TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2022-23

[mdoeslaw]

Can anyone provide some advice on the approximate speaking time during an AC when asked questions like Why the firm, Why commercial law? I'm afraid that I will be rambling on for too long

best tip would probably be to record yourself and see how long it takes you to talk about those qs, ik it can feel awkward but u get a sense of an idea of how long u're talking for, i think general rule of thumb would be if its jus the classic qs why law, why commercial law etc, 5 mins is too much thats when it becomes rambley, a good range would probably be between 2-4 mins depending on pace as well since we talk a lot faster when we're nervous?? thats jus my opinion, im trying to figure this out as well ahaha

 

[corplawperson23]

Has anyone ever been cut off mid sentence during a VI and still made it through to the next stage?

 

[corplawperson23]

can anyone confirm this?

You can't

 

[HopefulFutureTrainee123]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what is considered "common knowledge commercial awareness"? Thanks

 

[Alison C]

Hi everyone, please bear with me as I share my built-up frustration.


This is my 3rd cycle (or 4th if I add first-year activities). I graduated last summer from the University of Birmingham with a very low 2:1 and extreme burnout. In second year, I almost failed Tort and Land owing to worsening mental health. I applied for mitigating circumstances hoping to re-sit these core modules, but uni told me "You passed and that's enough. Work harder next year and if you're sufficiently close to a first, we'll grant you a first". Considering how firms are very picky about Tort in particular, I felt very frustrated but moved on. In final year, I scored a high first, 3 2:1s, and a couple of high 2:2s. Very inconsistent, I know. Before that, I confidently disclosed mitigating circumstances based on what happened in second year, but then I felt like I had to justify the final-year inconsistencies too (that's also what @Jessica Booker told me). This also barred me from pursuing an LLM at the London Elite (KCL, UCL, LSE). I was already fed up, if not traumatised by my Birmingham experience.

Without a TC offer lined up and nothing better to do, I traveled to Amsterdam to pursue an LLM that I never wanted to do. I was mostly pleasing my Middle Eastern family that wanted me to keep going all the way to a PhD. It was a disaster - academic culture shock, panic attacks, frustration and failing. I ended up dropping out half a semester into it, and for now, I'm waiting to be rescued by a TC offer, or else I'd do the SQE prep.

VS/TC Applications also have a major contribution to my current burnout and despair. In second year, my applications were reviewed through a mentoring scheme and I was told I'd be "the miracle of that cycle" considering how "great" my submissions were. None of the applications went through. I got rejections either post-app or after passing the tests, except for a Linklaters AC (Middle East though, so the curve was lower), but that didn't go through either. In final year, the furthest I went through was an AC waitlist at DWF, and a first-stage interview for the SH Dubai VS (they ghosted me for 6 weeks after that interview, only to reject me for the STUPIDEST reasons. They could've just said "you came third best after the 2 candidates we could accommodate").

I did everything possible to maximise my applications. Workshops? Done it. Networking? Done it, even secured 2 internships at international law firms in Qatar (one was W&C). Courses? Done it (Thanks @Jaysen for all your efforts). Open Days? Done it. I feel like I'd only be noticed if there aren't many applicants applying to that one firm at that one cycle. I don't know what else I could do at this point. I wish a partner could just salvage me and bypass all the draining recruitment processes. It's even more difficult for me because I'm an international student whose sponsorship would be an "expensive gamble". I have the 2-year graduate visa, but I found no luck in relevant paralegal positions either.

I've reached a point where I'm creatively crafting excuses. I started playing the "disability" card. At first, I was diagnosed with comorbid depression and anxiety. Another doctor confirmed I have borderline ADHD. Others told me I'm suffering from autistic burnout but I cannot seek a diagnosis because it would put me at a serious disadvantage back home (where insurers and employers have access to medical documents). Not even the "Guaranteed Interview" process helped me. I remember being rejected post-app by a firm I wouldn't publicly mention. According to them, the "minimum requirements" extends beyond academics to other extracurriculars (which I had TONS of). They didn't even entertain looking into my matter personally. It was a generic answer over the phone.

I'm in so much pain.

