TCLA General Discussion Thread #2 (2021)

[S87]

Mainly AC/DC, The Who, some Motorhead, Black Sabbath, etc - heavier stuff isn't the sort of stuff I listen to when I'm working, though, pure road trip tunes.

Fleetwood Mac, Brandi Carlile (softer but amazing illuminating country songwriter and performer, her album "By the way I forgive you"..simply a masterpiece), Alabama Shakes, Foo Fighters, I also love Alanis Morisette (yes I have been lesbian since I was born and jagged little pill was my first album), the killers, Muse (pure art)

 

[thatwonder_woman]

Apologies in advance for the long essay but I have benefited from the transparency of so many of you on here so going to do the same :

This was my 4th application cycle + I attended a non-russell group uni + I am a Black woman so deffo heard my fair share of “the big City firms don’t recruit from non-Russell group unis so maybe don’t bother” (even from careers advisors at my uni) to “law isn’t a diverse industry so why not try another industry?”. It also didn’t help that these big firms didn’t attend law fairs at my uni and I didn’t see many people from my uni who joined these firms. So, confidence was something I really struggled with up until a year ago!


Finished uni 4 years ago after doing a master’s in human rights and thought that was what I wanted to do. Did work experience at a well known HR law firm in London and realised it wasn’t for me for a number of reasons but I would say that one of them was the fact that I couldn’t afford to do unpaid internships or low income internships at the time. I also realised there are other ways to get involved in human rights without practising as a lawyer in the field.

Decided to try commercial law and did a couple of applications in my first cycle and got through to ACs at HL and BCLP but got rejected oooppps. Feedback generally was “we thought you came across well + are clearly intelligent but your commercial awareness was poor” in hindsight I also realise that my motivations weren’t strong and I wasn’t really keen on those firms but applied mainly because they were well known

What followed was a series of rejections and not getting pass the application stage cycle after cycle after applying to firms for similar reasons or for the wrong reasons loool, until this cycle. I just wasn’t sure

I would say what changed for me this past year was doing my research and applying to firms that I genuinely was interested in for the right reasons rather than ones I thought “i should want to join”.

Honestly, I didn’t know private client work at a top firm was an option + that there were firms who specialised in the charities sector or media etc. until I thought about what I was genuinely interested in and went from there.

Changing my mindset + building my confidence especially via networking and positive affirmations (lool it works, I promise) + attending events and being enthusiastic/engaging + doing things that pushed me out of my comfort zone + doing the work/sharpening my interview technique + knowing my stuff and communicating that well with the right balance between confidence yet a willingness to learn + I would also admit that the maturity that comes with age has helped too with clarity on what I want + having some life experience from working!!!

With networking, not every convo or email led to something “big” but speaking with lawyers, from associates to partners, really helped build my confidence back (I remember sending my first message to a partner at one of the boutique media firms in London about a year ago and genuinely being so surprised that he not only responded but offered to speak with me on the phone ) you also realise they are just human just like you loool + being honest with myself about what i wanted out of my career and what I was interested in terms of practice areas and sectors so private client work, charities, media etc. at a firm with a strong commercial practice too. This meant that my applications were more convincing and I approached the entire process with more enthusiasm and confidence.

Anyway, I genuinely believe I got this right when I was meant to and I am really just grateful that I don’t have to do another application or psychometric test or assessment for a while or ever lool! The entire process is so exhausting omg

Sorry for the essay but happy to answer any questions

 

[Jaysen]

Apologies for the essay in advance but I have benefited from the transparency of so many of you on here so going to do the same:

This was my 4th cycle + I attended a non-russell group uni + I am a Black woman so deffo heard my fair share of “the big City firms don’t recruit from non-Russell group unis so maybe don’t bother” (even from careers advisors at my uni) to “law isn’t diverse so why not try another industry” + it didn’t help that these firms didn’t attend law fairs at my uni and I didn’t see many people from my uni who joined these firms. Confidence was something I really struggled with up until a year ago!


Finished uni 4 years ago after doing a master’s in human rights and thought that was what I wanted to do. Did work experience at a well known HR law firm in London and realised it wasn’t for me for a number of reasons but I would say that one of them was the fact that I couldn’t afford to do unpaid internships or low income internships at the time. I also realised there are other ways to get involved in human rights without practising as a lawyer in the field.
Did a couple of applications in my first cycle and got through to ACs at HL and BCLP but got rejected. Feedback was “we thought you came across well + are clearly intelligent but your commercial awareness was poor” in hindsight I also realise that my motivations weren’t strong and I wasn’t really keen on those firms but applied mainly because they were well known What followed was a series of rejections and not getting pass the application stage cycle after cycle after applying to firms for similar reasons until this cycle. I just wasn’t sure

I would say what changed for me this past year was doing my research and applying to firms that i genuinely was interested in for the right reasons rather than ones i thought “i should want to join”. Honestly, I didn’t know private client work at a top firm was an option + that there were firms who specialised in the charities sector or media etc. until i thought about what I was genuinely interested in and went from there.

