CC Ignite TC Application Questions

Hi everyone,

I was wondering whether anyone could advise whether I need to talk to graduate recruitment about this.

The questions on the online application system are:

In no more than 250 words, what are your motivations for applying to Clifford Chance? You may wish to include any relevant prior experience with creating, implementing, or designing technology to solve client problems or further a business' aims.

In no more than 300 words, please tell us how the skills and attributes you have developed to date will help you excel as a Clifford Chance IGNITE Trainee. More specifically, please explain why you wish to be considered for the IGNITE Training Contract, rather than a traditional Training Contract.

However, the parts in bold, I believe, are more suited to the other question and should be swapped around to make more sense. Does anyone else agree?

Please let me know I'm not going crazy!!!

Thanks

PGDL or MSc in Environmental Policy?

Hello everyone,

I am a 24 year old journalist who primarily covers climate change and energy policy, and have been considering converting to environmental law having written extensively about the expanding area of climate litigation. However, I have been told that unless I can work for an organisation such as ClientEarth which focuses specifically on these issues, there are very few jobs which involve litigating against the fossil fuel industry, meaning that I would likely have to focus on emerging issues such as regulatory risk.

I have also been considering working for a think tank or NGO, focusing on environmental policy, but these jobs seem extremely rare and I am unsure that simply having an MSc in environmental policy will open many doors. Is it worth pursuing the PGDL if my interest lies more in the policy area, or should I pursue it anyway to keep my options open?

Would appreciate any feedback, thanks!

Feeling discouraged

I have been struggling with the application process recently; lots of rejections have led to me not feeling good enough. I would appreciate any advice regarding if I do actually have a chance of securing a TC.


My background:

1) Strong gcses and A-levels
2) 2.1 degree in a non-law subject, 61% average
3) Bits and pieces of work experience, including one VS that I failed to convert (but which I thoroughly enjoyed, and had pretty good feedback from)
4) Some extra-curricular activities, including some vaguely impressive sporting achievements


I am feeling a bit stuck. I have had so many rejections recently at application review stage, for applications that I was 100% happy with upon sending. I do not know if it is my grades, or if it is something else. In interviews last year, I had some great feedback, but I ultimately did not get the VS (one firm’s grad rec even said that she did not know why I had been rejected, given the feedback that she had been given from the partners).

I am worried that it is going to be impossible for me to get a TC. Any advice would be really appreciated. I do not know whether to keep pushing, or to give up and find another career path. I am a fairly resilient person, however, I do not want to waste years of my life chipping away at something that is actually impossible for me.

Thank you in advance.

Post-GDL work experience in the UK as an international (non-EU) student (paralegal/legal assistant)

Hi,

I am an international student with a bachelor's in politics (3.5 GPA unfortunately) and later obtained a Distinction from a Russel group university for a masters (IR). I have been working for a year at the Tax Revenue Service in my home country, and seriously thinking of a career change. Starting from January, I will be doing the GDL at University of Law in London (online). I don't have any legal experience (looking at being a solicitor in the future). My questions are:

  1. What would the timeline be like for someone doing the GDL and looking for vacation schemes, paralegal roles and TCs? Assuming I start my GDL in January, does that mean I will have to immediately start applying to both winter/spring/summer vacation schemes and TCs? Even if I do get TC offers they are usually offered two years in advance, right? Does that mean I will have to wait two years before starting my TC? Maybe do the LPC and some paralegal work during that time?
  2. Is it a good idea to do the LPC before doing some paralegal work and starting my TC?
Any suggestions or comments are more than welcome. Thank you!!

Firms that sponsor visas for international trainees?

Hi all,

I was wondering if there's a list of firms that are wiling to sponsor/take on international trainees? If not, could we start one in this thread with former/current international trainees putting down their firms?

I am aware that the HO publishes a list of companies/firms that have a license to sponsor foreign workers, however from speaking to recruiters, many of these firms are still reluctant to sponsor trainees and only use their license to sponsor senior staff.

Many thanks in advance

A&O Winter Vac Scheme 2022

Just wondering if anyone has any experience they are happy to share regarding what happens on A&O’s vac schemes as I haven’t been able to find too much!!

