TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Chris Brown]

If I indicated summer/spring for PW, can i assume pfo at this point?

You may have seen my posts on the forum in the middle of last week where I was on the verge of crashing out because I hadn’t heard anything from Paul, Weiss and I had convinced myself it was a PFO (seeing others had also been PFO’d). 🥲🥲

To my surprise (literally I was shocked and I still am), I was invited to interview on Friday. I guess my point here is, no news is always going to be good news. It’s easy to assume it’s a PFO, but until that email doesn’t come through, try to keep a positive mindset. 🙂🙂

Best of luck for Paul, Weiss @Joey green I’m sure you’ll get good news soon. 🙂🙂

I also applied for both Spring and Summer because I’m simply too indecisive lmao. 😂😂​

 

[jojo23]

Anybody heard from shoosmiths (post test) and crs (post vi)?

 

[andreilover01]

Hi everyone, I have an AC with Jones Day coming up, and would really appreciate any and all insight!!

 

[BBsharkk]

Anyone still being ghosted by Akin, Gibson and Milbank post-app? 😂

 

[g.cl.2020344]

Anyone still being ghosted by Akin, Gibson and Milbank post-app? 😂

I really don’t understand firms who leave you as though you never applied!! I applied to GD 1st Sept- the day they opened and did their first year insight scheme!! I haven’t heard anything and emailed them and they responded two weeks ago saying they are still looking at applications which is lowkey insulting because I’ve seen people get VS offers on LinkedIn!!! Sorry for the rant lol

 

[Jaysen]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to follow up for those who were here on Friday/have experienced the user BreadandButter or 'yourworstnightmareisback'. Thank you to everyone who reported this person and to @Jessica Booker for managing this.

We have a few ways we monitor duplicate accounts and we are about 90% sure we know who this is. Interestingly, they seem to have another account that is much nicer to everyone and one they use to react to people/be aggressive in the forums.

We've restricted one of the accounts to require approval before posting. If this is you, then I'd just suggest reviewing why you are creating new accounts to troll users. It might be more worthwhile to just focus on the law firm process.

A caveat to this is that we do sometimes get this wrong, though, and if this is the case, you can private message Jessica or email me at [email protected]. Please also do the same if you interact with a user you feel is a previously banned account. Jess and I are really keen to make sure this community stays as kind and supportive as you are. It's only ever a tiny proportion of users like this, but we want to make sure we action this very quickly.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi Andrei

This is so insightful, thank you for sharing!

If I may, can you help me understand more about who Skadden’s direct competitors are? I’m trying to understand whether Skadden’s direct competitors are simply other US firms or if it is broader than that. Thank you.

Hi @TonyStark I think you can think of competitors in two main ways. Firstly, at the level of the firms as a whole, we would essentially look for the firms that share the most important features of Skadden for the purposes of defining market position. While the exact features that are most important for outlining market position are debatable, I would describe Skadden in London in the following way: a large office of an elite US firm with a diverse offering of practice areas but a focus on high end transactional work. The two other firms that best fit this description are Latham & Watkins and White & Case.

The second way to think about competitors is at a practice area level, where two questions are relevant - (i) which are the firms with the strongest teams in that practice, and (ii) which other firms would Skadden most often find itself pitching against when trying to win a mandate? For firms like Skadden, which excel in most of their practice area, there is a substantial deal of overlap between the two. Now, looking at Skadden's most important practice areas, we get the following:

• Corporate M&A (which is Skadden's most important practice area by far): the Magic Circle firms (as they are still the undisputed leaders of the UK corporate market) and Latham & Watkins, Cleary Gottlieb, Davis Polk and Sullivan & Cromwell (firms Skadden would most often come up against when fighting for transatlantic deals or deals originating from US clients).
• Banking & Finance: Borrowers: Once again the MC firms have leading positions in this area, and on the US side we have Cleary Gottlieb, White & Case, and Ropes & Gary
• International Arbitration: Commercial Arbitration: Kings & Spalding, Gibson Dunn, Latham, Quinn Emmanuel, Debevoise, and White & Case.