Changing my mindset + building my confidence especially via networking and positive affirmations (lool it works, i promise) + doing things that pushed me out of my comfort zone + doing the work/sharpening my interview technique + being enthusiastic + knowing my stuff and communicating that well + i would also the maturity that comes with age has helped too + having gotten some life experience from working!!!

With networking, not every convo or email led to something “big” but speaking with lawyers, from associates to partners really helped build my confidence back (i remember sending my first message to a partner at one of the boutique media firms in London and genuinely being so surprised that he not only responded but offered to speak with me on the phone ) you also realise they are just human just like you loool + being honest with myself about what i wanted out of my career and what I was interested in terms of practice areas and sectors so private client work, charities, media etc. at a firm with a strong commercial practice too. This meant that my applications were more convincing and I approached the entire process with more enthusiasm.

Anyway, I genuinely believe I got this right when I was meant to and I am really just grateful that I don’t have to do another application or psychometric test or assessment for a while or ever lool! The entire process is so exhausting omg

Sorry for the essay but happy to answer any questions

Love the transparency - thank you so much for sharing, and well done!

 

[Kablahc]

Apologies for the essay in advance but I have benefited from the transparency of so many of you on here so going to do the same:

This was my 4th cycle + I attended a non-russell group uni + I am a Black woman so deffo heard my fair share of “the big City firms don’t recruit from non-Russell group unis so maybe don’t bother” (even from careers advisors at my uni) to “law isn’t diverse so why not try another industry” + it didn’t help that these firms didn’t attend law fairs at my uni and I didn’t see many people from my uni who joined these firms. Confidence was something I really struggled with up until a year ago!


Finished uni 4 years ago after doing a master’s in human rights and thought that was what I wanted to do. Did work experience at a well known HR law firm in London and realised it wasn’t for me for a number of reasons but I would say that one of them was the fact that I couldn’t afford to do unpaid internships or low income internships at the time. I also realised there are other ways to get involved in human rights without practising as a lawyer in the field.
Did a couple of applications in my first cycle and got through to ACs at HL and BCLP but got rejected. Feedback was “we thought you came across well + are clearly intelligent but your commercial awareness was poor” in hindsight I also realise that my motivations weren’t strong and I wasn’t really keen on those firms but applied mainly because they were well known What followed was a series of rejections and not getting pass the application stage cycle after cycle after applying to firms for similar reasons until this cycle. I just wasn’t sure

I would say what changed for me this past year was doing my research and applying to firms that i genuinely was interested in for the right reasons rather than ones i thought “i should want to join”. Honestly, I didn’t know private client work at a top firm was an option + that there were firms who specialised in the charities sector or media etc. until i thought about what I was genuinely interested in and went from there.

Changing my mindset + building my confidence especially via networking and positive affirmations (lool it works, i promise) + doing things that pushed me out of my comfort zone + doing the work/sharpening my interview technique + being enthusiastic + knowing my stuff and communicating that well + i would also the maturity that comes with age has helped too + having gotten some life experience from working!!!

With networking, not every convo or email led to something “big” but speaking with lawyers, from associates to partners really helped build my confidence back (i remember sending my first message to a partner at one of the boutique media firms in London and genuinely being so surprised that he not only responded but offered to speak with me on the phone ) you also realise they are just human just like you loool + being honest with myself about what i wanted out of my career and what I was interested in terms of practice areas and sectors so private client work, charities, media etc. at a firm with a strong commercial practice too. This meant that my applications were more convincing and I approached the entire process with more enthusiasm.

Anyway, I genuinely believe I got this right when I was meant to and I am really just grateful that I don’t have to do another application or psychometric test or assessment for a while or ever lool! The entire process is so exhausting omg

Sorry for the essay but happy to answer any questions

THIS. IS. AMAZING. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!! You better be celebrating!!!!!!!!

 

[YFA]

Apologies for the essay in advance but I have benefited from the transparency of so many of you on here so going to do the same:

This was my 4th cycle + I attended a non-russell group uni + I am a Black woman so deffo heard my fair share of “the big City firms don’t recruit from non-Russell group unis so maybe don’t bother” (even from careers advisors at my uni) to “law isn’t diverse so why not try another industry” + it didn’t help that these firms didn’t attend law fairs at my uni and I didn’t see many people from my uni who joined these firms. Confidence was something I really struggled with up until a year ago!

