TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[futuretrainee2025]

Just the counter this, I have seen plenty of people with no tax experience do well on their vacation schemes and convert.

Thank you! Any specific advice?

 

[Andrei Radu]

I’ve just received my buddy for my scheme, what kind of message should I drop him on LinkedIn? Thanks!

Hi @Kakaboo I think you should just write a short introduction, followed up by a request for any advice they may have for you. It could go something like this:

Hi ... (trainee's name), my name is ... (your name) and I just found out you will be my trainee buddy for my upcoming vacation scheme, so I thought I would quickly introduce myself here. Looking forward to joining the firm and also meeting you in person there!

I also just wanted to ask if you have any advice or tips regarding preparation for the scheme - are there any materials you think it would be useful for me to familiarize myself with?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Guys does anyone have any resources to recommend on how to improve your presentation skills or how to prepare for a presentation during an interview?

Hi @johnnn821 I have quoted below two posts in which I discussed this topic:

Hey @ghostyb, first of all huge congratulations for the AC, it is a big achievement! I have had presentations included in my VS/TC interviews before, though in my case I received the details of the exercise one or two days prior to the assessment and I got to use a power point presentation. In terms of your questions about what it could look like, the only one I can properly address is the first, as I think (based on my experience and that of others) that it is quite likely the presentation will be on a commercial topic. This way, firms get to test both your ability to digest and synthetize information and your general commercial awareness. As to the split - there could be many reasons for it and many ways to divide a topic in two parts; it could be something as simple as there being two different questions they want you to answer based on the same research material. Finally, I believe it is somewhat more likely that there will not be a choice of topics involved, as having a single topic is simply easier administratively and arguably leads to a more objective performance assessment.

Now, regarding preparation advice, I have two main pointers. Firstly, to improve your capacity for substantive commercial analysis, try to brush up on your commercial awareness. Listen to podcasts and read business news widely at first to ensure you are aware of all the important current issues, and then delve deeper into the stories that you think are more relevant for the firm's core practice areas. Secondly, to improve your communication and public speaking skills, do a couple of mock presentations following this structure. You can get a friend to select a few articles on a controversial commercial topic and then task you to read that under time conditions and then present a summary of the facts and your views on the issues. Ideally, your friend could then ask some follow up questions and argue against some of your points to also prepare you to defend your claims.

Finally, a bit of advice for how to manage the Q&A part during the day: it is quite possible that the partners will push back on your arguments and question your understanding of certain issues, but you need to be able to maintain composure and defend your views. This does not mean that you should never accept any criticisms or make clarifications when appropriate, of course you should. If they bring up relevant points, acknowledge that, and then seek to include them in a synthesis view combined with your points or explain why, despite being relevant, they do not carry as much weigh as the considerations you have brought up. It is important to show that you can argue for your viewpoint even when facing the pressure of an opposite opinion from someone more senior. This not only demonstrates desirable qualities like resilience and confidence, but is essential in commercial law, when many times you will find yourself negotiating or arguing on behalf of your client with someone more senior from the other side.

Hi @a3736y I think with most presentation task you just want to ensure you (i) have a very clear structure; (ii) deliver it in a composed and articulate manner; and (iii) focus on the interesting points of analysis and discussion. For (i) the details of the exact structure you employ will differ significantly based on the topic and the amount of information you want to convey. For example, it could look something like this:

1. First 15-30 seconds: you state the the topic and lay out the structure of your presentation
2. Next 1-1.5 minute: explain in a concise format the essential facts about the news story
3. From minute 2 to minute 3: note down new developments
4. From minute 3 to 4.30: analyze any controversial points and different views about the issues, providing some outline of an argument for your view
5. Final 30 seconds: summarize the points you have discussed and open the floor for questions

However, I think you would probably benefit the most by trying to fit your presentation into different formats and see what works best in practice. For (ii), again i think practice will be essential. You should record and assess your performance yourself, or, even better, have a friend do it for you. Then, repeat the presentation again and again until you are happy with your delivery. Finally, for (iii) I think you should try to read widely in the press about the chosen topic so that you can discuss the main arguments backing up the different viewpoints.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some practical advice on how to deal with very busy supervisors during VSs. I’ve noticed I tend to get great feedback from more involved supervisors (the ones who check in regularly, have tasks planned for you etc), but I struggle with very busy/hands-off supervisors.