 

[Andrei Radu]

hi! what are the advantages of a firm following a sector based approach?
@Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman

Hey @a1024 I answered this in an in depth post a while ago, I will quote it bellow:

Hey @legal18 so I think there are a number of associated benefits of a sector-focused approach from both a client and an employee perspective:

Benefits for clients:

1. Ease of service: essentially, a sector-focused firm will deliver legal services in a way that is a lot easier for the client to use. Firstly, if a firm organizes teams more around sectors than practice areas, it looks and is a lot more similar to the client's business. Businesses perceive themselves as players in a certain industry and do not neatly separate their legal needs between the different workstreams of different practice areas. Thus, the legal service of sector-focused firms seems a lot more tailored to the client. Secondly, industry-focused firms tend to have partners with significantly broader expertise. Hence, the firm can provide a 'one-point-of-contact' system to clients, which is easier to navigate administratively.
2. Strategic advice: the idea is that if you spend years and years working on matters in a single industry, by the time you become a more senior practitioner you will have almost as much technical expertise in the sector as the client themselves. Having this kind of deep insight and knowledge of the industry will not only mean that you can give better advice to clients on particular mandates, but it will also mean you will be in a better position to form a client-lawyer relationship which goes beyond that. This way, you will have a good chance of getting to know all the insides of the client's business and becoming their go-to strategic advisor. Thus, the client gets the benefit of exceptional business and legal advisory services simultaneously.
3. Industry reputation: if the firm generally does a lot of high-end work in a particular sector, it will become very reputable with businesses in that sector. The fact that firm will simply be a very well-known name definitely helps in terms of shaping advantageous negotiations dynamics with opposing counsel. A great example of this is Kirkland in the PE sphere. Simply because of the firm's reputation in this area, it is able to obtain advantageous terms for clients by insisting they are "market terms". Because nobody does as many deals as they do in PE, it is sometimes difficult for the other side's counsel to counteract Kirkland's claims.

Benefits for employees:

1. Learning more about the intricacies of the sector as a benefit in itself: if you have a prior interest in a given sector of the economy, working for a firm that has a focus on that sector will enable you to get a lot more exposure to it, which can be a benefit in and of itself. Just as you might have a general interest in commercial law because you have a general interest in learning more about and working with businesses, you might also have a specific interest in sector-focused firms because you have a specific interest in learning more about the sector. This reasoning will be especially persuasive if you have some previous work or other relevant experience related to the sector. Personally, I have seen candidates write persuasive answers based on this type of question in regards to sectors ranging from tech and financial services to energy, pharma and transportation.
2. Becoming a true strategic business advisor: this is similar to the line of reasoning you mentioned but is focused on long-term career prospects. As mentioned before, repeated experience in a single industry means you will in time become very technically proficient in your understanding of it. This puts you in a great position to become a true strategic adviser, which is potentially a more interesting role than just dealing with their legal requests.
3. More high-end mandates: if the firm can generally provide better service than its competitors because of its sector focus, this also means that the firm will be better placed to win the top of the market mandates from that industry. This might be naturally attractive to you, as these mandates tend to be the among the most complex and consequential.

 

[theruleofno]

Anyone still being ghosted by Akin, Gibson and Milbank post-app? 😂

I think all 3 have given out VS offers for both spring and summer

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi @Ram Sabaratnam! Any tips for the Cooley AC? ☺️

Hiya @James Wakefield

The Cooley assessment centre was quite a full-on day when I did it, and if the structure remains the same, you can expect a packed schedule. This schedule included (1) a group exercise; (2) lunch and chats with people at the firm; and (3) two separate interviews, one with an associate and another with a partner.

In my cycle, the morning involved a group exercise. We were expected to successfully pass this stage to proceed to the interviews in the afternoon. The group exercise had a strong commercial focus, so it’s worth taking some time to think about the kinds of issues that often arise in commercial exercises involving investment decisions, M&A considerations, and other types of similar business challenges. Beyond commercial awareness, the usual group exercise rules apply - try to show your ability to work effectively with others. There’s also a presentation element, where clarity, a client-focused approach, and time management all play a big role. There weren’t any written exercises when I did it, so I don't think you'll have to worry about that here.

Between the group exercise and the interviews, you'll have lunch and a chance to chat with trainees, associates, and the wonderful training principal, Claire Temple. This is a great opportunity to ask any questions you genuinely have about the firm, but also to get to know people in a more informal, relaxed setting. You might feel a bit nervous during this time, since some candidates will be unsuccessful at this stage and will need to leave. But just focus on doing your best and engaging with people you meet.

