TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[londonlawyer]

This threads and posts might be a useful read:

Converting your vacation scheme into a training contract - top tips in 2021

Hey all, A few people have asked about this so I thought we'd create a central thread for 2021. Anyone feel free to share your own top tips on converting a vacation scheme into a training contract. I'd recommend reading the following threads to kick us off...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

how many firms is everyone waiting on? im waiting on 3 and then that concludes my cycle! I'm waiting on two (planning on writing one more) and got one VS (with the great help of this forum!)

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

Generally, your conversion interview will focus more on your reflections on your vacation scheme (what you enjoyed, what was challegning, what was surprusing, how your interest in the firm has been reaffirmed or changed etc), and also how you may have generally developed as a candidate in the months since your vacation scheme interview. Be prepared to answer questions about where else you are applying and how those firms may differ to your VS firm both in terms of job opportunity and from a commercial awareness perspective.

It is less likely to be competency based as the feedback from your department is much more likely to cover the competencies they want to assess. It tends to be much more focus on career motivational questions and commercial awareness, but really tying both of those things to what you have learnt both from your scheme and also the other things you have done in recent months (e.g. how your studies are going, other vacation schemes you have done/have lined up, other recruitment processes you are involved in, new extracurriculars you are involved in).

Thank you so much @Jessica Booker !

 

[Logan1101]

If u have got to interview, you already tick all their boxes

Then why not offer all interviewees training contracts then? It's a broken and unfair recruitment process. I will keep saying this no matter what. Many people are overlooked or discriminated against and 'fairness' doesn't really exist.

 

[sarahlawconvert]

Has anyone heard back from the AS AstraZeneca Work Experience?

Has anyone heard back re the AstraZeneca Aspiring Solicitors group interview?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi @Andrei Radu if I am asked what attracted me to apply for a work experience a firm. How can i go about answering it.

Hi @tosin4774 I think the answer will for the most part be quite similar to a 'Why the firm' answer, but you should focus particularly on the specific work/other opportunities available under this placement. In essence, I think you have to do two things:

1. Explain why the particular work the firm offers exposure to via the placement is one that is of interest to you. To demonstrate this interest, you should illustrate your point by linking it to a relevant past academic/extracurricular/work experience. Word-count permitting, you should also include 1-2 sentences to explain what you hope to get out of the placement at the end of the day.
2. Explain why you are particularly attracted to the firm itself: here, the analysis will be the same as for a usual 'Why the firm' answer. By the end, it should be clear why you would prefer to go on this placement rather than a similar placement offered by a rival firm.

It is not necessary to address these two aspects in two separate paragraphs or sections. However, for a great response here, I think both of these points should be included in your answer.

 

[Chris Brown]

Then why not offer all interviewees training contracts then? It's a broken and unfair recruitment process. I will keep saying this no matter what. Many people are overlooked or discriminated against and 'fairness' doesn't really exist.

Some firms receive close to 5,000 applications each recruitment cycle. They have to draw the line somewhere to get the numbers down and make TC offers. It’s impossible for a firm to do this without ‘discriminating’ against someone. I think firms try to mitigate this with contextual recruitment and offering reasonable adjustments to candidates at each stage. 🙂

Firms generally interview the top 5-10% of the applicant pool each cycle. People who make it to interview have demonstrated potential, but it is up to the partners who assess them whether to offer a VS or TC. That assessment isn’t just based on vibes, but objective criteria. To some extent, there is subjectivity, but that does not amount to people being entirely overlooked. 🤷🏾‍♂️

The only way a firm could offer all interviewees a TC is by alienating and excluding thousands of candidates at the first stage, inviting the top 1% to interview (50/5,000). The other 4,950 candidates who got rejected could then all argue they were discriminated against or overlooked due to unfair processes. Ultimately, it’s a very difficult and competitive process for everyone. 🥲​

 

[Gr33n]

Stephenson Harwood summer 2 VS offer!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Could anyone please advise me on how to prepare for a vacation scheme? What are some things that I can do now so that I can place myself in a strong position to convert to a TC? How different is the approach I should take in relation to the TC interview compared to the VS interview?

Thank you so much!