I’m attending the Winter one, and would really appreciate any tips regarding:
- technical preparation beforehand
- the sort of tasks one might undertake during the week
- advice for completing assessed work
- whether there is an exit interview and if so, what was it like?

Thank you!

Warning: Never apply for Slater & Gordon

Just thought I'd give a small personal story because I want people to know it. I worked for a year and a half to pay for my law conversion course and worked very hard to complete it (as you will all know, it is a lot of work). I completed an MA in law so that I could write a dissertation in medical law which I thought would give me a head start, at least to getting a paralegal job. After almost a year of applying and having no responses, with HR departments not even bothering to acknowledge my application, someone I know forwarded my CV to someone they knew at Slater and Gordon and they gave me two interviews, one as a legal assistant and the other as a paralegal. They offered me the legal assistant role and asked me whether I would like to wait to hear about the paralegal role, to which I said I would wait. I had to chase them for an answer and a week later they got back to me saying they were taking both offers off the table, the justification being that I am "overqualified and would leave the legal assistant job the second something better came along". The paralegal job they didn't give me because they "weren't convinced I wanted to work in personal injury as opposed to clinical negligence and I lived too far away", even though they explicitly said distance was not a concern of theirs before agreeing to interview me.

They had no constructive criticism for me at all, they said that I was an excellent candidate and this wasn't even really a rejection. They essentially promised me that any job which came up they would give me straight away and indeed one came up the next week. I chased them for the job, hoping they could advance me to the interview stage. However, I was met with an obstinate "you need to go through the conventional channels and we'll make a note of your application putting it to the front of the queue". I filled in their application form, something which was very time consuming and frustrating (since they certainly didn't ask me to do so the first time around and yet still offered me a job). I chased them and they insisted I wait until the expiry date finish before expecting an answer. After the expiry date passed (about a month and a half later) I had to email them to ask whether there had been any update on my application. After pushing I received a note from a member of their HR department with a generic rejection email (one they didn't even have the courtesy to send me prior to my asking) where, to add insult to injury, they got my name wrong. I emailed back, politely explaining my situation, the fact that I'd been offered a job and promised an interview should another position come up (one of several I'd sent before) and was met with radio silence.

I've now given up on law because I do not believe the return on investment is there anymore. I am at the point where I am not going to fill in 100+ application forms for a paralegal role which pays under 25k. It is unbelievable that a law firm who advertise themselves as fighting for the underdog in employment cases treat applicants in this manner. I'm disgusted with Slater & Gordon and hope this puts at least one person off ever applying for or using them since I wouldn't want anyone to go through the same.

Should I be using Linkedin more? (Law student)

I am a second-year law student and currently making applications to law firms. I have noticed that a lot of students in my year are always posting on Linkedin after events (even open days), tagging recruiters and summarising the events.

I don't really like the app and personally find it sooooo cringey exaggerating about every little thing. But, I also want to do whatever is necessary in order to increase my chances post-university (i.e. TCs and other employment opportunities). So, should I do what everyone else seems to be doing? Will it have a positive or negative effect?

Firms with no minimum alevel requirements

a list of leading law firms that apparently do not have minimum A-Level requirements:
Ashurt
arnold& porter
Baker mckenzie
BCLP
Clifford Chance
Freshfields
HSF
Macfarlanes
Womble
Gowling
PwC
Reed Smith
Browne Jacobson
Bird & Bird
Skadden
Sullivan & Cromwell
Milbank
Akin Gump
Davis Polk & Wardwell
Hope this is useful. Can people comment which firms that dont look/care about alevels

Akin Gump Open Day Nov 2022

Akin Gump Open Day Overview
I had such a good day at this event yesterday! It really helped me understand the work that lawyers do in more detail and it challenged my perceptions of the firm a lot. It was also the first open day that the firm has ever run in their London office and we were inundated with branded stationary to take home, and incredible food. I realise this is not the main purpose of open days, but it was certainly a neat addition.