This is an insanely competitive process. There are many, many elements you can't control. However:
(1) you should absolutely be able to find work as a paralegal. You need to be consistent in approaching recruitment agencies and sending your CV on spec. Alternatively, you could get an entry-level role in a business you care about and just start to work, finding out about how the business operates, before moving sideways into something more legal. No undergraduate experiences really trump actual work in the workplace, as long as you are learning something, which you will!
(2) you can also get legal work experience as a volunteer. Remember, this is about quality, not quantity - and I'd say the same about the extracurriculars you indicate you have a lot of - and be sure you aren't taking on too much, given the pressure you feel.
(3) on the other hand, you can apply to more firms, and be deliberately scattergun. This is to some extent about quantity. You are young and inexperienced, and there may be a number more application cycles required. The sooner you realise this the sooner you will feel in control.
(4) are you absolutely sure you are barking up the right tree? Work should not make you sick. What about legal tech? What about an ancillary role in a law firm? Do you really feel the need to put yourself through this, NOW? Can it wait a few years until the SQE is more sorted and you have a lot more to bring to the table?
(5) watch your language. Disability is not a card to be played. It's a life-limiting condition and 'reasonable adjustments' are there to level the playing field so you can be seen for your merits. They are there because a legal framework was needed to protect the rights of people needing support to access equal opportunities. Anyone who has a disability recognises it is anything but a silver bullet. If the merits aren't those that align with what the firm is looking for, they still won't want to hire you.
(6) given your struggles, have you considered CiLEX and graduate apprenticeships? They might meet your needs better and there are many roads leading to Rome if Rome is still where you want to go (see (4) above).
(7) the family thing sounds challenging, but in the end, it is your life and some real self-examination in the mirror is going to be essential for you to motor through this rocky patch.
(8) you say you are 'waiting to be rescued'. The modern-day fairy tale doesn't work like this. You're frustrated not to be getting a TC but you aren't pursuing the sensible alternative, which you've identified as the SQE prep. Maybe you should think about whether law firms want to rescue applicants or whether they are looking for something else.

I'd suggest re-reading your post in the cold light of day tomorrow, critically, and seeing where you feel you CAN take positive action, to find a firm that fits. This will be something different from what you've done previously. It might involve different workshops, and different choices. The point is not attending the workshop, the point is moving yourself forward so you are a better candidate and ultimately a better human being and lawyer.

Bon courage!

 

[Seabird15]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what is considered "common knowledge commercial awareness"? Thanks

I could be wrong but my opinion is that this is referring to, for example, how business and the economy works as a whole, as well as major events that have happened during the economic lifecycle that has shaped things today (e.g. the GFC, Brexit, EFC)

 

[rosec]

You can't

ahh thank you!!

 

[hopefullyfuturetrainee]

Does anyone have any tips for the Freshfields VS interview?

 

[mdoeslaw]

does anybody have any last minute tips for a slaughters interview😥

 

[MB17]

This is an insanely competitive process. There are many, many elements you can't control. However:
(1) you should absolutely be able to find work as a paralegal. You need to be consistent in approaching recruitment agencies and sending your CV on spec. Alternatively, you could get an entry-level role in a business you care about and just start to work, finding out about how the business operates, before moving sideways into something more legal. No undergraduate experiences really trump actual work in the workplace, as long as you are learning something, which you will!
(2) you can also get legal work experience as a volunteer. Remember, this is about quality, not quantity - and I'd say the same about the extracurriculars you indicate you have a lot of - and be sure you aren't taking on too much, given the pressure you feel.
(3) on the other hand, you can apply to more firms, and be deliberately scattergun. This is to some extent about quantity. You are young and inexperienced, and there may be a number more application cycles required. The sooner you realise this the sooner you will feel in control.
(4) are you absolutely sure you are barking up the right tree? Work should not make you sick. What about legal tech? What about an ancillary role in a law firm? Do you really feel the need to put yourself through this, NOW? Can it wait a few years until the SQE is more sorted and you have a lot more to bring to the table?
(5) watch your language. Disability is not a card to be played. It's a life-limiting condition and 'reasonable adjustments' are there to level the playing field so you can be seen for your merits. They are there because a legal framework was needed to protect the rights of people needing support to access equal opportunities. Anyone who has a disability recognises it is anything but a silver bullet. If the merits aren't those that align with what the firm is looking for, they still won't want to hire you.
(6) given your struggles, have you considered CiLEX and graduate apprenticeships? They might meet your needs better and there are many roads leading to Rome if Rome is still where you want to go (see (4) above).
(7) the family thing sounds challenging, but in the end, it is your life and some real self-examination in the mirror is going to be essential for you to motor through this rocky patch.
(8) you say you are 'waiting to be rescued'. The modern-day fairy tale doesn't work like this. You're frustrated not to be getting a TC but you aren't pursuing the sensible alternative, which you've identified as the SQE prep. Maybe you should think about whether law firms want to rescue applicants or whether they are looking for something else.

