TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2022-23

[WindowsUpdate]

yep...

which is why not even making it to TI is confusuing. TI is basically just an extension of the application. How does one satisfy their requirements to attend 2 events with them (which they even reimbursed me for, so they literally wasted money on me), but somehow that doesnt transalte into at least a TI invite?

alas, one must go on. fml

I definitely understand and relate to the frustration, mainly because of the confusion all of this creates. It's not at all being entitled, so I get that.

In a similar position, I've pretty much attended every single one of their events + Insight evening + independent networking etc. Again, this is to say I'd like to think I have decent amount of info and tips for a solid application, not "I deserve to be invited for a TI". So for me, and many others, the question comes down to the "scoring" and selection process.

 

[spamelinazoid]

I definitely understand and relate to the frustration, mainly because of the confusion all of this creates. It's not at all being entitled, so I get that.

In a similar position, I've pretty much attended every single one of their events + Insight evening + independent networking etc. Again, this is to say I'd like to think I have decent amount of info and tips for a solid application, not "I deserve to be invited for a TI". So for me, and many others, the question comes down to the "scoring" and selection process.

yeah definitely

From the events and networking it seemed they were a pretty open-minded firm (many non-Oxbridge non-1st class grads) so for an American firm they seemed pretty open to anyone to apply. Oh well, may try again next year :')

 

[lik0401]

How long was everyone's Skadden TI? Not sure if mine was quite short!

bumping this haha, I'm quite intrigued and not sure if it perhaps a bad sign?

 

[HopefulFutureTrainee123]

I have been thinking about the application process in general. Given firms, in theory, have reasons to reject everyone who receives a rejection, would there be a way to ask firms to just ‘tick a box’ that gives the reason. eg. ‘work experience section’, or ‘question 2’, or ‘uni grades’. I know applications are generally considered holistically, but it feels like there must be a way to give feedback on applications, without making any more work for the law firm.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

I often wonder the same, I didn't get into the 1st insight evening and the reason was the same: "didn't score high enough", but the application was basic with just a short cover letter (and maybe undergrad academics, can't remember). Do they just give a subjective rating out of a 100 or something.
Even more confusing since I was invited to the 2nd evening after IF everything is objectively good with an application, I think some of it legit comes down to who reads it and in what mood they are in

It is a subjective process not an objective one, even with all the good will and infrastructure/policy to put things in place to make the process as consistent and fair as possible. That is the thing about it being all about individual human beings - you can’t make it objective.

As I said to someone in one of the 1-2-1 calls recently, applications are like an art. Yes, there are general rules about what constitutes good art, but that ultimately people’s preferences do play out as to how that art is interpreted.

And the difference between how an application can be compared to the next could be down to the equivalent of an individual brush stroke in a painting.

To complete this crappy analogy (I love an analogy, but I am spectacular at coming up with dodgy ones!) is that a recruiter is looking at 1,000-3,000 painting that are hard to distinguish from one another. From a distance, they will look fairly identical and it’s only when you look up close at the specific details that you see differences that make you think one is better than the other.

The problem with this conversation is we can only see the “art” from a distance and we don’t have sight of every piece submitted. Therefore we make assumptions as to why one has been chosen over the other. But the reality is it’s usually over something we don’t see from the distance we are viewing things from.

And it is that opaqueness that is frustrating, especially to groups of people whose characteristics are usually geared to trying to work things out/problem solve/get an answer.

 

[lik0401]

Does anyone have any tips for Willkie or Dechert for the Video Interview (VI)? I have never done one before and really don't know what to expect. (If you prefer, feel free to PM me). Thank you

 

[lawstudent0303]

Has anyone heard from a&o for their summer vac scheme recently?

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

yep...

which is why not even making it to TI is confusuing. TI is basically just an extension of the application. How does one satisfy their requirements to attend 2 events with them (which they even reimbursed me for, so they literally wasted money on me), but somehow that doesnt transalte into at least a TI invite?

alas, one must go on. fml

Recruitment for open days/insight programmes is a very different process. The firm won’t see it as a waste of money at all. In fact, it’s a much cheaper way to find the talent you want.

 

[WindowsUpdate]

That is interesting! I was invited to the 1st insight evening but had to do so upon badgering (ahem reminding) grad rec about my application. I genuinely thought everyone who applied was extended an invitation. But maybe that is me being a bit naive haha

the events were around 45-50 people, so quite limited and selective - the open day was around 100 from memory so maybe that was more 'everyone who applies gets in'

Yeah the Insight was limited spaces. Part of me is wondering if they just selected the "better" candidates for the 1st insight evening and I'm the left overs, especially after attending Without being rude, I'm sure they must've had good apps since they were invited, but some people didn't even seem to know what kind of work the firm does. This is more to say that I don't feel so special with all my research and invitation haha

But hey there's always next year!

 

[spamelinazoid]

Recruitment for open days/insight programmes is a very different process. The firm won’t see it as a waste of money at all. In fact, it’s a much cheaper way to find the talent you want.

does grad rec look at your insight/open day applications when you apply to a vac scheme/TC then? or do they judge us on the day?

from memory, the grad rec manager never even spoke to most people (me included) and we mostly networked with trainees

 

[futuretrainee202X]

Yeah the Insight was limited spaces. Part of me is wondering if they just selected the "better" candidates for the 1st insight evening and I'm the left overs, especially after attending Without being rude, I'm sure they must've had good apps since they were invited, but some people didn't even seem to know what kind of work the firm does. This is more to say that I don't feel so special with all my research and invitation haha

But hey there's always next year!

