TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Chris Brown]

Thanks for the advice…. I do feel torn between giving up working retail and taking on unpaid voluntary or unpaid internship roles… which would mean I have no income to survive but a good opportunity to pad out my cv

Most law firms value retail jobs because there are way more transferable skills that you can develop and strengthen from these jobs than doing one week of shadowing a solicitor. I don’t have any legal work experience and it hasn’t massively impacted my chances of progressing for firms just yet. I have been able to get past the application stage for White & Case, Willkie, BCLP and Paul, Weiss!

If retail is a primary source of income and without it you would struggle financially, I don’t think it’s a good idea to give it up in the hopes of securing a career in law. If anything, I think working alongside submitting applications to law firms would be a lot more impressive to graduate recruiters and partners.

The only time legal work experience is needed or expected is when you apply for DTC but even then if you have substantial non-legal work experience (which you definitely have seeing that you have worked in retail since you were 16), I don’t think it matters too much.

Similar to what @Tclarocks123 has mentioned above, I have also heard from partners, associates and graduate recruitment staff of US firms that they value non-legal experience way more than legal experience. I would say to keep your non-legal retail job and if you can find voluntary or internship roles that you can balance with your job then do those as well.​

 

[latome19]

I guess the better question is: why would achieving excellent grades be incompatible with working in hospitality roles, and vice versa? I don’t think that either of these takes genuinely addresses the question of which skills are most important for a lawyer. Imho, this is just rehashing a debate about class in a way that has recently been very unproductive for the legal profession.

 

[l789]

I’d recommend reading the comments to the post, which overwhelmingly disagree with it. Retail work is great evidence for an application - it shows a lot of transferable skills and also the fact you can do a normal, sometimes boring, sometimes demanding job where you have to serve others. That actually sets you up for law very well!

Thanks Jessica. Personally, my only problem is that my cv is predominantly retail (3/4 retail jobs) with tutoring, a consulting project, open days, an insight scheme and a research volunteer role.

I’m seeing if I can take on a casework volunteer role but the vast majority of applicants have this experience already- tutoring/ probono casework - so it’s nothing that stands out.

I am thinking of going unemployed to take on two different volunteering roles.

It’s difficult as I’m trying to push myself and increase my candidacy, but it’s a hard judgement call to make as to what to sacrifice.

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

Thanks Jessica. Personally, my only problem is that my cv is predominantly retail (3/4 retail jobs) with tutoring, a consulting project, open days, an insight scheme and a research volunteer role.

I’m seeing if I can take on a casework volunteer role but the vast majority of applicants have this experience already- tutoring/ probono casework - so it’s nothing that stands out.

I am thinking of going unemployed to take on two different volunteering roles.

It’s difficult as I’m trying to push myself and increase my candidacy, but it’s a hard judgement call to make as to what to sacrifice.

I hope you're also including in your work experience descriptions all of the things you learned about how the retail businesses operate because that's all very relevant commercial awareness that you wouldn't get from doing purely legal work!

 

[otw2atc]

Hi all

I’m in the very fortunate position of having secured my first vacation scheme at a dream firm which I’m so excited about.

A bit of background to me, I’m a career changer having spent the last few years working at a UK finance company in a variety of roles.

Initially my plan was to take two weeks of annual leave for the vacation and not say anything to my employer, however I dug out my contract yesterday and I found that it says:

18. Other Employment

You may not during Your employment without Your line manager's prior written consent, be in any way directly or indirectly engaged or concerned with any other business or employment. Such consent will not be unreasonably refused.

Now I guess I’m faced with a dilemma. I’ve never mentioned anything to my current employer about me wanting to make a career change and transition to law so this would be very much out of the blue. I also don’t want them to question my loyalty to the company and burn any bridges as I need to plan for a worst case scenario of not being successful at the vacation scheme. I don’t want to be in a position where I’m suddenly sidelined and then I find myself (in a worst case scenario) out of a job one day.

This is why I was initially not going to say anything and just take annual leave. I’d love any advice on what the best thing to do here is. I’m afraid that if I don’t say anything and then my company finds out e.g. through a LinkedIn tag/photo or some other means. Is this realistic? Would they have any way of actually finding out?

A part of me is thinking is it worth the risk? Would the law firm look at me differently if they knew I had misled my company by withholding this information? I’m really stuck at the moment and I would appreciate any advice, especially if you’ve been in a similar position to me. @Jessica Booker

Thanks!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks Jessica. Personally, my only problem is that my cv is predominantly retail (3/4 retail jobs) with tutoring, a consulting project, open days, an insight scheme and a research volunteer role.

I’m seeing if I can take on a casework volunteer role but the vast majority of applicants have this experience already- tutoring/ probono casework - so it’s nothing that stands out.

I am thinking of going unemployed to take on two different volunteering roles.

It’s difficult as I’m trying to push myself and increase my candidacy, but it’s a hard judgement call to make as to what to sacrifice.