I'd suggest re-reading your post in the cold light of day tomorrow, critically, and seeing where you feel you CAN take positive action, to find a firm that fits. This will be something different from what you've done previously. It might involve different workshops, and different choices. The point is not attending the workshop, the point is moving yourself forward so you are a better candidate and ultimately a better human being and lawyer.

Bon courage!

I appreciate you taking the time to post this reply. I’m a bit defensive below but anyways.

I haven’t talked extensively about the positive action that I’ve been taking, mainly because I’m in a state of frustration and the post was more emotional than it is rational.

In reply to point #5, when I said “card” I meant that it was a risk because I don’t know whether it would be viewed positively by recruiters. I have been finding it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to seek advice and support, or even a fair diagnosis.. mainly because I live in a largely uninformed society back home. I have no idea what reasonable adjustments there are and how helpful they could be in my case, mainly because there are no resources available to me. Simple as that.

About point #8, “waiting to be rescued” is a rather emotional statement. The alternative has always been on my mind and it sounds logical to me.

I’m very aware of the attitude that I should rationally maintain when applying, but please put yourself in my shoes for a moment.

 

[Alison C]

I appreciate you taking the time to post this reply. I’m a bit defensive below but anyways.

I haven’t talked extensively about the positive action that I’ve been taking, mainly because I’m in a state of frustration and the post was more emotional than it is rational.

In reply to point #5, when I said “card” I meant that it was a risk because I don’t know whether it would be viewed positively by recruiters. I have been finding it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to seek advice and support, or even a fair diagnosis.. mainly because I live in a largely uninformed society back home. I have no idea what reasonable adjustments there are and how helpful they could be in my case, mainly because there are no resources available to me. Simple as that.

About point #8, “waiting to be rescued” is a rather emotional statement. The alternative has always been on my mind and it sounds logical to me.

I’m very aware of the attitude that I should rationally maintain when applying, but please put yourself in my shoes for a moment.

What resources are you looking for? These may be a starter.

What is the Equality Act?

Learn about the Equality Act, including which areas it protects and whether it covers mental health problems.

www.mind.org.uk

10 Reasonable Adjustments for Employee Mental Health

Unsure where to start when it comes to reasonable adjustments for mental health? Use this guide from the experts at Champion Health for inspiration. Read now.

championhealth.co.uk

 

[NMA]

@Jessica Booker I had a TI where they asked me 'Why X firm' and 'why commercial law', are they expecting a completely revamped answer in the AC interview or can I just reuse it again? TI was with grad recruitment and no lawyers, but they said they'd pass on notes from the TI to the interviewing partners.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Has anyone ever been cut off mid sentence during a VI and still made it through to the next stage?

I have progressed plenty of people who have done that!

 

[patternteddybear]

any last minute tips for penningtons manches cooper assessment centre?

 

[Phoebe123451]

any last min tips for Dechert VI?

 

[henleyhawk]

last min tips for Osborne Clarke AC would be greatly appreciated

 

[t.loader]

Has anyone done the V&E VI?
Any advice helpful.

 

[hanz123]

For anyone that's completed Gateley's interactive assessment, can you message me

 

[F99]

Does anyone know if CC ACs are still taking place? I received an email in December saying they would let me know this week if there were any spaces left on an AC so was wondering if anyone knows where they are at with recruitment atm? Is anyone else in the same position and waiting to hear if they've got an AC this week? If so, feel free to message me!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Does anyone know if CC ACs are still taking place? I received an email in December saying they would let me know this week if there were any spaces left on an AC so was wondering if anyone knows where they are at with recruitment atm? Is anyone else in the same position and waiting to hear this week? If so, feel free to message me!

I think decisions are coming this week as heard this from someone who had their CC AC this month.