Love this so much! Congratulations - enjoy all the celebrations!!

 

[Law2022]

Apologies for the essay in advance but I have benefited from the transparency of so many of you on here so going to do the same:

This was my 4th cycle + I attended a non-russell group uni + I am a Black woman so deffo heard my fair share of “the big City firms don’t recruit from non-Russell group unis so maybe don’t bother” (even from careers advisors at my uni) to “law isn’t diverse so why not try another industry” + it didn’t help that these firms didn’t attend law fairs at my uni and I didn’t see many people from my uni who joined these firms. Confidence was something I really struggled with up until a year ago!


Finished uni 4 years ago after doing a master’s in human rights and thought that was what I wanted to do. Did work experience at a well known HR law firm in London and realised it wasn’t for me for a number of reasons but I would say that one of them was the fact that I couldn’t afford to do unpaid internships or low income internships at the time. I also realised there are other ways to get involved in human rights without practising as a lawyer in the field.
Did a couple of applications in my first cycle and got through to ACs at HL and BCLP but got rejected. Feedback was “we thought you came across well + are clearly intelligent but your commercial awareness was poor” in hindsight I also realise that my motivations weren’t strong and I wasn’t really keen on those firms but applied mainly because they were well known What followed was a series of rejections and not getting pass the application stage cycle after cycle after applying to firms for similar reasons until this cycle. I just wasn’t sure

I would say what changed for me this past year was doing my research and applying to firms that i genuinely was interested in for the right reasons rather than ones i thought “i should want to join”. Honestly, I didn’t know private client work at a top firm was an option + that there were firms who specialised in the charities sector or media etc. until i thought about what I was genuinely interested in and went from there.

Changing my mindset + building my confidence especially via networking and positive affirmations (lool it works, i promise) + doing things that pushed me out of my comfort zone + doing the work/sharpening my interview technique + being enthusiastic + knowing my stuff and communicating that well + i would also the maturity that comes with age has helped too + having gotten some life experience from working!!!

With networking, not every convo or email led to something “big” but speaking with lawyers, from associates to partners really helped build my confidence back (i remember sending my first message to a partner at one of the boutique media firms in London and genuinely being so surprised that he not only responded but offered to speak with me on the phone ) you also realise they are just human just like you loool + being honest with myself about what i wanted out of my career and what I was interested in terms of practice areas and sectors so private client work, charities, media etc. at a firm with a strong commercial practice too. This meant that my applications were more convincing and I approached the entire process with more enthusiasm.

Anyway, I genuinely believe I got this right when I was meant to and I am really just grateful that I don’t have to do another application or psychometric test or assessment for a while or ever lool! The entire process is so exhausting omg

Sorry for the essay but happy to answer any questions

What a queen Congrats

 

[BoulderCO]

@thatwonder_woman Even as someone that doesn't know you, so proud of your journey!

 

[Daniel Boden]

Apologies for the essay in advance but I have benefited from the transparency of so many of you on here so going to do the same:

This was my 4th cycle + I attended a non-russell group uni + I am a Black woman so deffo heard my fair share of “the big City firms don’t recruit from non-Russell group unis so maybe don’t bother” (even from careers advisors at my uni) to “law isn’t diverse so why not try another industry” + it didn’t help that these firms didn’t attend law fairs at my uni and I didn’t see many people from my uni who joined these firms. Confidence was something I really struggled with up until a year ago!


Finished uni 4 years ago after doing a master’s in human rights and thought that was what I wanted to do. Did work experience at a well known HR law firm in London and realised it wasn’t for me for a number of reasons but I would say that one of them was the fact that I couldn’t afford to do unpaid internships or low income internships at the time. I also realised there are other ways to get involved in human rights without practising as a lawyer in the field.
Did a couple of applications in my first cycle and got through to ACs at HL and BCLP but got rejected. Feedback was “we thought you came across well + are clearly intelligent but your commercial awareness was poor” in hindsight I also realise that my motivations weren’t strong and I wasn’t really keen on those firms but applied mainly because they were well known What followed was a series of rejections and not getting pass the application stage cycle after cycle after applying to firms for similar reasons until this cycle. I just wasn’t sure

I would say what changed for me this past year was doing my research and applying to firms that i genuinely was interested in for the right reasons rather than ones i thought “i should want to join”. Honestly, I didn’t know private client work at a top firm was an option + that there were firms who specialised in the charities sector or media etc. until i thought about what I was genuinely interested in and went from there.

