TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Joey green]

Do you need a visa for Perkins Coie? Or can they sponsor one?

 

[johnnn821]

Guys does anyone have any resources to recommend on how to improve your presentation skills or how to prepare for a presentation during an interview?

 

[Kakaboo]

I’ve just received my buddy for my scheme, what kind of message should I drop him on LinkedIn? Thanks!

 

[trainee4u]

I think only finalists and graduates can apply for the legal business analyst (LBA) role, which is a form of permanent employment. Anyone who is not a finalist or graduate is not eligible to apply for the LBA role. They can apply for the Perkins Coie Summer VS instead. 😅​

I'm not really sure if it is permanent employment - at least previously the LBA was effectively a fixed-term 12-month paralegal role, but, uniquely, they would offer some candidates a further 12-month 'training contract', to take advantage of the fact that training contracts don't really exist in the SRA's eyes any more, so you could do 12 months as LBA (paralegal) and then presumably up or out onto their 'TC'.

It's definitely interesting and innovative that they are not messing around with long recruitment time frames, but instead are giving people immediate work with a focus on business rather than law.

Not quite sure at what point SQE would fit in, or whether they make people spend a further year doing the GDL.

 

[hfbjsdhfbhf]

Hi everyone! What are some common/potential topics for a commercial case study other than ESG or AI?

 

[trainee4u]

Thanks so much for the detailed response! I have a follow-up question about the LinkedIn aspect. I’m now connected to several people from Firm A who have congratulated me privately on the offer, so if I were to add a Firm B vacation scheme to my experience section later, it would be visible to them if they happened to check my profile. Do you think this would raise any eyebrows or look a bit off, given that I’ve already signed the offer letter with Firm A?

you don't have to update linkedin! You could just deactivate it for a while.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Looks like this is more of an undergraduate-only work experience program than a VS - it doesn't appear to lead to permanent employment, and graduates appear to be excluded.

As @Chris Brown has pointed out, that is not the case. This is a feeder programme to their Legal Business Analyst programme that is also mentioned in my post. We will check with the firm on the eligibility point as this has been raised in our WhatsApp chats as to whether graduates can apply.

Vacation schemes with any firm don't lead to permanent employment though, only a fixed-term contract of two years if you secure a TC.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Do you need a visa for Perkins Coie? Or can they sponsor one?

For both their roles you will need to right to work - this is stated at the end of both of the job adverts.

 

[billyonthespeeddial]

I believe that’s quite normal at this stage, especially as we’ve only just entered June. The firm will likely be in touch soon with pre-scheme materials or further details. If you haven’t heard anything closer to the start date, that would be a good time to follow up. But for now, I wouldn’t be too concerned.

Thank you!

 

[Gr33n]

Tax

RIP bro, thats arguably the hardest area of law. I sat in tax for a spring vac scheme and didnt convert despite having two years tax working experience. Not to scare you but idk anyone who has got a TC after sitting in tax so prepare yourself and get ready for the challenge. Feel free to message me and i can give you a few pointers.

 

[James Wakefield]

RIP bro, thats arguably the hardest area of law. I sat in tax for a spring vac scheme and didnt convert despite having two years tax working experience. Not to scare you but idk anyone who has got a TC after sitting in tax so prepare yourself and get ready for the challenge. Feel free to message me and i can give you a few pointers.

I didn’t convert after sitting in tax last year too but I think that’s because I was disappointed to be there and maybe that came across.

But I was silly to be disappointed really. This is a 1 or 2 week experience which is so short. It’s not a career in tax and as long as you’re in the right headspace, and not acting like you're disappointed, you’ll do fine.

You can arrange coffee chats with lawyers from the other teams and show your enthusiasm that way. You may even be able to ask for some work from a different team too if you’re ahead of things!

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

RIP bro, thats arguably the hardest area of law. I sat in tax for a spring vac scheme and didnt convert despite having two years tax working experience. Not to scare you but idk anyone who has got a TC after sitting in tax so prepare yourself and get ready for the challenge. Feel free to message me and i can give you a few pointers.

