TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2023-4

[hannah04]

does anyone have Fieldfisher grad rec's contact number?

 

[Samridhi Jain]

Thanks for answering my question. I would say that it is a bit more challenging to apply for training contracts from outside the country, especially now in this political climate so I would start by saying to expect a lot of setbacks because of it. I personally feel like you have much more chances of getting positive results if you apply within the country and with a degree from a reputable UK university.
In fact, notwithstanding the fact that I went to a very good private university in Milan, Italy (with a fully funded scholarship), I would have not had any luck applying directly from Italy without a UK degree. Of course, never say never (and I did meet one person from LinkedIn who applied directly from Freshfield and got the training contract) but this is very rare so I would bear this in mind. Going to LSE was a game-changer for me and I am sure it helped my applications and my chances of getting interviews.

However, this should not discourage you in the slightest, only open your eyes to your real possibilities. I would encourage you to keep applying until your graduation, and also motivate you to apply to LLM or MSc courses in UK universities to have the best chances of success if you are not successful earlier!

In terms of my experience with US law firms, I personally feel like I had a very positive experience with them. It really felt like they were willing to give me a shot, realising that my academic and professional skillset, although abroad, had so many valuable things that would have distinguished me from my peers and ultimately make me a better lawyer. Additionally, being black I really felt like they were very diverse environments (especially some firms more than others of course) appreciative of my diverse International and racial background.
So, I always encourage people from my same background to apply to US firms as I feel like they really value diversity, and this is also shown by how some of them are very diverse (even at partner levels) in the US and are sort of in need of mirroring that trend in the UK too.

In terms of tips to apply to US firms, what I would say is:

• Being yourself through the process, although it is cliché, it is one of the things I will always preach. Re-reading my application to Goodwin recently felt so strange cause I was so taken by a law firm giving me a chance regardless of me being 100% in the application. I thought that this was not possible to do in these applications and I tried to change who I was when I started applying to magic circle firms, however I could see how that was not working for me. Being myself and telling my story was something that worked extremely with US firms since they were genuinely interested in me and my personality. Especially firms like Goodwin who only uses your application to decide whether to invite people to interview, they want to understand who you are as a person from your words and your stories, and being yourself through the process is the only thing that will allow you to do that!
• Do your research. Show that you know the firm inside and out and demonstrate your commitment to train with that firm with showing how well you know it and the differences between the firm and its competitors. Goodwin specifically has a question about what firms you apply to and it is an opportunity for you to also see if you know the competitors of the firm and if you are applying to them.

I think that one of the reasons why it will be very difficult to get through the process is the fact that you are not studying in the UK, so I really want to stress this. So, do not think you are not good enough because you definitely are, but most probably factors out of your control are interfering. You also need to remember that the market is becoming saturated in my opinion so there are a lot of people applying now for a variety of different reasons and so this will increase competition a lot.

I hope I helped you in some way and good luck with your applications!

Thank you so much for these insights - super helpful.

That is helpful to know. If you don't mind, this could probably be a separate conversation, but how can I choose which UK universities to apply to?

By the time I graduate, I'll be qualified in India but there's also a way for me to clear SQE directly - would that then make sense to apply to firms after that or should I focus on getting a UK degree and then applying?

I would say I could treat this cycle and the next as learning curves and after doing an LLM I could then apply with a strong UK uni degree background but applying in my penultimate year (now)- I'm guessing I wouldn't be at a loss? Since I have time anyway so might as well hone my ability to apply/ write apps and what if I get in? I've factored in that I could get multiple setbacks so that's okay.

On another note, do you think applying to Dubai/ Hong Kong schemes would have a higher success rate for international students or is that no different?

 

[Harold Gunderson]

Does anyone know when we can expect to hear back from CMS?

 

[Lian Lian]

CMS WG invite! Applied on the deadline day.

This is my first good news in a long time 😭😭😭

 

[Deleted member 24543]

Those who have already done the CC VI, anyone has any advice just on the format? Is it 1 min of prep time and then it immediately records, and we get 2 minutes to record?

