TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[John Travoni]

Does anyone know how much weight WBD attach to the online game test? My report was not good

What were your strengths and weaknesses?

 

[James Carrabino]

View attachment 4013

Can somebody clarify what this means? Can I apply for White & Case's direct TC after being rejected for their VS a couple months ago? (i.e., applying for the TC in the same cycle after being rejected from the VS).

I would e-mail them to clarify, as the wording here is a bit unclear and last year they definitely allowed candidates to apply for a direct TC in the same recruitment cycle that they were unsuccessful for VS. They only did not allow candidates to reapply who had reached the interview stage.

 

[letmeintolaw]

I am making one of my final applications however on the date that the interviews would be held if my application were to get through, I will be doing a vacation scheme. Is there any way around this? Should I email the firm and explain before sending my application or will the dates be non-negotiable

 

[George Maxwell]

My biggest takeway

The main takeaways were that they explained the difference in the level of commercial awareness required for interviews at direct TC application than at VS interview.

Another takeaway that I was shocked about was the thing about work experience and that someone with no legal work experience got a TC through the direct TC route. Also, the session was really informal and interactive which I loved.

Thank you for sharing this @Asil Ahmad! I will be looking out for the recording when it is released 💪

Had a feedback call after an unsuccessful post-AC. However, I found the feedback to be super encouraging. The interviewers said I was more than capable of doing the role and that I showed a strong understanding of the firm and showed enthusiasm for embarking on a career in law. It was my first ever interview so I am really proud of myself, although it's not the outcome I wanted, the feedback has made me want to try even harder!

Hey @Nicole15,

What a fantastic attitude to have! It sounds like you smashed your first interview and it is credit to you that you are focusing on the positives in a situation like this. Awesome stuff 🚀

 

[Jessica Booker]

I am making one of my final applications however on the date that the interviews would be held if my application were to get through, I will be doing a vacation scheme. Is there any way around this? Should I email the firm and explain before sending my application or will the dates be non-negotiable

I’d wait until you know whether you are selected for interview or not, and then see if the firm has flexibility. Your vacation scheme firm may also be more flexible than you think and may be able to give you a couple of hours/half day off to attend an interview (this is actually quite common, and as long as you make the time up for the rest of the week, it typically is not an issue unless you have an assessment with the VS firm at the same time).

 

[S87]

Hi @Jessica Booker,
I am getting in touch with a number of firms to explain my mitigating circumstances and how they impacted on my grades. Because I want a direct answer how can I be bold without sounding rude?
thank you 🙏

 

[antisocial applicant]

when you do group exercises, what are the first words usually spoken? Do people assign roles to themselves like PM/note taker/time keeper or just get straight into discussing the task without worrying about formal titles?

 

[Jessica Booker]

when you do group exercises, what are the first words usually spoken? Do people assign roles to themselves like PM/note taker/time keeper or just get straight into discussing the task without worrying about formal titles?

Don’t try to over think/formulate it - flexing and adapting to the group/exercise rather than setting an expected agenda/discussion is important.

If roles are needed though it is important to define them early and make sure everyone is clear on who is doing what.

My advice is to try and forgot it is assessed and think more about how you would approach this task if it was real work.

 

[GXA123]

@Jessica Booker what is the difference between these 2 questions, because I feel like they are asking for the same thing...

1) Please tell us why you are interested in this position?
2) Why does a career in (law firm's name) interests you?

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker what is the difference between these 2 questions, because I feel like they are asking for the same thing...

1) Please tell us why you are interested in this position?
2) Why does a career in (law firm's name) interests you?

To me they are different.

The first one is why specifically the vacancy you are applying to. This doesn’t need to be anything about the firm as such, just the individual job opportunity. For instance, if this is a TC that could be the seat options, secondments, TC structure, training, personal development elements embedded into the TC.

The second is about the firm. That could the the work, culture, environment etc.

There could be a little bit of cross over with work into the two questions (eg type of clients you would work with/strength of practice areas or sectors) but I would make sure to not repeat detail across these questions and choose which one you want to focus on (if this is relevant to your motivation).

 

[Ole1999]

Anyone else still having issues with the Shoosmiths VI invite link? Can’t seem to login at all

 

[GXA123]

To me they are different.

The first one is why specifically the vacancy you are applying to. This doesn’t need to be anything about the firm as such, just the individual job opportunity. For instance, if this is a TC that could be the seat options, secondments, TC structure, training, personal development elements embedded into the TC.

The second is about the firm. That could the the work, culture, environment etc.

There could be a little bit of cross over with work into the two questions (eg type of clients you would work with/strength of practice areas or sectors) but I would make sure to not repeat detail across these questions and choose which one you want to focus on (if this is relevant to your motivation).

Thank you, but I personally think that this firm is asking for a lot with this and why law and why this jurisdiction and a cover letter on top of that!

 

[antisocial applicant]

Don’t try to over think/formulate it - flexing and adapting to the group/exercise rather than setting an expected agenda/discussion is important.

If roles are needed though it is important to define them early and make sure everyone is clear on who is doing what.

My advice is to try and forgot it is assessed and think more about how you would approach this task if it was real work.

Thank you!

 

[CorporateCrayfish]

White & Case are really going to give summer vacation scheme places the day before it starts.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you, but I personally think that this firm is asking for a lot with this and why law and why this jurisdiction and a cover letter on top of that!

Some firms like to be thorough. I know it can be a lot to ask for, but they will only be asking things they think are relevant and important for them to help them make the right selection.