Personally, I wouldn’t recommend this.

Instead, I would consider whether you could build up annual leave in your current role to do a short internship or volunteer role, whether paid or unpaid.

 

[GettingThereSomehow]

Any tips or has anyone done the Burges Salmon AC? 🙏
There's 4 tasks; WG, group exercise, written exercise and partner interview

Also how would an executive summary be structured? Is it a subheading itself? Is it necessary for written exercises? 🤔

 

[jta227]

Thanks for the advice…. I do feel torn between giving up working retail and taking on unpaid voluntary or unpaid internship roles… which would mean I have no income to survive but a good opportunity to pad out my cv

Theoretically you can use annual leave for short internships. But I agree with what everyone else has said in that the person posting on LinkedIn is objectively incorrect. Have heard personally from many extremely competitive firms that they value retail experience a lot.

 

[Gr33n]

Anyone done Reed AC?

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

I’ve just seen a post on LinkedIn about how “You should not be working retail or hospitality if you want a top graduate job” in relation to training contracts.

I’d be interested to see what people think of this and the benefits of retail. Considering it’s been all I’ve known since I was 16, and it’s nerve wracking to think I’m more experienced in retail than law, however gaining legal work experience in any capacity has been extremely tough- especially throughout university and summer holidays.

Someone PLEASE tell me who posted this, seen it on Reddit too

 

[Amma Usman]

I’ve just seen a post on LinkedIn about how “You should not be working retail or hospitality if you want a top graduate job” in relation to training contracts.

I’d be interested to see what people think of this and the benefits of retail. Considering it’s been all I’ve known since I was 16, and it’s nerve wracking to think I’m more experienced in retail than law, however gaining legal work experience in any capacity has been extremely tough- especially throughout university and summer holidays.

I always take what I see on social media with a pinch of salt. In my opinion, you can get a job in any field you want (not just law), with any existing experience you have. As with any job application, the first question to ask yourself is…how do you sell yourself? The second is, are you properly leveraging your experiences in line with the role? Any job will require candidates to have qualities like attention to detail, proactivity, organisational management, and so on - whether law or retail. If you have worked in retail, you have this and can certainly leverage it to your advantage. The third question is, how much knowledge have you built on the industry and recruitment into that industry? If you know how recruitment operates, have the knowledge and network to understand and tackle application processes, and a general awarenesses of industry specifics, you’re on the right track. This is not an overnight thing. But I always say this, little steps compound - whether it’s attending webinars on leveraged finance, or reading a new book on private equity, or attending an open day - effort does not go to waste ever and knowledge will forever take one far.

 

[VacSchemer]

Did anyone complete the Pinsent Masons (Dubai) AC for their gateway programme?

 

[badmintonflyinginsect]

Can someone provide a guide to private credit?

 

[Legal Wizard]

Hi all

I’m in the very fortunate position of having secured my first vacation scheme at a dream firm which I’m so excited about.

A bit of background to me, I’m a career changer having spent the last few years working at a UK finance company in a variety of roles.

Initially my plan was to take two weeks of annual leave for the vacation and not say anything to my employer, however I dug out my contract yesterday and I found that it says:

18. Other Employment

You may not during Your employment without Your line manager's prior written consent, be in any way directly or indirectly engaged or concerned with any other business or employment. Such consent will not be unreasonably refused.

Now I guess I’m faced with a dilemma. I’ve never mentioned anything to my current employer about me wanting to make a career change and transition to law so this would be very much out of the blue. I also don’t want them to question my loyalty to the company and burn any bridges as I need to plan for a worst case scenario of not being successful at the vacation scheme. I don’t want to be in a position where I’m suddenly sidelined and then I find myself (in a worst case scenario) out of a job one day.

This is why I was initially not going to say anything and just take annual leave. I’d love any advice on what the best thing to do here is. I’m afraid that if I don’t say anything and then my company finds out e.g. through a LinkedIn tag/photo or some other means. Is this realistic? Would they have any way of actually finding out?

A part of me is thinking is it worth the risk? Would the law firm look at me differently if they knew I had misled my company by withholding this information? I’m really stuck at the moment and I would appreciate any advice, especially if you’ve been in a similar position to me. @Jessica Booker

Thanks!

People do this all the time and most contracts stipulate this. So, if you think about it, no working person would get a TC through a VS route. I have 2 friends that said nothing, took annual leave and now have the TC at SH and Latham. I think you have to do what is best for you. If you have a good relationship with your supervisor and they are supportive - ultimately their allegiance is to the company but maybe you have a close relationship with your supervisor? Personally I would do it and not say a word. For one, I don’t believe that it impugns your integrity- firms are aware working people do this. Second, if your firm knows you’re essentially looking for other employment that could adversely affect you if you don’t get the TC. Also, when these companies are ready to fire you, they do it- no questions asked no considerations for your personal circumstances.