Changing my mindset + building my confidence especially via networking and positive affirmations (lool it works, i promise) + doing things that pushed me out of my comfort zone + doing the work/sharpening my interview technique + being enthusiastic + knowing my stuff and communicating that well + i would also the maturity that comes with age has helped too + having gotten some life experience from working!!!

With networking, not every convo or email led to something “big” but speaking with lawyers, from associates to partners really helped build my confidence back (i remember sending my first message to a partner at one of the boutique media firms in London and genuinely being so surprised that he not only responded but offered to speak with me on the phone ) you also realise they are just human just like you loool + being honest with myself about what i wanted out of my career and what I was interested in terms of practice areas and sectors so private client work, charities, media etc. at a firm with a strong commercial practice too. This meant that my applications were more convincing and I approached the entire process with more enthusiasm.

Anyway, I genuinely believe I got this right when I was meant to and I am really just grateful that I don’t have to do another application or psychometric test or assessment for a while or ever lool! The entire process is so exhausting omg

Sorry for the essay but happy to answer any questions

Absolutely thrilled for you and just in time for big celebrations on the bank holiday weekend! Really hope you're able to make the most of celebrating with your friends and family as you've more than earned it

Massive well done again!

 

[Nnu]

It is Browne Jacobson, ok great does it say that when you start the test?

yes!! it says it at the beginning!!

How did you find it? I just did mine and idk if I’m slow but I found it really hard to finish in time and basically rushed through the last two questions on the deductive reasoning! I think the ones I did went well though

Agreed! Found it really hard to finish the deductive reasoning in time, but finished early for the inductive reasoning. Bit annoying that you can’t go back and check your answers though

yesss felt exactly the same! I guess if we all found it the same that's a more reassuring sign!

 

[Dheepa]

Open question, completely unrelated to law...:

Does anyone have recommendations for new tunes to listen to? I've kinda played all my current playlists to death... put it this way, if they were vinyl they'd be worn through! Got quite varied taste, listen to a lot of Gerry Cinnamon/ Sam Fischer/ Lewis Capaldi/ Paolo Nutini but also into a lot of older rock/ prog rock like AC/DC, The Who/ Pink Floyd.

Any recommendations would be wonderful

There's a playlist on Spotify called chilled dance hits that I'm listening to a lot at the moment! Very summer vibes haha

 

[Daniel Boden]

There's a playlist on Spotify called chilled dance hits that I'm listening to a lot at the moment! Very summer vibes haha

Big fan of that one!

 

[S87]

There's a playlist on Spotify called chilled dance hits that I'm listening to a lot at the moment! Very summer vibes haha

I listened a song from this playlist the other day and cried my eyes out! This lockdown is taking away the best of me

 

[Hele25]

Ohmygoodness guys - is anyone doing the WBD event about the application process for people who didn’t get though the VI - IM ON MY OWN with Joanne (the grad rec lady)
Oh well, some great one on one time

 

[Dheepa]

I listened a song from this playlist the other day and cried my eyes out! This lockdown is taking away the best of me

I listen to it and manifest my ideal summer of travelling. Yknow the law of attraction and all that

 

[Kablahc]

the firm that offered me a TC a month ago still hasn't sent me the documentation even though i've made clear to them verbally that my intention is to accept and i've rejected other offers to do so - this is my anxiety talking but do you guys think I should email them next week (it'll be 5 weeks since offer) to see when they'll send it to me?? Because next month I'll be in a difficult situation where the CSFS will probably offer me a placement which i wouldn't feel comfortable rejecting unless I've put pen to paper with the law firm. or do you guys think i should just chill and wait for it? I'm still in shock they offered it to me in the first place

Also, since I won't be doing the VS with them, HR said if I had an interest in a particular practice area they'd put me in touch for a Zoom coffee/email with an associate/partner etc from that area. I'm totally new to corporate/commercial law so everything looks new and shiny and amazing to me - if you guys were in that situation what practice area do you think is particularly interesting or would be fun to get exposure to??

 

[Dheepa]

the firm that offered me a TC a month ago still hasn't sent me the documentation even though i've made clear to them verbally that my intention is to accept and i've rejected other offers to do so - this is my anxiety talking but do you guys think I should email them next week (it'll be 5 weeks since offer) to see when they'll send it to me?? Because next month I'll be in a difficult situation where the CSFS will probably offer me a placement which i wouldn't feel comfortable rejecting unless I've put pen to paper with the law firm. or do you guys think i should just chill and wait for it? I'm still in shock they offered it to me in the first place

Also, since I won't be doing the VS with them, HR said if I had an interest in a particular practice area they'd put me in touch for a Zoom coffee/email with an associate/partner etc from that area. I'm totally new to corporate/commercial law so everything looks new and shiny and amazing to me - if you guys were in that situation what practice area do you think is particularly interesting or would be fun to get exposure to??