In a recent VS that I didn’t convert, one of my supervisors (let's call them supervisor 1) checked in with me throughout the day, planned my tasks ahead of time, and gave me excellent feedback. Whereas supervisor 2, who was quite busy, gave me bad feedback (GR didn't tell me the specifics, just that I scored poorly in their evaluation). I don't think my work quality was the issue as all my work was reviewed by another lawyer (supervisor 2 was too busy to review it), and I only received positive feedback for my work. Therefore, I think the problem might be that I bothered supervisor 2 too much.

As supervisor 2 didn't check in with me, I tried to be proactive: I’d stop by their office (I was seated away from them) once or twice a day (usually morning/lunch and before leaving) to say hello, let them know what I was working on, and ask if they needed help. They also didn't give me any tasks initially, so I asked others around for tasks (I thought that was better than doing nothing). I did get tasks from others, but eventually a more senior lawyer intervened, said they would speak with my supervisor about the situation, and after that I started receiving tasks from them. I feel terrible, as I didn't mean to create more stress for supervisor 2 - I just didn't want to sit idle all week and was concerned I’d have nothing to speak about in the upcoming partner interview (as we were told it would be based on the tasks we completed).

Thankfully, I have another VS starting soon. However, I’m worried I might face a similar situation. So my questions are:

- With busy supervisors, how often should you try to speak to them in a day?​

- Is it better to wait for them to approach you/check in instead?​

- How many tasks would you typically be expected to complete in a week?​

- If your supervisor doesn't give you tasks, how long should you wait before asking others?​

I’d really appreciate any practical tips or insights (including advice that goes beyond my specific questions!). Thank you!

@Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman

Hi @KBanana I will give you my thoughts on each of your questions in turn:

1. With busy supervisors, how often should you try to speak to them in a day?
The first thing to point out here is the obvious fact that supervisors are also human, and thus prone to inappropriate reactions and mistakes, particularly when under a lot of stress. The experience you have described could in part be explained by the supervisor's resentment with a senior lawyer making him change his approach. Unfortunately, this kind of potential reaction is a factor you cannot completely control. People can be emotional and act unpredictably, and sometimes this results in unfair consequences for others.

Nonetheless, there are some things you can do to reduce the likelihood of this situation reoccurring. To then address the point of your question, I think it is crucial to read the room and have a flexible attitude. There is no set number of times you should try to speak to them. Whenever you return to the office after a longer period of time, you can just say hi and see what reaction you get. If the supervisor quickly mutters a greeting back and then returns to work without saying anything else, you should assume they do not want to speak more and should respect that. In my vacation schemes, I had days I would have maybe one 2-3 minute conversation with the supervisor and not interact further. However, I ended up receiving positive feedback from them.

2. Is it better to wait for them to approach you/check in instead?
Once again, I think this largely depends on the intangibles of their situation and your dynamic, although you can also try to address this directly when you first meet them by asking what they prefer.

3. How many tasks would you typically be expected to complete in a week?
There is definitely no set number for how many tasks you should complete, and for good reason. Some tasks may take a few days to an entire week, while others could be completed in a few hours. At the same time, some departments will be a lot busier than others and thus have many tasks you can get involved in, while some will not. Similarly, some practice areas have more tasks that vacation schemers can attempt to complete, while others are more technical and have a higher requirement of prior knowledge.

My advice here is to simply seek to keep your schedule busy and not overextend yourself. As long as it is clear from the nature of your tasks/your conversations with people in the department that you have done your best to do what you would be expected to as a trainee, this will not be an aspect that will hold you back in terms of conversion.

4. If your supervisor doesn't give you tasks, how long should you wait before asking others?
Like many other things, I think this is an issue that you should discuss directly with the supervisor themselves, as different people will have different preferences and different firms will have different policies/cultures. You should also ask the supervisor how they would advise you to go about asking for work - presumably, they will advise you to ask in a manner that does not raise eyebrows.

