TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[CC03]

Hi @Jessica Booker I got couple law firms on my list which I applied to last cycle. Do you think I can re-apply again? As I’ve heard from someone firms have AI technology which detects a candidates details and automatically rejects them. Is this true?

As my friend said he applied twice to a firm the following cycle and was outright rejected (a MC firm). For reference he made it to the AC in the first attempt and second attempt rejected at app stage

 

[John Travoni]

Hi @Jessica Booker I got couple law firms on my list which I applied to last cycle. Do you think I can re-apply again? As I’ve heard from someone firms have AI technology which detects a candidates details and automatically rejects them. Is this true?

As my friend said he applied twice to a firm the following cycle and was outright rejected (a MC firm). For reference he made it to the AC in the first attempt and second attempt rejected at app stage

The part where the firm automatically rejects you through AI is not true.

You are only prevented from applying to a firm if you make it to their AC and are unsuccessful, but this condition has to be part of the firm’s recruitment process. Most firms do not follow this but there are many firms that do follow this approach e.g. Linklaters.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker I got couple law firms on my list which I applied to last cycle. Do you think I can re-apply again? As I’ve heard from someone firms have AI technology which detects a candidates details and automatically rejects them. Is this true?

As my friend said he applied twice to a firm the following cycle and was outright rejected (a MC firm). For reference he made it to the AC in the first attempt and second attempt rejected at app stage

You don’t need AI for it in all honesty. It would be pretty clear from the applicant tracking system if you were reapplying. But there isn’t a system that automatically rejects you. At best it would stop you applying for the same vacancy in the same recruitment cycle more than once. It doesn’t apply to different vacancies though.

However, most firms will remove their data regularly due to GDPR (typically anywhere between 3 to 12 months from a vacancy closing or a the recruitment for a role concluding). There is no guarantee the data still sits on the system - you can typically find out how long they retain your data for by looking at their data policy.

The circumstances of your friend are not surprising. It might be that the firm had a policy you had to wait a certain period of time before reapplying (sometimes state you have to wait 12 months before reapplying) or it could be that there was not a lot of recent evidence of development in their application. I don’t think it was down to an automated process though.

 

[GXA123]

Is Dentons WG part of the first stage?

 

[ellwilsen]

Sorry to ask such a student room question lol but if I applied for a firm’s open day and they offered me a virtual one instead, does this mean anything or do firms tend not to reject people for open days?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Sorry to ask such a student room question lol but if I applied for a firm’s open day and they offered me a virtual one instead, does this mean anything or do firms tend not to reject people for open days?

I suspect with the recent news of the new variant, some firms are moving back to virtual open days rather than running them in person to minimise risks.

I don't think it has anything to do with you as an applicant nor that they don't reject people. They are bound to have rejected far more people than they have accepted, even with a virtual open day.

 

[jv1999]

Hi guys just wondering how people are able to do multiple vacation schemes (e.g. 5) and receive offers from all of them? From what I have heard, you usually have to accept a TC offer within a month or two of receiving an offer after a VS (maybe this is a generalisation).

Are people accepting a TC offer then reneging on it when they get an offer from the firm they do their next scheme with and repeating this process with multiple firms? Or are they confidently rejecting the offer in the hope that they'll get an offer following the next scheme they do? Or are people able to persuade firms to extend the deadline by which time they have to accept or reject the TC offer?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi guys just wondering how people are able to do multiple vacation schemes (e.g. 5) and receive offers from all of them? From what I have heard, you usually have to accept a TC offer within a month or two of receiving an offer after a VS (maybe this is a generalisation).

Are people accepting a TC offer then reneging on it when they get an offer from the firm they do their next scheme with and repeating this process with multiple firms? Or are they confidently rejecting the offer in the hope that they'll get an offer following the next scheme they do? Or are people able to persuade firms to extend the deadline by which time they have to accept or reject the TC offer?

There is a very loose "voluntary code of recruitment practice" that says that a firm shouldn't make you accept an offer before the 15th September as you go into the final year of your undergraduate degree. If you are past this point, then you would have 4 weeks to accept the offer. However, the code is completely voluntary and some firms to not stick to it. Some firms will demand you decide on your offer within a week.

Ultimately if you aren't given time to consider your offers, then accepting and reneging is the most appropriate thing to do. I would never advise declining an offer unless you have a written offer from another firm.