Yes, I would definitely call (not just email) at this point. I would honestly be feeling super anxious too if I was in your position. The only thing I would say is since you were made the offer outside of their normal TC offer making time frames (I remember you saying they gave you a TC offer off the back of your VS AC right?) maybe they are just waiting to send all the offers once they made more to other VS students etc. But either way, call them!

Re: which departments/associates to talk to - I'd definitely talk to a bank/corporate lawyer, a disputes lawyer, then any lawyers that work within specialists teams that your firm has high rankings in. Maybe something like real estate or employment?

 

[HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh]

the firm that offered me a TC a month ago still hasn't sent me the documentation even though i've made clear to them verbally that my intention is to accept and i've rejected other offers to do so - this is my anxiety talking but do you guys think I should email them next week (it'll be 5 weeks since offer) to see when they'll send it to me?? Because next month I'll be in a difficult situation where the CSFS will probably offer me a placement which i wouldn't feel comfortable rejecting unless I've put pen to paper with the law firm. or do you guys think i should just chill and wait for it? I'm still in shock they offered it to me in the first place

Also, since I won't be doing the VS with them, HR said if I had an interest in a particular practice area they'd put me in touch for a Zoom coffee/email with an associate/partner etc from that area. I'm totally new to corporate/commercial law so everything looks new and shiny and amazing to me - if you guys were in that situation what practice area do you think is particularly interesting or would be fun to get exposure to??

I always have a policy of never rejecting any other offers/pulling out of any processes until I've signed their documents. So I would be beating down their door!

I did the same calls, my areas of interest are construction and real estate. Found it so interesting to learn more about the departments and their work on partner calls, would definitely recommend doing the chats.

 

[nonlawstudent98]

Has anyone STILL not heard from HFW either way??

 

[Kablahc]

Yes, I would definitely call (not just email) at this point. I would honestly be feeling super anxious too if I was in your position. The only thing I would say is since you were made the offer outside of their normal TC offer making time frames (I remember you saying they gave you a TC offer off the back of your VS AC right?) maybe they are just waiting to send all the offers once they made more to other VS students etc. But either way, call them!

Re: which departments/associates to talk to - I'd definitely talk to a bank/corporate lawyer, a disputes lawyer, then any lawyers that work within specialists teams that your firm has high rankings in. Maybe something like real estate or employment?

Yeah that's how I got it! I was also thinking along the lines of maybe they'll get round to it when they made the TC offers for their Spring VS, which finished last week, so they can give out all of the offers within the same timeframe, but I don't actually know when they do that or if they wait until summer with the summer VSers as well. I'll have to shoot them an email on Monday!

I always have a policy of never rejecting any other offers/pulling out of any processes until I've signed their documents. So I would be beating down their door!

I did the same calls, my areas of interest are construction and real estate. Found it so interesting to learn more about the departments and their work on partner calls, would definitely recommend doing the chats.

Thanks for your suggestions guys!!!!! Yeah deffo interested in finance and real estate. Seems like they have 10000 different corporate teams so I'll have to ask them to toss whoever happens to be free at me

 

[Alice G]

the firm that offered me a TC a month ago still hasn't sent me the documentation even though i've made clear to them verbally that my intention is to accept and i've rejected other offers to do so - this is my anxiety talking but do you guys think I should email them next week (it'll be 5 weeks since offer) to see when they'll send it to me?? Because next month I'll be in a difficult situation where the CSFS will probably offer me a placement which i wouldn't feel comfortable rejecting unless I've put pen to paper with the law firm. or do you guys think i should just chill and wait for it? I'm still in shock they offered it to me in the first place

Also, since I won't be doing the VS with them, HR said if I had an interest in a particular practice area they'd put me in touch for a Zoom coffee/email with an associate/partner etc from that area. I'm totally new to corporate/commercial law so everything looks new and shiny and amazing to me - if you guys were in that situation what practice area do you think is particularly interesting or would be fun to get exposure to??

Just to add to the practice area question- it might be a great idea if you can get a couple of calls to speak to a lawyer whose role is more advisory and another lawyer whose role is more transactional. I think in doing that you may get more of an in-depth understanding of the two different roles and also the cross-overs My initial thoughts would be M&A and disputes, though do also account for the strengths of your particular firm!