If you make it through to the interviews, you’ll have one with an associate and another with a partner. I wasn’t asked any commercial questions in these, but I found that some of the motivational questions gave me an opportunity to weave in my commercial awareness (where relevant). If you can, it’s definitely worth preparing for competency-based and motivational questions in advance. I also received quite a few curveball questions (e.g. “If you were a fruit, what fruit would you be?”). If you get one of these, don't panic. Just think of these as an opportunity to demonstrate your ability to think on your feet and give a sense of your personality.

Hope this helps! And good luck with the AC!

 

[Chris Brown]

Hiya @James Wakefield

The Cooley assessment centre was quite a full-on day when I did it, and if the structure remains the same, you can expect a packed schedule. This schedule included (1) a group exercise; (2) lunch and chats with people at the firm; and (3) two separate interviews, one with an associate and another with a partner.

In my cycle, the morning involved a group exercise. We were expected to successfully pass this stage to proceed to the interviews in the afternoon. The group exercise had a strong commercial focus, so it’s worth taking some time to think about the kinds of issues that often arise in commercial exercises involving investment decisions, M&A considerations, and other types of similar business challenges. Beyond commercial awareness, the usual group exercise rules apply - try to show your ability to work effectively with others. There’s also a presentation element, where clarity, a client-focused approach, and time management all play a big role. There weren’t any written exercises when I did it, so I don't think you'll have to worry about that here.

Between the group exercise and the interviews, you'll have lunch and a chance to chat with trainees, associates, and the wonderful training principal, Claire Temple. This is a great opportunity to ask any questions you genuinely have about the firm, but also to get to know people in a more informal, relaxed setting. You might feel a bit nervous during this time, since some candidates will be unsuccessful at this stage and will need to leave. But just focus on doing your best and engaging with people you meet.

If you make it through to the interviews, you’ll have one with an associate and another with a partner. I wasn’t asked any commercial questions in these, but I found that some of the motivational questions gave me an opportunity to weave in my commercial awareness (where relevant). If you can, it’s definitely worth preparing for competency-based and motivational questions in advance. I also received quite a few curveball questions (e.g. “If you were a fruit, what fruit would you be?”). If you get one of these, don't panic. Just think of these as an opportunity to demonstrate your ability to think on your feet and give a sense of your personality.

Hope this helps! And good luck with the AC!

“If you were a fruit, what fruit would you be?” is a crazy question what the hell. 😂😂

I didn’t realise these kinds of questions would be asked in interviews. It looks like I need to spend some time on figuring out which fruit I want to be. I’m thinking maybe an apple. 🍏​

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

“If you were a fruit, what fruit would you be?” is a crazy question what the hell. 😭😭​

"A grape, because I'd want to be part of a bunch"

 

[BBsharkk]

I really don’t understand firms who leave you as though you never applied!! I applied to GD 1st Sept- the day they opened and did their first year insight scheme!! I haven’t heard anything and emailed them and they responded two weeks ago saying they are still looking at applications which is lowkey insulting because I’ve seen people get VS offers on LinkedIn!!! Sorry for the rant lol

I know many here would probably disagree, but my experience for the past 2 cycles so far tells me that this is very much a US firm thing.
And now thinking about it it kinda makes sense as well: many of these firms offer the highest salaries in the City; combine this with their very successful advertising for the past few years and a waning economy, these US firms are receiving more and more applications every year. However, their grad recruitment teams only have around 2-5 members which means it doesn't take deep analysis to know that it's almost logistically impossible to read through every single application, at least not to the exact same level of scrutiny anyway.

 

[Amma Usman]

Does anyone have any advice for written exercise prep? I just had a feedback call post an AC that I was rejected from and they said I lost the offer in the written exercise, so I really wanna work on that aspect for any future ACs

Hey,

I struggled with them too, but when I started paying close attention to the below, my responses got better. I’ve also included some more general prep tips. These are some of the feedback I got from firms during the process;

• Use of proper formalities. Who are you addressing? Have you used proper signatories? Good sign offs? Tone matters too based on the recipient.
• If a client, you don’t need to define basic things they know about their industry such as ESG, ROI, or similar stuff, for example.
• Look at the questions you are being asked first, before reading all the necessary materials. This ensures time maximisation. You focus mainly on what you need to address for that particular task. Be careful here, because some things overlap and may thus be useful. But, keeping this in mind certainly helps.
• Spelling mistakes - probably obvious, but certainly helps checking.
• Headings - helps make your work easier to read.
• Resources - there are freely available written exercises online, which helped me. TCLA’s written exercises also really did (I promise I’m not being biased haha) !