The best thing to do is to ask for an extension of the deadline as you have suggested by explaining you do have other vacation schemes you want to complete first. A firm can obviously say no to this though. They do have to manage their intakes and ensure they don't under recruit. Therefore they may need to know sooner rather than later as to whether you will accept or not (so they can make subsequent offers). This is particularly the case if they need you to complete the GDL/LPC/SQE and they need to sign you up to those courses.

 

[S87]

Hi guys,

May I ask how long after completing the Reed Smith 'test did you receive the VI invite?

 

[jv1999]

There is a very loose "voluntary code of recruitment practice" that says that a firm shouldn't make you accept an offer before the 15th September as you go into the final year of your undergraduate degree. If you are past this point, then you would have 4 weeks to accept the offer. However, the code is completely voluntary and some firms to not stick to it. Some firms will demand you decide on your offer within a week.

Ultimately if you aren't given time to consider your offers, then accepting and reneging is the most appropriate thing to do. I would never advise declining an offer unless you have a written offer from another firm.

The best thing to do is to ask for an extension of the deadline as you have suggested by explaining you do have other vacation schemes you want to complete first. A firm can obviously say no to this though. They do have to manage their intakes and ensure they don't under recruit. Therefore they may need to know sooner rather than later as to whether you will accept or not (so they can make subsequent offers). This is particularly the case if they need you to complete the GDL/LPC/SQE and they need to sign you up to those courses.

Thanks so much for this!

I assume that, if the firm does not allow deadline extensions or rarely allows them, and you then accept/renege, you are likely to be burning bridges with that firm?

 

[Vesania]

Hi guys,

May I ask how long after completing the Reed Smith 'test did you receive the VI invite?

I received mine 4 days after getting my SJT Feedback report

 

[Samir_O]

Hi all! Dont mean to bring negativity to this forum but just seeking peoples thoughts... Im currently interning and am a 2021 graduate and have been applying for vac schemes but no luck so far.. quite a few of the firms i have my eye on still have their deadlines coming up end of december/beginning of jan. I seem to find myself only able to submit applications so close to the deadline. if the firms are rolling (like alot of the ones upcoming in dec/jan), how much of an issue does this pose? what is the general rule of thumb when it comes to submitting an app for a rolling firm? Just feel quite overwhelmed and feel like this app season is slipping away

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks so much for this!

I assume that, if the firm does not allow deadline extensions or rarely allows them, and you then accept/renege, you are likely to be burning bridges with that firm?

I need to be frank here. You are ultimately turning down the firm for another firm, so on some level bridges are slightly burnt but that would be the case if you declined an offer outright. But you are making a commitment to a firm for a number of years, and so I don't see this being a major issue. It is highly unlikely you will be looking for a new employer for another 3-5+ years.

And ultimately these minor burnt bridges are relatively short lived. You might struggle to move to that firm as a NQ and a small number of people will remember that you declined the offer. But in most cases, recruitment for NQ/PQE roles is done outside of graduate recruitment. And the chances of you being interviewed by the same partner for a TC as for a NQ/PQE role is minimal, and even then it relies on them remembering you and having a negative perception of you. Reality is someone declining your offer is unlikely to give you a negative perception of the candidate (unless they were rude/inconsiderate during the process). In some cases, if you impressed them highly in the recruitment process, they may be quite pleased you are coming back to them at a later state. I had an exceptional set of circumstances where this happened to someone who declined a TC I offered them to go to a US firm that then went bust. The candidate came back to ask us whether we would reconsider making the offer again given their circumstances and because they were impressive and dealt with the whole process professionally, we re-interviewed them which resulted in an offer.

If you do ever want to return to the firm and their name on your LinkedIn profile or CV, then undoubtedly the recruiter/partner would contact Grad Rec and ask why you didn't join the firm way back when. This is mainly to see whether you were offered rather than whether you declined though. It is highly likely that if you were interviewed, you would be asked about your decision making back then and see why you turned them down back then and what has changed to make you think they are the right firm now.

 

[kitty_kat]

This may be a really stupid question, but do referees usually let you know if they have been contacted by a firm? thanks!