It’s your annual leave you can do with it what you like. I would say if you believe the VS would be a conflict of interest due to the nature of the work you do, then yeah maybe say something but otherwise keep it to yourself and go get that TC! Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[AS24]

Hiya @AS24

Great question! I'm sure @Andrei Radu and @Amma Usman could add more here, but I tend to approach this question much like I would "Why Me?" in a cover letter. I think the key is to make your response personal, specific, and relevant to the firm. I'd also try to incorporate vivid or compelling examples, ones which really demonstrate how your skills, experiences, and interests make you a great fit for the firm.

One way to approach this is by identifying your key strengths and connecting them to the firm’s "USPs". For instance, if the firm is known for work in certain practice areas or client sectors, mentioning your own experience with these sectors can be a real asset. I worked in a very research intensive university hospital for several years and gained a strong understanding of developments in life sciences as a result, and this was something I highlighted when applying to firms like Cooley and Goodwin.

Similarly, my experience of managing international development projects while living overseas allowed me to highlight not just an interest in international work but a genuine understanding of what can go wrong in project finance matters that occur in other countries. Alternatively, if a firm has very lean teams, think about the particular skills that would be in demand for trainees joining such firms, and any experiences you have which demonstrate those types of skills.

Overall, I think the strongest answers will be able to (1) identify certain aspects of the firm (e.g. practice areas, lean teams, nature of their work or clients) and (2) potentially identify certain skills you have that will be a real asset for a firm with those specific features.

Hope this helps and good luck with the video interview!

Thank you @Ram Sabaratnam

 

[g.cl.2020344]

Just did the Wombles SJT.

Very generic, lots of reused questions. No 'slider' questions, just choose the 'best' and 'worst' answers of four. One of the numerical questions had a minor error, another was quite ambiguous.

Scored:

• verbal - excelled
• numerical - excelled
• grit - 4
• applied intellect (social) - 3
• creative - 7
• digital mindset - 7

Heya, also just did the SJT, how long did it take to receive your feedback report?

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

Heya, also just did the SJT, how long did it take to receive your feedback report?

It was immediate for me.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi all

I’m in the very fortunate position of having secured my first vacation scheme at a dream firm which I’m so excited about.

A bit of background to me, I’m a career changer having spent the last few years working at a UK finance company in a variety of roles.

Initially my plan was to take two weeks of annual leave for the vacation and not say anything to my employer, however I dug out my contract yesterday and I found that it says:

18. Other Employment

You may not during Your employment without Your line manager's prior written consent, be in any way directly or indirectly engaged or concerned with any other business or employment. Such consent will not be unreasonably refused.

Now I guess I’m faced with a dilemma. I’ve never mentioned anything to my current employer about me wanting to make a career change and transition to law so this would be very much out of the blue. I also don’t want them to question my loyalty to the company and burn any bridges as I need to plan for a worst case scenario of not being successful at the vacation scheme. I don’t want to be in a position where I’m suddenly sidelined and then I find myself (in a worst case scenario) out of a job one day.

This is why I was initially not going to say anything and just take annual leave. I’d love any advice on what the best thing to do here is. I’m afraid that if I don’t say anything and then my company finds out e.g. through a LinkedIn tag/photo or some other means. Is this realistic? Would they have any way of actually finding out?

A part of me is thinking is it worth the risk? Would the law firm look at me differently if they knew I had misled my company by withholding this information? I’m really stuck at the moment and I would appreciate any advice, especially if you’ve been in a similar position to me. @Jessica Booker

Thanks!

This is a pretty common/standard terms in any employment contract for full time roles, especially in regulated industries or the public sector.

Enough people breach their employment contract by undertaking various forms of employment on top of their job that stipulates this type of term.

How seriously your original employer will consider it a breach of contract is going to depend on how much it conflicts with or impacts your job. There can also be some issues of honesty and ethics if you have not been truthful about the situation.

However, many vacation scheme students manage to keep it quiet and no one finds out. When they do, they often have to think about what they say to various people - not just in their current job but also the people they will interact with during their vacation scheme.

Being tagged on LinkedIn or having your photo on a “welcome our vacation scheme students” post is a possibility - so you have to factor that risk in. How connected your job/employer is to your vacation scheme firm means that risk is going to be varied from person to person.

You’ll also have to factor in conflict checks too. It’s not impossible for a conflicts check to flag up something that would potentially need to be flagged back to your employer or that the firm would say you would need to flag to your employer. But again the chances of this highly depend on what your job is and who you are employed by.

But ultimately you are going to breach of your employment contract and you have to consider that doing so could lead to your job ending. You have to calculate your risks and your risk tolerance to work out what to do.

 

[anonymouscatboy]

Does anyone know the preferred percentage for the Watson Glaser test at Freshfields?

 

[Babablacksheep]

why is hogan lovells not responding after WG