 

[AvniD]

So I took part in an inter-university commercial awareness competition recently. We were in small teams, and my teammate and I had to present back to the panel on a case study. Our presentation had multiple sections which we split amongst ourselves. They start first, I go next- all good so far. When the last section comes about they go way over the time limit of 1 min (which they had told me to strictly stick to in the preparation breakout room) and I am left with less than 30 seconds for my last section. I can only outline what I was going to talk about in a sentence before being cut off. Then there are questions from the panel- and I don't get to say a single word. They take up all the questions, including the questions regarding my part of the presentation. I unmuted myself multiple times but they took up the question nonetheless and as soon as they were done the panel member asking would say thank you and move on.

I am not shy or introverted. I am a confident speaker who has presented in high profile conferences and forums. I am also the "mother" of the group in group projects, always making sure people contribute and that work is allocated fairly- I don't try to make myself stand out over the rest of my team.

This experience made me feel so defeated, patronised, and small. The only positive part of it is that the outcome (which we found out in a few days) is assessed on a team level, and I must have done something right because I've had legal recruiters of the sponsoring firms reach out via LinkedIn.

Beside the rant, I guess the question here is: have you ever had to deal with difficult and "macho" team members like that, and how did you cope?

My reply to your post is fairly long but I promise it has a point- please bear with me!

I relate with this to such a large extent- I've been in a similar position once before in my life and I learnt some really valuable lessons from it that I carry with myself to this date.

I was part of this competition once where we had to pitch an idea in teams. The teams had been formed many weeks in advance, so we all knew each other and had met on a few occasions- I picked up no red flags regarding how everyone else was behaving with me.

Cut to the day of the competition, we're given a couple hours to prepare and everything gets turned on its head. I could sense that deliberate attempts to either ignore or silence me were being made by my teammates and it was incredibly unnerving.

I'm generally the one in teams who likes to put forward ideas, collaborate with others in execution or take the lead, and I now found myself being reduced to a mere spectator because nothing I said or did was being entertained by my teammates.

An hour in, I managed to get a word in edgewise about the direction of our pitch but it was taken on in its entirety with neither any credit or acknowledgement given to me and my team simply moved on. Witnessing this, I realised that the only thing I really could do was listen, observe, take notes and and see if any of my efforts would be useful later on in the presentation. Although this was a new role for me in a teamwork context and made me feel uncomfortable at first, I found solace in having found at least something to do.

Given everybody's attitude towards me the whole day, I was unsurprisingly given the role of introducing our team (not the pitch, mind you), which I finished in less than 30 seconds and then stood watching while the rest of the team divided the remaining 9.5 minutes between them.

Once the presentation finished, some unexpected things happened. We were asked a few questions by a panel of judges that my team was rather unprepared to answer. You see, in focusing on excluding me and rushing to finish the presentation, the team had had forgotten to think about questions that we may be asked about budgets, organisation, execution etc.

Since I had done nothing but observe the team and think about our pitch for the last few hours, I found myself being able to answer the panel's questions with confidence and forethought, and when my team picked up on this, they stood watching in silence and inevitably let me take the lead. The day ended with us winning the competition and the judges personally reaching out to me later on to commend me on my ability to take on challenging questions. Till date, I am still in touch with the judges and am remembered for my performance in that competition, which is something that I never would've imagined happening at the beginning of it.

I took a few things away from this experience that I hope will help you reconcile with your negative experience-

• Being able to detach oneself from the role you expect to adopt in a team can help you flourish in unexpected ways.
  
  
• If your teammates are being exclusionary, don't wait for them to assign something to you and find something to do regardless.
  
  
• It is difficult to confront 'macho' team members while you're working on a group project, especially if they outnumber you/have ganged up on you, so you need to find unique ways to make yourself engaged in the project regardless of the attempts your teammates make to exclude you.
  
  
• Understand what really matters- in my case, it was the presentation and conversation with the judges that really mattered at the end of the day, and I think that maybe this was something I considered subconsciously. It seems like you did too, given that you are currently being heavily recruited!

I hope this helps- wishing you the very best!

 

[GXA123]

Some firms like to be thorough. I know it can be a lot to ask for, but they will only be asking things they think are relevant and important for them to help them make the right selection.

I seee, thanks a lot!

 

[lawstudent1111]

Hi everyone! I have a quick question regarding the LPC. I have received offers for both BPP and ULaw and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to make the choice. I was leaning more towards ULaw but I know that BPP has more partnerships with big-city law firms so I was unsure whether this might affect my applications later on... any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Hi everyone! I have a quick question regarding the LPC. I have received offers for both BPP and ULaw and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to make the choice. I was leaning more towards ULaw but I know that BPP has more partnerships with big-city law firms so I was unsure whether this might affect my applications later on... any help would be greatly appreciated!

I know there is a thread here on this forum about this if I can find it I will post it.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi everyone! I have a quick question regarding the LPC. I have received offers for both BPP and ULaw and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to make the choice. I was leaning more towards ULaw but I know that BPP has more partnerships with big-city law firms so I was unsure whether this might affect my applications later on... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Law firms don’t care where you do your LPC. It really won’t have any impact on future applications whether you choose one or the other (or any other LPC institution).

The only thing I would stress is how viable the LPC as a course (no matter who the provider is) will be. With many firms changing to the SQE in either 2023 or 2024, the LPC has a very short lifespan span, and it’s only really if you are looking to start a TC in 2023 that I think it is a good idea to pursue it.

The only good thing is that it will give you an exemption from SQE1, but that is a very expensive and longwinded way of getting an exemption.