 

[zidoeslaw]

I have seen someone who secured a summer vacation scheme with DLA, does that mean it is a PFO for everyone waiting. I didn't hear anything after the first stage

i think the timelines for ACs are different for London and regional offices. every person i saw that accpted a VS said it was of Manchester or Leeds

 

[jv1999]

I need to be frank here. You are ultimately turning down the firm for another firm, so on some level bridges are slightly burnt but that would be the case if you declined an offer outright. But you are making a commitment to a firm for a number of years, and so I don't see this being a major issue. It is highly unlikely you will be looking for a new employer for another 3-5+ years.

And ultimately these minor burnt bridges are relatively short lived. You might struggle to move to that firm as a NQ and a small number of people will remember that you declined the offer. But in most cases, recruitment for NQ/PQE roles is done outside of graduate recruitment. And the chances of you being interviewed by the same partner for a TC as for a NQ/PQE role is minimal, and even then it relies on them remembering you and having a negative perception of you. Reality is someone declining your offer is unlikely to give you a negative perception of the candidate (unless they were rude/inconsiderate during the process). In some cases, if you impressed them highly in the recruitment process, they may be quite pleased you are coming back to them at a later state. I had an exceptional set of circumstances where this happened to someone who declined a TC I offered them to go to a US firm that then went bust. The candidate came back to ask us whether we would reconsider making the offer again given their circumstances and because they were impressive and dealt with the whole process professionally, we re-interviewed them which resulted in an offer.

If you do ever want to return to the firm and their name on your LinkedIn profile or CV, then undoubtedly the recruiter/partner would contact Grad Rec and ask why you didn't join the firm way back when. This is mainly to see whether you were offered rather than whether you declined though. It is highly likely that if you were interviewed, you would be asked about your decision making back then and see why you turned them down back then and what has changed to make you think they are the right firm now.

makes complete sense thanks very much for this! I really appreciate the time taken to respond

 

[John Travoni]

i think the timelines for ACs are different for London and regional offices. every person i saw that accpted a VS said it was of Manchester or Leeds

No, this isn’t true. All those who have received offers from DLA already either did the first year scheme or were brand ambassadors. DLA is known to get back to these candidates first and have the AC with them before getting back to us after the deadline.

 

[CC03]

You don’t need AI for it in all honesty. It would be pretty clear from the applicant tracking system if you were reapplying. But there isn’t a system that automatically rejects you. At best it would stop you applying for the same vacancy in the same recruitment cycle more than once. It doesn’t apply to different vacancies though.

However, most firms will remove their data regularly due to GDPR (typically anywhere between 3 to 12 months from a vacancy closing or a the recruitment for a role concluding). There is no guarantee the data still sits on the system - you can typically find out how long they retain your data for by looking at their data policy.

The circumstances of your friend are not surprising. It might be that the firm had a policy you had to wait a certain period of time before reapplying (sometimes state you have to wait 12 months before reapplying) or it could be that there was not a lot of recent evidence of development in their application. I don’t think it was down to an automated process though.

Thank you Jessica, this is very reassuring.

 

[CC03]

The part where the firm automatically rejects you through AI is not true.

You are only prevented from applying to a firm if you make it to their AC and are unsuccessful, but this condition has to be part of the firm’s recruitment process. Most firms do not follow this but there are many firms that do follow this approach e.g. Linklaters.

Thank you for that! Yeah it was Linklaters haha

 

[CC03]

Hi all! Dont mean to bring negativity to this forum but just seeking peoples thoughts... Im currently interning and am a 2021 graduate and have been applying for vac schemes but no luck so far.. quite a few of the firms i have my eye on still have their deadlines coming up end of december/beginning of jan. I seem to find myself only able to submit applications so close to the deadline. if the firms are rolling (like alot of the ones upcoming in dec/jan), how much of an issue does this pose? what is the general rule of thumb when it comes to submitting an app for a rolling firm? Just feel quite overwhelmed and feel like this app season is slipping away

Hello! First of all, just know many people are in your situation. I can completely empathise with you, I had a slight meltdown yesterday about not submitting much applications. What do you feel is the reason for your applications getting rejected post-app? Are you selling yourself well.

Regarding firms rolling-basis, I would still apply and do not be put off with that. As you can only be in “this game” if you apply. To provide a bit of comfort all my applications which I applied to early on the cycle last year I was rejected from, and all four of my applications which I applied on the deadline I made it to the VI and AC stage.

All the best for this cycle! ✌🏻