 

[lawtrainee]

Should we consider it a PFO from Slaughter and May, if they haven't reached out to us yet?

 

[Zaidoz10]

CMS Middle East rejection post WG

 

[axelbeugre]

Hello TCLA community! Please help me in answering this part of an optional question. Although the whole question is optional. Still, I wanted to answer it. If I don't answer the complete question or any part thereof, would it affect my application?

"Please also include any information about which other firms are you applying to."

The complete question is this -

"Please briefly summarise anything else that you would like to add which you think is relevant to your application. This can be positions of responsibility, extra-curricular activities and achievements or academic awards or scholarships. Please also include any information about which other firms are you applying to."

I wanted to answer the first part of the question but don't know what to do with the 2nd part.

I am pretty sure this is Goodwin application. Since it is optional you can decide to not respond, but they might ask you the same question in the interview and I am afraid that you will be required to answer (I was asked the question in my interview at Goodwin) so my suggestion is to find an answer to the question. It can be very simple. I did not mention all the firms I applied to (since I applied to more than 20+ by that point) so I decided to mention firms that had something in common or I attended an event at.

 

[IwantaVacSchemePlz]

CMS Middle East rejection post WG

sorry to hear when did you do the WG if you don't mind me asking?

 

[powerpuffgirl]

For those who also still haven't heard back from A&O do you think its probably a PFO or is there still a chance for an AC? Not sure whether to stop getting my hopes up, thanks

 

[axelbeugre]

Thank you so much for these insights - super helpful.

That is helpful to know. If you don't mind, this could probably be a separate conversation, but how can I choose which UK universities to apply to?

By the time I graduate, I'll be qualified in India but there's also a way for me to clear SQE directly - would that then make sense to apply to firms after that or should I focus on getting a UK degree and then applying?

I would say I could treat this cycle and the next as learning curves and after doing an LLM I could then apply with a strong UK uni degree background but applying in my penultimate year (now)- I'm guessing I wouldn't be at a loss? Since I have time anyway so might as well hone my ability to apply/ write apps and what if I get in? I've factored in that I could get multiple setbacks so that's okay.

On another note, do you think applying to Dubai/ Hong Kong schemes would have a higher success rate for international students or is that no different?

Choosing which university to go to is a very personal thing and so many different factors have to be considered. I would say that it depends on what you want to study and the best universities to do that. I would look at rankings for the course you are applying to and see which one you like best. The rankings also reflect the universities that are well known in the legal industry (as elitist as this argument sounds, this is how it works so I personally tried to use this to my advantage)!

You could eventually move here as a qualified lawyer and take the SQE. I personally do not know what to suggest there because that was not my experience but I am guessing that some law firms would sponsor you to move to the UK as a dual qualified lawyer so I would think about what would be the best financial decision if I were you.

As I said, I think that you should apply anyway as it gives you an opportunity to practice your written skills and you never know what can happen (you might be successful in securing something!).

I genuinely do not know how the Dubai/Hong Kong schemes work but I do know that you need to speak Arabic and Chinese for those respectively (as they tend to like students with these skills) so if this is your case, I would apply. However, I think that the same logic might apply to these locations too but do not quote me on that.

Good luck with everything!

 

[IwantaVacSchemePlz]

For those who also still haven't heard back from A&O do you think its probably a PFO or is there still a chance for an AC? Not sure whether to stop getting my hopes up, thanks

I wouldn't stress about it honestly, people for the vac schemes received AC invites several weeks following the initially stated date on the application form. Besides, only two of us have heard anything positive from what I have seen, so it's not a PFO until they've formally sent it

 

[BM99]

For those who also still haven't heard back from A&O do you think its probably a PFO or is there still a chance for an AC? Not sure whether to stop getting my hopes up, thanks

I have sent an email to ask for updates (Because I need to make necessary work arrangements if progressing), will update this thread if they reply.

 

[Zaidoz10]

sorry to hear when did you do the WG if you don't mind me asking?

28th October

 

[Zaidoz10]

Has anyone heard back from Simmons Middle East post their blended assessment?