Ah well, it doesn't matter. I still received a PFO despite attending the 1st insight event. Whether or not we are applying again to Skadden next year, there are other firms we can focus our efforts on now best of luck!!

 

[Ghassen]

Guys ! I am asking please if anyone have an idea about the questions that could come up in a video assessment (Clyde & Co) ? Are they the same as a VI ? Because the assessment includes as well SJT part and Critical thinking part.

please any answer will help me !!
Thanks.

 

[Ghassen]

Guys ! I am asking please if anyone have an idea about the questions that could come up in a video assessment (Clyde & Co) ? Are they the same as a VI ? Because the assessment includes as well SJT part and Critical thinking part.

please any answer will help me !!
Thanks.

@Jessica Booker Maybe you can help me! Thanks.

 

[Highnumberofapplicants]

Anyone else's DLA portal got updated today?

Mine got updated last night! I wrote to them though and they said don’t follow the updates on the portal, we’ll send you an email if anything. Easier said than done

 

[Dib31]

Sullivan and Cromwell rejection but Skadden TI and Dechert VI!

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

does grad rec look at your insight/open day applications when you apply to a vac scheme/TC then? or do they judge us on the day?

from memory, the grad rec manager never even spoke to most people (me included) and we mostly networked with trainees

No - they won’t go back and look at your previous insight day application.

There is an element of being “judged” on the day, even if not formally. People make judgements on one another based on their interactions. There have been people whose applications I have been hoping to receive after they attended an event because they impressed me, and even in those situations, I have been very disappointed when their application wasn’t up to the standard I hoped for, and so I had to turn them down.

People’s opinions aren’t limited to the graduate recruitment manager. The other representatives may have emailed the GR team with their thoughts who came across well. Used to happen all the time with me even when I wasn’t heavily involved in events.

To be brutally frank about this, open days/insight programmes are a marketing tool as much of a recruitment tool for law firms. People talk about attending them with their network and that increases the firm’s profile/brand awareness. It can often be cheaper running an open day than attending a law fair.

In turn, candidates get something that builds out their CV, and their skill set and knowledge by attending. That personal development why they are valuable to attend. I wouldn’t see it as just about whether attending an open day improves your chances with that individual firm, they also improve your chances with other firms too because they improve you as a candidate.

 

[yasmars]

It is a subjective process not an objective one, even with all the good will and infrastructure/policy to put things in place to make the process as consistent and fair as possible. That is the thing about it being all about individual human beings - you can’t make it objective.

As I said to someone in one of the 1-2-1 calls recently, applications are like an art. Yes, there are general rules about what constitutes good art, but that ultimately people’s preferences do play out as to how that art is interpreted.

And the difference between how an application can be compared to the next could be down to the equivalent of an individual brush stroke in a painting.

To complete this crappy analogy (I love an analogy, but I am spectacular at coming up with dodgy ones!) is that a recruiter is looking at 1,000-3,000 painting that are hard to distinguish from one another. From a distance, they will look fairly identical and it’s only when you look up close at the specific details that you see differences that make you think one is better than the other.

The problem with this conversation is we can only see the “art” from a distance and we don’t have sight of every piece submitted. Therefore we make assumptions as to why one has been chosen over the other. But the reality is it’s usually over something we don’t see from the distance we are viewing things from.

And it is that opaqueness that is frustrating, especially to groups of people whose characteristics are usually geared to trying to work things out/problem solve/get an answer.

I really like this analogy

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

@Jessica Booker Maybe you can help me! Thanks.

I don’t know the specifics of the firm - sorry that I cannot help on this occasion.

 

[spamelinazoid]

No - they won’t go back and look at your previous insight day application.

There is an element of being “judged” on the day, even if not formally. People make judgements on one another based on their interactions. There have been people whose applications I have been hoping to receive after they attended an event because they impressed me, and even in those situations, I have been very disappointed when their application wasn’t up to the standard I hoped for, and so I had to turn them down.

People’s opinions aren’t limited to the graduate recruitment manager. The other representatives may have emailed the GR team with their thoughts who came across well. Used to happen all the time with me even when I wasn’t heavily involved in events.

To be brutally frank about this, open days/insight programmes are a marketing tool as much of a recruitment tool for law firms. People talk about attending them with their network and that increases the firm’s profile/brand awareness. It can often be cheaper running an open day than attending a law fair.

In turn, candidates get something that builds out their CV, and their skill set and knowledge by attending. That personal development why they are valuable to attend. I wouldn’t see it as just about whether attending an open day improves your chances with that individual firm, they also improve your chances with other firms too because they improve you as a candidate.

thank you for this insight, it's really useful to know!

 

[BM99]

Sullivan and Cromwell rejection but Skadden TI and Dechert VI!

Sorry to hear about the rejection. May I ask are you rejected after being on hold, and when did you apply? Congratulations on your other TI invites too!!!