Just the counter this, I have seen plenty of people with no tax experience do well on their vacation schemes and convert.

 

[trainee4u]

As @Chris Brown has pointed out, that is not the case. This is a feeder programme to their Legal Business Analyst programme that is also mentioned in my post. We will check with the firm on the eligibility point as this has been raised in our WhatsApp chats as to whether graduates can apply.

Vacation schemes with any firm don't lead to permanent employment though, only a fixed-term contract of two years if you secure a TC.

It seems rather different in that normally you either sign a direct TC leading to guaranteed qualification as a solicitor, a title you can keep for the rest of your life and be eligible for NQS roles at the end, or you spend a few days on a VS pursuant to the same goal, whereas with this it appears that you get a fixed-term sink-or-swim role where if you don't make it you realistically are going to be looking for another two-year TC, so e.g.:

LBA 2025-6 - successful to 1-year TC 2026-2027 - qualify in 2027
or
LBA 2025-6 - unsuccessful to TC after 12 months; 2026-2027 (hopefully!) find TC, 2029-2031 - conventional training period - qualify in 2031

So the stakes are very high as you don't have the guaranteed qualification upon accepting the role, and if you don't make it, then you can be set back by four years.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

It seems rather different in that normally you either sign a direct TC leading to guaranteed qualification as a solicitor, a title you can keep for the rest of your life and be eligible for NQS roles at the end, or you spend a few days on a VS pursuant to the same goal, whereas with this it appears that you get a fixed-term sink-or-swim role where if you don't make it you realistically are going to be looking for another two-year TC, so e.g.:

LBA 2025-6 - successful to 1-year TC 2026-2027 - qualify in 2027
or
LBA 2025-6 - unsuccessful to TC after 12 months; 2026-2027 (hopefully!) find TC, 2029-2031 - conventional training period - qualify in 2031

So the stakes are very high as you don't have the guaranteed qualification upon accepting the role, and if you don't make it, then you can be set back by four years.

I’d stress that there is no guarantees of qualification anymore. Unlike the old qualification system, firms are no longer tied to employing you for two years as a trainee.

But yes, it is a slightly different graduate opportunity to a traditional training contract. I see it as an interesting opportunity for those who are looking for something to start sooner rather than later and maybe considering other opportunities like paralegal roles this autumn.

 

[saminoriya]

Hi, guys!

Today it finally happened. I got offered a training contract!
It was a long journey. I had at least 10 unsuccessful interviews/vac schemes. I felt so discouraged every time, but I kept going and it worked!
Thanks to all of you, I wouldn’t make it without the TCLA support!
You are the best❤️

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi, guys!

Today it finally happened. I got offered a training contract!
It was a long journey. I had at least 10 unsuccessful interviews/vac schemes. I felt so discouraged every time, but I kept going and it worked!
Thanks to all of you, I wouldn’t make it without the TCLA support!
You are the best❤️

Love to see it! Huge huge congratulations. I hope you celebrate well

 

[futuretrainee2025]

Just the counter this, I have seen plenty of people with no tax experience do well on their vacation schemes and convert.

Thank you! Any specific advice?

 

[Andrei Radu]

I’ve just received my buddy for my scheme, what kind of message should I drop him on LinkedIn? Thanks!

Hi @Kakaboo I think you should just write a short introduction, followed up by a request for any advice they may have for you. It could go something like this:

Hi ... (trainee's name), my name is ... (your name) and I just found out you will be my trainee buddy for my upcoming vacation scheme, so I thought I would quickly introduce myself here. Looking forward to joining the firm and also meeting you in person there!

I also just wanted to ask if you have any advice or tips regarding preparation for the scheme - are there any materials you think it would be useful for me to familiarize myself with?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Guys does anyone have any resources to recommend on how to improve your presentation skills or how to prepare for a presentation during an interview?