 

[Lola333]

As a final year law student who just sat a WVS at A&O (ended on the 8th), this sort of attitude is exactly why a lot of you "don't hear back" or get PFOs!

A lot of us who go to "lesser unis" work twice as hard just to be in these rooms and just because we go to "lesser unis" does not mean that they are not as smart.
A lot of people who got "lesser grades" may have caring responsibilities, mental illnesses, neurodivergencies or may have just had a really bad day. They should not be penalised for circumstances outside of their control.
And lastly, experiences are very hard to come by what with their only being about 5000 training contracts on offer each year but tens of thousands of law graduates and hundreds of thousands of non-law graduates, career changers and international students fighting for those spots. Then add in how people may struggle due to being LGBTQIA+, neurodivergent or BAME and suffer from imposter syndrome.

My whole cohort for the WVS (35 people) have been offered TCs for 2026/2027 and the key thing GR looked for was "personable" traits at A&O, that's why their motto is "Belong. Excel" and Clifford Chance operates similarly as I know many people who had these "lesser" qualities who did their spark schemes and now have TCs with them.

The key to getting a TC is understanding that you are no better than anyone. You are supposed to address the doormen and cleaners with the same amount of respect, courtesy and kindness as you would the senior partners and associates. On my WVS, we were assessed at the end on feedback from everyone at the firm because they want people that they would actually enjoy having to spend 14 hours with a day, not a Russell Group grad who's so holier than thou they can't fathom that someone outside of their elite bubble could be judged as a potential candidate, let alone accepted into the magic circle.

Out of interest, how do you know all 35 participants got offers? Was is discussed among you or did GR announce?

 

[hannah04]

If a firm's work experience section asks you to provide details of how the each work experience is "relevant" to the firm, what does this mean? Does this mean citing skills you developed through the work experience that you could apply as a trainee? What aspects of the firm are we supposed to relate the experience to?

 

[Jessica Booker]

If a firm's work experience section asks you to provide details of how the each work experience is "relevant" to the firm, what does this mean? Does this mean citing skills you developed through the work experience that you could apply as a trainee? I'm a bit confused about this.

It can be any connection to the work you would do at the firm you are applying to. This could be the skills you have developed that will be needed as a lawyer, through to knowledge of the law, clients or commercial aspects you would be working with. They are basically asking you to focus on the relevancy of the work you have done rather than describing it broadly.

 

[hannah04]

It can be any connection to the work you would do at the firm you are applying to. This could be the skills you have developed that will be needed as a lawyer, through to knowledge of the law, clients or commercial aspects you would be working with. They are basically asking you to focus on the relevancy of the work you have done rather than describing it broadly.

Thanks for the advice Jess! For describing the skills I have developed that will be needed as a lawyer, do you have advice on how to make it specific to being a lawyer at that firm rather than just a lawyer in general?

 

[axelbeugre]

If a firm's work experience section asks you to provide details of how the each work experience is "relevant" to the firm, what does this mean? Does this mean citing skills you developed through the work experience that you could apply as a trainee? What aspects of the firm are we supposed to relate the experience to?

I think they are trying to see what relevant skills you have developed from these professional experiences which will be relevant to your time as a trainee solicitor at the firm. I would also emphasise your experiences in a legal or corporate environment, highlighting how these have helped you knowing more about these sectors and this will help you to become a better trainee solicitor who has an in-depth knowledge of the sector. This will work perfectly especially if you have interned in companies that were or are clients of the firm like banks or finance companies.

The way I would go about it is: '' I interned at X company operating in the fintech space where I was responsible of producing weekly reports around the trend in investors' contribution to the company and the factors the latter considered when investing in the company. This helped me develop written communication skills and attention to detail as I had to make sure the reports did not have any content or grammatical error. These skills will be fundamental as a trainee at firm X as I will be able to implement them whilst working on different complex matters, making sure my communication is clear and effective, and there is no mistakes in the documents I send off to a senior lawyer at the firm''
This is an example I just typed but I hope it helps you understand how I would personally approach the description of one particular task of an internship.

Good luck with the application!