Best of luck, I know you will do great!

 

[yasmars]

Hiya @James Wakefield

The Cooley assessment centre was quite a full-on day when I did it, and if the structure remains the same, you can expect a packed schedule. This schedule included (1) a group exercise; (2) lunch and chats with people at the firm; and (3) two separate interviews, one with an associate and another with a partner.

In my cycle, the morning involved a group exercise. We were expected to successfully pass this stage to proceed to the interviews in the afternoon. The group exercise had a strong commercial focus, so it’s worth taking some time to think about the kinds of issues that often arise in commercial exercises involving investment decisions, M&A considerations, and other types of similar business challenges. Beyond commercial awareness, the usual group exercise rules apply - try to show your ability to work effectively with others. There’s also a presentation element, where clarity, a client-focused approach, and time management all play a big role. There weren’t any written exercises when I did it, so I don't think you'll have to worry about that here.

Between the group exercise and the interviews, you'll have lunch and a chance to chat with trainees, associates, and the wonderful training principal, Claire Temple. This is a great opportunity to ask any questions you genuinely have about the firm, but also to get to know people in a more informal, relaxed setting. You might feel a bit nervous during this time, since some candidates will be unsuccessful at this stage and will need to leave. But just focus on doing your best and engaging with people you meet.

If you make it through to the interviews, you’ll have one with an associate and another with a partner. I wasn’t asked any commercial questions in these, but I found that some of the motivational questions gave me an opportunity to weave in my commercial awareness (where relevant). If you can, it’s definitely worth preparing for competency-based and motivational questions in advance. I also received quite a few curveball questions (e.g. “If you were a fruit, what fruit would you be?”). If you get one of these, don't panic. Just think of these as an opportunity to demonstrate your ability to think on your feet and give a sense of your personality.

Hope this helps! And good luck with the AC!

How awkward is that having to leave an AC half way through due to being unsuccessful

 

[James Wakefield]

How awkward is that having to leave an AC half way through due to being unsuccessful

I guess the good side is it reminds you why you’re there. I find you’re sometimes lured into a false sense of calmness/security at ACs when you actually need to be on your best game all the time.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

How awkward is that having to leave an AC half way through due to being unsuccessful

It’s really not that awkward. I think the firm handles it very tactfully. I only mention it because it’s easy to let the possibility of not getting through to weigh on you during your lunch chats, but I’d really encourage you to make the most of that part of the day. For anyone doing the assessment centre, try to stay present and enjoy the conversations

 

[Amma Usman]

“If you were a fruit, what fruit would you be?” is a crazy question what the hell. 😂😂

I didn’t realise these kinds of questions would be asked in interviews. It looks like I need to spend some time on figuring out which fruit I want to be. I’m thinking maybe an apple. 🍏​

This actually made me burst out laughing on the train haha! Well I guess you could always name any fruit and link that to how they could make so many different kinds of food/drink, and hence….versatility….which is a key trainee competency 🤣

 

[👩🎓]

Evening all, does anyone have any top tips on how to perform well during virtual interviews or how to prepare for them?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Amma Usman]

@Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman @Andrei Radu Received a VS offer! Any advice on what to do prior to this to prep for the VS?

This is amazing news, congratulations! I’ve included some tips below;

• Speak with members of the firm, including future trainees, trainees, lawyers, etc, to get to know more about the firm and their experiences.
• Schedule coffee chats with people working in departments you’d like to learn more about.
• Ask thoughtful questions. Growing up, we always heard “there’s no such thing as a silly question”. The truth is, some questions can be answered by oneself through a quick research on the firm’s website/other sources. Ask questions you wouldn’t otherwise get yourself, as you now have the opportunity to be surrounded by the lawyers working on these deals.
• Learn more about the wider industry and how the practice area you’re working in fits within it. Ask any resultant questions that pop up. Similarly, you may also want to know and ask how the work you are doing as an intern fits within it.
• Above all, just be yourself and enjoy the process, because firms want to hire people at the end of the day. They already saw potential in you to get to that stage, so make the most of the learning opportunity, and you’’ll be fine.

Best of luck, I know you’ll do great!