Hi @johnnn821 I have quoted below two posts in which I discussed this topic:

Hey @ghostyb, first of all huge congratulations for the AC, it is a big achievement! I have had presentations included in my VS/TC interviews before, though in my case I received the details of the exercise one or two days prior to the assessment and I got to use a power point presentation. In terms of your questions about what it could look like, the only one I can properly address is the first, as I think (based on my experience and that of others) that it is quite likely the presentation will be on a commercial topic. This way, firms get to test both your ability to digest and synthetize information and your general commercial awareness. As to the split - there could be many reasons for it and many ways to divide a topic in two parts; it could be something as simple as there being two different questions they want you to answer based on the same research material. Finally, I believe it is somewhat more likely that there will not be a choice of topics involved, as having a single topic is simply easier administratively and arguably leads to a more objective performance assessment.

Now, regarding preparation advice, I have two main pointers. Firstly, to improve your capacity for substantive commercial analysis, try to brush up on your commercial awareness. Listen to podcasts and read business news widely at first to ensure you are aware of all the important current issues, and then delve deeper into the stories that you think are more relevant for the firm's core practice areas. Secondly, to improve your communication and public speaking skills, do a couple of mock presentations following this structure. You can get a friend to select a few articles on a controversial commercial topic and then task you to read that under time conditions and then present a summary of the facts and your views on the issues. Ideally, your friend could then ask some follow up questions and argue against some of your points to also prepare you to defend your claims.

Finally, a bit of advice for how to manage the Q&A part during the day: it is quite possible that the partners will push back on your arguments and question your understanding of certain issues, but you need to be able to maintain composure and defend your views. This does not mean that you should never accept any criticisms or make clarifications when appropriate, of course you should. If they bring up relevant points, acknowledge that, and then seek to include them in a synthesis view combined with your points or explain why, despite being relevant, they do not carry as much weigh as the considerations you have brought up. It is important to show that you can argue for your viewpoint even when facing the pressure of an opposite opinion from someone more senior. This not only demonstrates desirable qualities like resilience and confidence, but is essential in commercial law, when many times you will find yourself negotiating or arguing on behalf of your client with someone more senior from the other side.

Hi @a3736y I think with most presentation task you just want to ensure you (i) have a very clear structure; (ii) deliver it in a composed and articulate manner; and (iii) focus on the interesting points of analysis and discussion. For (i) the details of the exact structure you employ will differ significantly based on the topic and the amount of information you want to convey. For example, it could look something like this:

1. First 15-30 seconds: you state the the topic and lay out the structure of your presentation
2. Next 1-1.5 minute: explain in a concise format the essential facts about the news story
3. From minute 2 to minute 3: note down new developments
4. From minute 3 to 4.30: analyze any controversial points and different views about the issues, providing some outline of an argument for your view
5. Final 30 seconds: summarize the points you have discussed and open the floor for questions

However, I think you would probably benefit the most by trying to fit your presentation into different formats and see what works best in practice. For (ii), again i think practice will be essential. You should record and assess your performance yourself, or, even better, have a friend do it for you. Then, repeat the presentation again and again until you are happy with your delivery. Finally, for (iii) I think you should try to read widely in the press about the chosen topic so that you can discuss the main arguments backing up the different viewpoints.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some practical advice on how to deal with very busy supervisors during VSs. I’ve noticed I tend to get great feedback from more involved supervisors (the ones who check in regularly, have tasks planned for you etc), but I struggle with very busy/hands-off supervisors.

In a recent VS that I didn’t convert, one of my supervisors (let's call them supervisor 1) checked in with me throughout the day, planned my tasks ahead of time, and gave me excellent feedback. Whereas supervisor 2, who was quite busy, gave me bad feedback (GR didn't tell me the specifics, just that I scored poorly in their evaluation). I don't think my work quality was the issue as all my work was reviewed by another lawyer (supervisor 2 was too busy to review it), and I only received positive feedback for my work. Therefore, I think the problem might be that I bothered supervisor 2 too much.