I do not have much to add to the great response from @Jessica Booker - on the point about VS advice, I just thought to quote a post in which I collated some of the tips that proved most useful to me when I was doing VSs. On the point about TC interviews, to add a small caveat to Jess' points: there are a couple of firms that are known to treat the TC interview as isolated from prior ACs. In my case, when interviewing for a TC at the end of the Slaughter and May VS, I was asked many questions and follow-ups on my motivations for commercial law, my motivations for the firm, and my general skills and competencies. However, we were notified of this well beforehand, and I expect this will be the same at any firm that deviates from the more common 'reflective' style of final TC interview. Regardless, you can simply ask the graduate recruitment team about the style and format of the final interview during the scheme itself. If your firm is among the minority who has an AC-style interview, I think your preparation should be mostly the same. The only thing to keep in mind is that since this is further down the recruitment process, you may face more scrutiny and pushback on your reasoning. Thus, when preparing, you should be even more self-critical and continuously try to identify weak points in your answers.

Hi @ACivilLawyer and congratulations on getting the VS, it is a huge achievement! I have collated bellow some of my best tips on maximizing conversion chances.

Firstly, consider doing the following in the preparation period before the vacation scheme starts:

1. Review you firm research and answers for motivational questions: in many of the conversations you will be having with people at the firm, and in particular with the more senior practitioners, you will likely be asked some questions around your interest in the firm and your general motivations and journey. While they will not be assessed like formal interviews, it is important to impress, or at the very least not to make a bad impression. Also, this will be a good opportunity to see if you can update and add any insights to your answers (ie you might mention a deal or award that the firm recently got) which will distinguish you from others.
2. Brush up on your commercial awareness: while the specific way commercial awareness matters for the purposes of conversion tends to differ on a firm by firm basis, it is almost always an important factor. As such, in the coming weeks before the VS I would pay extra close attention to business news and see if there are any updates I should be aware about on important topics (inflation and monetary figures, economic growth, capital markets and dealmaking activity, etc). At the same time, try to fill any gaps in your general knowledge of how businesses work, the different economic sectors, and the roles and functions of the different actors and instruments in the world of finance and investing. I highly recommend Investopedia to build up your knowledge of business jargon.
3. Research the practice areas you will sit in: once you find out what your seats will be, take some time to understand what it is exactly lawyers in those practices do - why do clients need their services, and how do those services differ from those offered by other practice areas? Furthermore, try to get an understanding as to how delivering those services works in practice: what are the different workstreams and tasks involved on typical client matters, and which of those are trainees/vacation schemers most likely to work on? For this, I highly recommend the Westlaw/Practical Law Introductory Practice Area Guides; they go in a lot more detail than you will be expected to know but are the most comprehensive resource I know of.
4. Reach out and build rapport with people at the firm: It is always a good idea to try to build rapport early with people at the firm. As such, you could consider sending a LinkedIn text/email asking for advice or a chat with a trainee at the firm, particularly if you have met them in the past. I would also target people who are currently doing a seat in the practice area you have been allocated, as they will be able to give you the best advice on preparation. Building rapport with them is also particularly important, as graduate recruitment tends to emphasize the reviews of people in your seat when collating input for a TC offer decision. However, avoid appearing overeager and annoying people with busy schedules. Be very straightforward about your intentions and show your appreciation for the time they decide to give to you.

As for what to do during the vacation scheme itself, I advise the following:

• Be confident: while it sounds very cliche, I think this is a key factor impacting conversion chances. Having gotten to this stage out of a huge pool of applicants, you should be certain of the fact that you are an exceptional candidate and have everything you need to succeed. However, I have seen many people simply get too intimidated by the context of a prestigious commercial law firm, which disabled them from showing their skills, knowledge, and personality. Aim not to do that: be active, ask many questions, and communicate your thoughts and views, even if you are not 100% sure they are completely accurate.
• Be proactive and do your tasks well: an important trait firms look for in candidates is enthusiasm and initiative, so you definitely try to show that. One of the best ways of doing it is not waiting to be given work, but proactively going around and asking for it. When receiving a piece of work, I advise you to ask for detailed instruction, useful resources, supporting or guiding materials (such as similar work products completed by others in the past), and details as to deadlines and the expected time this should take to complete. At the end, it is always good to ask for feedback and then to try to act upon it on further tasks.
• Find out what are the most important assessment criteria for conversion (particularly by speaking with grad rec or current trainees): Different firms have different policies - for instance, in my case conversion at Slaughter and May was 100% determined by the final TC interview and written task, at Willkie it was mostly determined by the quality of your work and your integration in the firm's culture, at Milbank it was a combination of the final assessment and the impression you left on people on your team. To maximize conversion chances, you should modify your approach to match the factors emphasized by each firm.
• Take notes and be reflective: as you go through the vacation scheme, at the end of each day, write down a short summary of what you did: who did you meet and what did you learn from them, what tasks did you work on, what sessions did you attend etc. Firstly, this will help you in better answering some of the common questions you get when interacting with people at the firm ('How are you finding the experience?' etc. Secondly, as you approach the final interview, this will help you with being reflecting about the experience and showing that you have taken all the opportunities the firm offered.
• Meet as many people as possible, particularly in your department, but do not overdo it. Of course, it is great to integrate yourself as much as you can and to make as many people as possible notice you. However, you should not be spending every second of the day inviting people for coffee chats. Firstly, there are many other things you should be doing, like getting involved in different workstreams, attending sessions, and deepening your relationship with people you have already met, such as your supervisor. Secondly, as you will know, lawyers are often very stressed and have very little free time on their hands. Most will accept coffee chat requests, but they will appreciate if you do not waste their time by asking to meet only with a view of getting them to potentially put in a good word for you. Thus, I would advise you to always have a genuine reason for meeting someone. That does not need to necessarily be work-related - you can simply ask for a coffee chat because you want to introduce yourself and get to know people in the firm - but you should be upfront about it. Furthermore, try to get an idea from your supervisor as to who is more and less busy at the moment and avoid targeting the former.
• Mirror the attitude of those around you, and know when to be more relaxed: a crucial element of succeeding in many vacation schemes is to be able to build rapport with a few important people - particularly your supervisor, one or two lawyers you will get to work more with, and the recruitment partners. Try to read the attitude and expectations of those people and do not always attempt to impress them. In my experience, the people who ended up not converting tended to be the slightly overbearing ones who wanted to be constantly seen. Sometimes, such as at an event over drinks or at a lunch, people will want to simply relax a bit and forget about work. Other times, they may be too busy and stressed to want to engage with you about something serious. They could and also many times do want to take a slightly more lighthearted approach when talking about their work, so try not to seem like you are taking yourself too seriously. From what I have seen, people more often fail in adapting to these circumstances rather that when adapting to more formal dynamics.

 

[Logan1101]

Some firms receive close to 5,000 applications each recruitment cycle. They have to draw the line somewhere to get the numbers down and make TC offers. It’s impossible for a firm to do this without ‘discriminating’ against someone. I think firms try to mitigate this with contextual recruitment and giving reasonable adjustments to candidates at each stage. 🙂

Firms generally interview the top 5-10% of the applicant pool each cycle. People who make it to interview have demonstrated potential, but it is up to the partners who assess them whether to offer a VS or TC. That assessment isn’t just based on vibes, but objective criteria. To some extent, there is subjectivity, but that does not amount to people being entirely overlooked. 🤷🏾‍♂️

The only way a firm could offer all interviewees a TC is by alienating and excluding thousands of candidates at the first stage, inviting the top 1% to interview (50/5,000). The other 4,950 candidates who got rejected could then all argue they were discriminated against or overlooked due to unfair processes. Ultimately, it’s a very difficult and competitive process for everyone. 🥲​

The thing is you're already in the top 1% in an AC, but believe it or not, the acceptance rate at the assessment centre stage is as low as 20%-30%. That means you can make it through all these stages and still be more likely than not to be rejected. I honestly think partners are part of the problem, I don't buy this whole 'objective' criteria nonsense; it's a highly biased and discriminatory process when you make it to an interview with partners or associates.

Law firms are terrible recruiters in my opinion, but it's a symptom of the neoliberal world we live in.

 

[londonlawyer]

I do not have much to add to the great response from @Jessica Booker - on the point about VS advice, I just thought to quote a post in which I collated some of the tips that proved most useful to me when I was doing VSs. On the point about TC interviews, to add a small caveat to Jess' points: there are a couple of firms that are known to treat the TC interview as isolated from prior ACs. In my case, when interviewing for a TC at the end of the Slaughter and May VS, I was asked many questions and follow-ups on my motivations for commercial law, my motivations for the firm, and my general skills and competencies. However, we were notified of this well beforehand, and I expect this will be the same at any firm that deviates from the more common 'reflective' style of final TC interview. Regardless, you can simply ask the graduate recruitment team about the style and format of the final interview during the scheme itself. If your firm is among the minority who has an AC-style interview, I think your preparation should be mostly the same. The only thing to keep in mind is that since this is further down the recruitment process, you may face more scrutiny and pushback on your reasoning. Thus, when preparing, you should be even more self-critical and continuously try to identify weak points in your answers.

Thank you so much @Andrei Radu !

 

[Bread]

The thing is you're already in the top 1% in an AC, but believe it or not, the acceptance rate at the assessment centre stage is as low as 20%-30%. That means you can make it through all these stages and still be more likely than not to be rejected. I honestly think partners are part of the problem, I don't buy this whole 'objective' criteria nonsense; it's a highly biased and discriminatory process when you make it to an interview with partners or associates.

Law firms are terrible recruiters in my opinion, but it's a symptom of the neoliberal world we live in.

Being personable is a big part of the job, hope this helps

 

[Logan1101]

Being personable is a big part of the job, hope this helps

True, but how you're perceived is out of your control.

 

[futuretrainee417]

Is anybody else having issues with the Reed Smith Direct TC application form, specifically the University Grades section? I get this error message, "Request failed with status code 400". Does anybody have a way for me to get in touch with RARE? I spoke to grad rec and they said talk to them, but I can't find any active support email. I've troubleshooted as much as I can.

 

[yuk0n]

Is anybody else having issues with the Reed Smith Direct TC application form, specifically the University Grades section? I get this error message, "Request failed with status code 400". Does anybody have a way for me to get in touch with RARE? I spoke to grad rec and they said talk to them, but I can't find any active support email. I've troubleshooted as much as I can.

I didn't think the university grades section had anything to do with RARE?

 

[futuretrainee2025]

Hello! I have been allocated to a seat for a VS in an area that I am not particularly familiar with. I've read the firm pages on it, but otherwise have no idea how to prepare! There are lots of resources online and not sure where to start. Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello! I have been allocated to a seat for a VS in an area that I am not particularly familiar with. I've read the firm pages on it, but otherwise have no idea how to prepare! There are lots of resources online and not sure where to start. Any help would be much appreciated

What is the department/area of law?

 

[johnafleck6]

Stephenson Harwood summer 2 VS offer!

Hey congrats that’s amazing! Was that an email or a phone call? I’m certain I’ve been rejected as I got a very average amberjack score) and screwed up the interview bit too haha

 

[James Wakefield]

Hi, does anyone know what the “commercial exercise” with two associates for Fried Frank actually consists of! Thanks! (For the 1st round TC interviews)

Same question please! Any help would be great, including the nature of the interview. Thanks.

 

[Legal Wizard]

This threads and posts might be a useful read:

Converting your vacation scheme into a training contract - top tips in 2021

Hey all, A few people have asked about this so I thought we'd create a central thread for 2021. Anyone feel free to share your own top tips on converting a vacation scheme into a training contract. I'd recommend reading the following threads to kick us off...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

how many firms is everyone waiting on? im waiting on 3 and then that concludes my cycle! I'm waiting on two (planning on writing one more) and got one VS (with the great help of this forum!)

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

Generally, your conversion interview will focus more on your reflections on your vacation scheme (what you enjoyed, what was challegning, what was surprusing, how your interest in the firm has been reaffirmed or changed etc), and also how you may have generally developed as a candidate in the months since your vacation scheme interview. Be prepared to answer questions about where else you are applying and how those firms may differ to your VS firm both in terms of job opportunity and from a commercial awareness perspective.

It is less likely to be competency based as the feedback from your department is much more likely to cover the competencies they want to assess. It tends to be much more focus on career motivational questions and commercial awareness, but really tying both of those things to what you have learnt both from your scheme and also the other things you have done in recent months (e.g. how your studies are going, other vacation schemes you have done/have lined up, other recruitment processes you are involved in, new extracurriculars you are involved in).