Deal Anatomy
The firm took us through two recent deals that they had been part of and told us in detail how the different teams interacted and what specific work was done at each point of the deal. They asked us not to share specific details about the deals, so I'll just share a few interesting points I picked up on:

  • At Akin Gump, trainees largely take responsibility for due diligence. They need to check for any potential liabilities, inconsistencies, or any other areas for concern. I realise this is why so many firms look for potential recruits with strong attention to detail. There will be hundreds and potentially thousands of documents in the virtual data room that need to be examined. This is done systematically, generally with a specific focus (e.g. documents relating to real estate), and these documents are then looked through with a fine-tooth comb.
  • In corporate M&A, employment teams look through and draft service contracts. These can include non-compete clauses, or clauses that prevent staff from leaving immediately after an acquisition.
  • Some companies require many restructurings. After a company has been restructured, it is up to management to ensure the success of the business and law firms have very little to do with this. Unfortunately (or I suppose fortunately from the perspective that it generates work for law firms), one law firm could restructure the same company three times.
  • Tax teams can be very involved in financial restructurings to ensure that the restructuring is done in the most tax efficient way possible.

My (Changing) View of the Firm
As well as understanding the anatomy of a deal better, I really learnt a lot about Akin Gump. My expectations were that it would be an office with an intense and overworked atmosphere with people who loudly displayed their intelligence. Instead, I was struck by the absolute calm in the office. Following the panels of trainees and senior lawyers, I realised that this was a place where nobody had anything to prove, and were instead quietly confident about the quality of their work. There was a larger focus on retaining their loyal clients rather than searching for new clients (although the latter of course makes up part of the work they carry out). There was also an aim to expand on areas ancilliary to the work they already do, rather than opening up brand new practice areas. They have had a slow, but steady growth in London over the years. There was clear commeraderie between all employees from all levels. It made me realise that this firm has formiddable teams that work excellently together and lets their work speak for itself.

Diversity
Their focus on teamwork and supporting each other was also clear from their talk on diversity networks. I am very used to law firms sharing the awards they have won for their initiatives, or spending ten minutes at the end of a presentation to briefly explain their initiatives. This presentation was completely different, however. They had the London chairs for each firm diversity network present (social mobility, abilities, out&allied, BAME, women, parents&caregivers). The respresentatives then explained the work they individually did as well as how they worked as a firm and with other diversity networks. They talked about the metrics they used to measure their success and their personal stories. To me, this showed that they were really serious about improving diversity, equity and inclusion, and they weren't just paying lip service. This was also highlighted by the large budget Akin Gump gives each of the diversity initiatives. They also seek to involve their clients in these initiatives to help improve the diversity within their clients' companies too. I particularly enjoyed hearing about their pronoun training and social mobility initiative to get underprivileged Year 12 students to have the opportunity to spend time at the firm.

Small Trainee Intake and Lack of Formal Training
Whislt I was at the firm, I asked one of the trainees how he knew that he would thrive in a small trainee cohort with lots of responsibility. For me, high levels of responsibility sound great in theory, but in practice I don't know if I would find it too stressful. He gave me some really great things to think about:
  1. This particular trainee explained that he was very introverted. For him, standing out was harder to do in a big group (like the magic circle cohorts), and from his experience, these cohorts tended to have a lot more extroverted people in them. This is not something I had thought about before. I am also pretty introverted, so perhaps a smaller trainee cohort would also suit me better? I'm not sure, but it is definitely something I want to have a think about.
  2. For this trainee, he suggested that if you thrived at university when working in smaller groups with more of a focus on individuals, you may find a smaller trainee cohort better. I found this point very interesting because firstly, I did prefer smaller groups at university, and secondly, I hadn't considered the more individualised experience you could get in a smaller trainee cohort. My thoughts had been that more formal training in a larger group sets you up better to understand the work you are doing. For me, structure = proper training. After this conversation, however, I suppose larger groups with structured training are like big classrooms at school, whereas smaller cohorts with a lack of formal training are like 1:1 mentoring.
  3. The trainee explained that, yes, you might mess up with work being handed directly to a client. Despite this, surely it's better to mess up as a trainee than it would be to mess up as a more senior lawyer?
Overall, this left me a lot to think about. I also think that this particular trainee's experience of a small cohort may not reflect the experience of trainees in small cohorts at other firms. Here, there seemed to be a lot of support, but I have seen other firms where trainees are left up to their own devices more. I still think I am more comfortable with formal training, however, I think I would enjoy the training at Akin Gump due to their specific approach. I guess I need to delve into the specific approach of each firm with a small cohort that I am considering applying to.