As supervisor 2 didn't check in with me, I tried to be proactive: I’d stop by their office (I was seated away from them) once or twice a day (usually morning/lunch and before leaving) to say hello, let them know what I was working on, and ask if they needed help. They also didn't give me any tasks initially, so I asked others around for tasks (I thought that was better than doing nothing). I did get tasks from others, but eventually a more senior lawyer intervened, said they would speak with my supervisor about the situation, and after that I started receiving tasks from them. I feel terrible, as I didn't mean to create more stress for supervisor 2 - I just didn't want to sit idle all week and was concerned I’d have nothing to speak about in the upcoming partner interview (as we were told it would be based on the tasks we completed).

Thankfully, I have another VS starting soon. However, I’m worried I might face a similar situation. So my questions are:

- With busy supervisors, how often should you try to speak to them in a day?​

- Is it better to wait for them to approach you/check in instead?​

- How many tasks would you typically be expected to complete in a week?​

- If your supervisor doesn't give you tasks, how long should you wait before asking others?​

I’d really appreciate any practical tips or insights (including advice that goes beyond my specific questions!). Thank you!

@Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman

Hi @KBanana I will give you my thoughts on each of your questions in turn:

1. With busy supervisors, how often should you try to speak to them in a day?
The first thing to point out here is the obvious fact that supervisors are also human, and thus prone to inappropriate reactions and mistakes, particularly when under a lot of stress. The experience you have described could in part be explained by the supervisor's resentment with a senior lawyer making him change his approach. Unfortunately, this kind of potential reaction is a factor you cannot completely control. People can be emotional and act unpredictably, and sometimes this results in unfair consequences for others.

Nonetheless, there are some things you can do to reduce the likelihood of this situation reoccurring. To then address the point of your question, I think it is crucial to read the room and have a flexible attitude. There is no set number of times you should try to speak to them. Whenever you return to the office after a longer period of time, you can just say hi and see what reaction you get. If the supervisor quickly mutters a greeting back and then returns to work without saying anything else, you should assume they do not want to speak more and should respect that. In my vacation schemes, I had days I would have maybe one 2-3 minute conversation with the supervisor and not interact further. However, I ended up receiving positive feedback from them.

2. Is it better to wait for them to approach you/check in instead?
Once again, I think this largely depends on the intangibles of their situation and your dynamic, although you can also try to address this directly when you first meet them by asking what they prefer.

3. How many tasks would you typically be expected to complete in a week?
There is definitely no set number for how many tasks you should complete, and for good reason. Some tasks may take a few days to an entire week, while others could be completed in a few hours. At the same time, some departments will be a lot busier than others and thus have many tasks you can get involved in, while some will not. Similarly, some practice areas have more tasks that vacation schemers can attempt to complete, while others are more technical and have a higher requirement of prior knowledge.

My advice here is to simply seek to keep your schedule busy and not overextend yourself. As long as it is clear from the nature of your tasks/your conversations with people in the department that you have done your best to do what you would be expected to as a trainee, this will not be an aspect that will hold you back in terms of conversion.

4. If your supervisor doesn't give you tasks, how long should you wait before asking others?
Like many other things, I think this is an issue that you should discuss directly with the supervisor themselves, as different people will have different preferences and different firms will have different policies/cultures. You should also ask the supervisor how they would advise you to go about asking for work - presumably, they will advise you to ask in a manner that does not raise eyebrows.

This touches upon the final matter I wanted to discuss: when you go asking others for work, you need to ensure you do so in a way that is least likely to reflect negatively on the supervisor. Thus, instead of saying something like 'Do you have any tasks I could help with? My supervisor is quite busy so they couldn't involve me in any of their work' (which suggests your supervisor is not doing their job well in managing you), you should say something like 'I have some capacity left - so I wanted to ask if there are any tasks I can help you with?' (which sounds a lot more neutral).