This threads and posts might be a useful read:

Converting your vacation scheme into a training contract - top tips in 2021

Hey all, A few people have asked about this so I thought we'd create a central thread for 2021. Anyone feel free to share your own top tips on converting a vacation scheme into a training contract. I'd recommend reading the following threads to kick us off...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

how many firms is everyone waiting on? im waiting on 3 and then that concludes my cycle! I'm waiting on two (planning on writing one more) and got one VS (with the great help of this forum!)

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

Generally, your conversion interview will focus more on your reflections on your vacation scheme (what you enjoyed, what was challegning, what was surprusing, how your interest in the firm has been reaffirmed or changed etc), and also how you may have generally developed as a candidate in the months since your vacation scheme interview. Be prepared to answer questions about where else you are applying and how those firms may differ to your VS firm both in terms of job opportunity and from a commercial awareness perspective.

It is less likely to be competency based as the feedback from your department is much more likely to cover the competencies they want to assess. It tends to be much more focus on career motivational questions and commercial awareness, but really tying both of those things to what you have learnt both from your scheme and also the other things you have done in recent months (e.g. how your studies are going, other vacation schemes you have done/have lined up, other recruitment processes you are involved in, new extracurriculars you are involved in).

To add to this: I’ll give you a whistle stop tour of some tips that were helpful for me during my scheme. I recently converted a VS

First, carry around a notepad and pen around you can have conversations with people or anyone can say something potentially useful during the scheme so just write down their name and 1-3 useful pieces of advice that you gleaned from the conversation and then you’ll be able to augment it later to see if it can be utilised. Make a point of connecting with people outside of your supervisor and trainee buddy because everyone can give feedback on you. Don’t go overboard trying to meet everyone be strategic. For instance, on my scheme I figured out who were on the hiring committee and focused on them because I knew they would be in the wash up meeting at the end! Listen more than you speak. Can’t overstate that enough! Don’t be over enthusiastic! Be yourself, be interested. When your supervisor gives you work, remember they are your client, ask when they want the work by, how they want the work, the style, format etc., anything and ofc be inquisitive about how the work fits into the larger deal etc. Basics like grammar and spelling should be absolutely pinned down. If you run late with work because you’ll be doing other activities on the scheme, just let the person know give updates so they know how ur getting on with the work.

I am a firm believer in there is no such thing as a stupid question but there is such a thing as a lazy question. Whenever you need to ask a question to ur supervisor or trainee buddy or someone who has given you work, do some preliminary research beforehand. Then if you have a question go to the person and say I have this question and having done some research this is what I’ve arrived at but I just wanted to check that my understanding is right. This shows initiative, research skills and that you’re interested and keen.

Every firm is different in terms of final assessment/big interview. At my firm we had a 5 min presentation, followed by ques on the presentation, then that was followed by motivational/competency questions. Keep on top of commercial awareness, all the topical issues that are unfolding globally. Know your application and what you wrote in it. It is possible that one or both people conducting the interview will try to push you; don’t fold if you can substantiate your position they are testing to see if you are actually confident in the things you are saying.

In interview the question on why the firm, they’ll be wanting to see whether your position has changed mentally from what I term as: ‘I’m interested in a commercial law career and I’d like to explore this at the firm. Then you do your VS and they are wanting to see your position drastically change to I’m certain I want to be a commercial lawyer and I want to start my career at the firm’. The difference between those two positions is that you’ll have all your existing reasons but then you have acquired new interactions at the firm, work you’ve done that can better substantiate those reasons as well as having new experiences that add to the existing reasons so they want to see what you’ve gained from the VS so you have to go beyond what you said in your VS.

One question I got that initially threw me was: Some law firms are listing on the stock exchange can you discuss a few issues with that. This was something I had never encountered before as it’s not really impacting big firms, but I was able to tackle it well based on my knowledge about listing on the stock exchange and then extrapolate that into my knowledge of how firms operate, the duties lawyers owe to clients and professional regulatory bodies etc.

Good luck!

 

[aphelion]

How would people suggest connecting with trainee buddies/supervisors pre-VS? Is it just connecting on LinkedIn and saying hi ahead of meeting at the VS or should I formulate some questions to ask already?

 

[billyonthespeeddial]

Anyone else doing Debevoise Summer (July) scheme and had no updates since March? Guessing that's normal but just checking