Quick Note on Application Process
  1. This starts with several questions on an application form dedicated to understanding your written skill. Each question requires 250 words. There is a commercial question at the end, but graduate recruitment does not screen this question at this stage. Akin Gump usually receives around 500 applications each year.
  2. Successful applicants then get sent a Watson Glaser Test. There is a pass benchmark which graduate recruitment could not quantify, but said that it was a 'fair' benchmark.
  3. If you pass the Watson Glaser, you move onto a Telephone Interview. This is largely there to expand on answers in the original written application and ask any questions. This will be conducted by graduate recruitment. This is a new stage of the application process.
  4. Following a successful Telephone Interview, the commercial question you wrote in your original application will be assessed by lawyers at Akin Gump.
  5. A successful commercial question will lead to an Assessment Centre including case studies, a group exercise, and interviews with partners and graduate recruitment. This is a new stage of the application process.
  6. A successful assessment centre leads to a vacation scheme. Akin Gump usually invites around 12 people to this stage.
  7. Following a successful vacation scheme, around 8 lucky people will be offered a training contract.

Overall Thoughts
I wasn't sure about Akin Gump before this open day, which was one of the reasons I applied to attend. Following the open day, I will definitely be applying to this firm. I was genuinely overawed at their understated excellence and genuine sense of commeradarie. They are nothing at all as I had imagined, and in this instance, I don't think it matters that the firm does not fulfill all of the criteria I set out for myself (i.e. formal training), because it seems that they support trainees in an equally valuable way. This also shows me the importance of open days and actually being able to attend in-person office events!

Travers Smith - Winter vac scheme

Has anyone heard back from the Travers Smith winter vac scheme 2022? I applied on the deadline which was mid October and haven't heard anything. I've emailed Grad recruitment twice and both times they said will be in the next couple of weeks (first of which was now 3 and half weeks ago). I'm a little concerned as the first winter scheme starts on 5th Dec which is quickly approaching, so not feeling hopeful. Anyone else yet to hear?

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We Are Four Trainees at Shearman & Sterling LLP. Ask Us Anything!

Hi All,

I’m delighted to introduce four trainees at Shearman & Sterling LLP who will be running this Ask me Anything thread from today until Friday 18 November 2022.

A big welcome to @lucyfoulkes, @NatashaRarity, @matthewadesina and @Zara.Khanche to the TCLA forums. We are really glad to have you here.


How does it work?​

We know that not everyone is lucky enough to have connections in the legal space. The purpose of this thread is to give you the chance to ask any questions you have to those who have been through the process and have begun their training contract.

Simply post any questions you have in this thread.

The trainees will be responding at their convenience over the course of the week, so don’t worry if you don’t hear back straight away. Please see below to learn more about the trainees and the types of areas they can help with, ranging from standing out in your applications to commercial awareness and working in the finance department.


Open Day & Vacation Scheme​

Finally, a big thank you to @Paul - Shearman & Sterling for helping to put this all together. For those of you who are interested in applying to Shearman & Sterling LLP, please note that applications to the open day close this Sunday 20 November 2022, while applications to the Spring and Summer vacation scheme close on 15 January 2023.

Apply to the Open Day

Apply to the Vacation Scheme

Repeatedly rejected by the same firm - how to fix?

I am interested in White & Case and I made a first year scheme application last year. I submitted an open day application this year (in my second year). I have been rejected both times. I am a law student and trying to figure out what's not quite right in my applications. The hardest thing about these rejections is not knowing whether it is worth continuing to make future applications to the firm because without any feedback, I am not sure what's not working at the moment. Whether the issue is fixable or not basically.

I was hoping to apply for a vacation scheme with the firm, but at this point I don't know if it is worth the attempt.

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you! ☺😊

Open day: quick question on note-taking etiquette

As the title says, I've confirmed attendance to a few open days in November. Two of these are full-day events. As I am intending to take notes, is it expected or more appropriate to take physical notes (i.e., with a notepad and pen) rather than transcribing notes from a laptop?

Personally, I prefer digital notes as I can access and add on to my existing archive of firm notes from my phone or laptop - but I realise that it might not come off as natural during an in-person event.

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks :)