst also studying the GDL, I know I’m more than capable, that I love the process of applying the law, and that it’s definitely what I want to do if I can (although I’m aware it’s competitive).

I’ve now been offered an opportunity to do an MSc at a top university in a STEM subject relevant to policy making- I still want to be a solicitor, but this masters is putting something to bed that I’ve been incredibly interested in for a long time (especially given all the new data coming out of the pandemic), and if I can’t get into law I would like to work in policy.

I’m intending on applying for vac schemes and TC’s this time around with the hope that I can start a TC the September after I graduate from the masters.

I’m not sure how to present any of this in a vacc scheme/training contract application - I’m concerned that it will come across as if I jump around a lot and it won’t be clear why I’m pursuing a career in law. How would you approach this? Have I shot myself in the foot with the masters?

Moreover, whilst I’m aware a lot of firms are working on being more inclusive, I’m not sure how much of this is marketing and I do not wish to undermine my application - would you recommend disclosing my neurodiversity (/disability) or not?

I'm obviously not Jessica but I might be able to offer some advice, particularly on the issue of pursuing a career in law with a disability. I am also neurodiverse (dyslexia/dyspraxia) and have a chronic illness which also qualifies as a disability. My advice is to always disclose your conditions and get the necessary adjustments to the assessment process.

Ultimately you need to find a firm which will support you and your needs, not only during the application process but throughout your career with them. The perspective I took is that my disabilities are not going away, and I need to prioritise a firm which will support me when I work with them or I won't be able to have a successful career. Any firm that is going to do that is also going to support you through the application process, and you will not disadvantage yourself by disclosing. The only circumstance where disclosing might be detrimental would be if you're applying to a firm which can't/won't support you, and frankly you deserve a lot better than to work for such a firm.

One thing that benefitted me last application cycle was to attend as many events about pursuing a career in law with a disability as possible. This will not only give you the confidence to apply and disclose knowing it won't disadvantage you, but you will also meet a lot of people who are successful solicitors and are also neurodiverse/disabled. I really benefitted from seeing that sort of representation in the legal profession, and you might as well. It can also be really useful in terms of identifying disability confident firms which you may want to apply to. I got my TC with my dream firm, and one of the many reasons they were perfect for me is because they are amazing at supporting neurodiverse employees. I met them at one of these events so would highly recommend it.

Good events include:

• Access to Law - sponsoring firms have included Macfarlanes, RPC, Weil and White & Case.
• Explore the Law - sponsoring firms have included Baker McKenzie, DLA Piper, Hogan Lovells, Latham and Watkins, Linklaters, and Norton Rose Fulbright
• AS Ability - details of the 2022 event have not been released yet, it is usually sponsored by Reed Smith with panellists from a number of different firms

In terms of the MSc, go for it. It will not disadvantage you when applying to VSs/TCs. I myself am about to complete my doctorate in an area completely unrelated to law and if anything it made me a more interesting applicant. I had lots of partners ask me about my research interests, why I decided to do a doctorate, and why I was now going into law. It was a point of interest/a fun conversation topic. So long as you have a compelling answer to why you want to pursue a career in law you'll be fine. No one questioned my commitment to a career in law because of my doctorate so I can't see why they would because you decided to do an MSc! If you're really concerned maybe you can prioritize firms which encourage/are interested in career changers. I've met a lot of future trainees who have jumped around a bit/done further study/worked before pursing the TC so you won't be alone.

My advice for you right now would be to ensure you get a commendation at the GDL, as that will be attractive to firms and demonstrate your commitment to a career in law. Otherwise you should be going into this application cycle with confidence that you can land the TC. It sounds like you have a lot of experience and a lot to offer firms. That will be really attractive, and the right firm will see that.

 

[TC fiend]

My advice for you right now would be to ensure you get a commendation at the GDL, as for some firms that is a minimum requirement and they won't offer you a TC if you don't get it

Is this true though? I haven’t seen that anywhere. I thought the consensus was that the GDL is more a box-ticking exercise than anything else, provided you’ve done well at undergraduate level.

 

[IRO]

Is this true though? I haven’t seen that anywhere. I thought the consensus was that the GDL is more a box-ticking exercise than anything else, provided you’ve done well at undergraduate level.

My firm will rescind my TC offer if I don’t get a commendation, and list it as a requirement on their website if you’ve done the GDL before applying. It varies from firm to firm of course, but I personally wouldn’t risk narrowing my choices by not scoring highly in the GDL.