This touches upon the final matter I wanted to discuss: when you go asking others for work, you need to ensure you do so in a way that is least likely to reflect negatively on the supervisor. Thus, instead of saying something like 'Do you have any tasks I could help with? My supervisor is quite busy so they couldn't involve me in any of their work' (which suggests your supervisor is not doing their job well in managing you), you should say something like 'I have some capacity left - so I wanted to ask if there are any tasks I can help you with?' (which sounds a lot more neutral).

 

[thelegalstudent]

When asking for more work from other lawyers in the department on the vac scheme, could we reach out to associates or should we just stick to asking the other trainees in the department?

 

[KBanana]

Hi @KBanana I will give you my thoughts on each of your questions in turn:

1. With busy supervisors, how often should you try to speak to them in a day?
The first thing to point out here is the obvious fact that supervisors are also human, and thus prone to inappropriate reactions and mistakes, particularly when under a lot of stress. The experience you have described could in part be explained by the supervisor's resentment with a senior lawyer making him change his approach. Unfortunately, this kind of potential reaction is a factor you cannot completely control. People can be emotional and act unpredictably, and sometimes this results in unfair consequences for others.

Nonetheless, there are some things you can do to reduce the likelihood of this situation reoccurring. To then address the point of your question, I think it is crucial to read the room and have a flexible attitude. There is no set number of times you should try to speak to them. Whenever you return to the office after a longer period of time, you can just say hi and see what reaction you get. If the supervisor quickly mutters a greeting back and then returns to work without saying anything else, you should assume they do not want to speak more and should respect that. In my vacation schemes, I had days I would have maybe one 2-3 minute conversation with the supervisor and not interact further. However, I ended up receiving positive feedback from them.

2. Is it better to wait for them to approach you/check in instead?
Once again, I think this largely depends on the intangibles of their situation and your dynamic, although you can also try to address this directly when you first meet them by asking what they prefer.

3. How many tasks would you typically be expected to complete in a week?
There is definitely no set number for how many tasks you should complete, and for good reason. Some tasks may take a few days to an entire week, while others could be completed in a few hours. At the same time, some departments will be a lot busier than others and thus have many tasks you can get involved in, while some will not. Similarly, some practice areas have more tasks that vacation schemers can attempt to complete, while others are more technical and have a higher requirement of prior knowledge.

My advice here is to simply seek to keep your schedule busy and not overextend yourself. As long as it is clear from the nature of your tasks/your conversations with people in the department that you have done your best to do what you would be expected to as a trainee, this will not be an aspect that will hold you back in terms of conversion.

4. If your supervisor doesn't give you tasks, how long should you wait before asking others?
Like many other things, I think this is an issue that you should discuss directly with the supervisor themselves, as different people will have different preferences and different firms will have different policies/cultures. You should also ask the supervisor how they would advise you to go about asking for work - presumably, they will advise you to ask in a manner that does not raise eyebrows.

This touches upon the final matter I wanted to discuss: when you go asking others for work, you need to ensure you do so in a way that is least likely to reflect negatively on the supervisor. Thus, instead of saying something like 'Do you have any tasks I could help with? My supervisor is quite busy so they couldn't involve me in any of their work' (which suggests your supervisor is not doing their job well in managing you), you should say something like 'I have some capacity left - so I wanted to ask if there are any tasks I can help you with?' (which sounds a lot more neutral).

Thank you very much @Andrei Radu!

 

[Gr33n]

When asking for more work from other lawyers in the department on the vac scheme, could we reach out to associates or should we just stick to asking the other trainees in the department?

You can reach out to associates too no problem

 

[James Wakefield]

You can reach out to associates too no problem

And partners too, depending on whether the firm is hierarchical.

 

[ashwright]

Missed a vacation scheme this year? There's still time! The TCLA team are excited to share the following opportunity.

Perkins Coie London has just announced its vacation scheme. It runs this summer. And you can apply in the next two weeks.

It's a firm that has a huge presence in the US, especially in the tech sector - working with clients like Amazon, Meta and Amazon. What's interesting about the London-side is it's new, fast-growing, and operates very much like a start-up. This is a chance to join the firm as it builds its London practice.

It is a very unique vacation scheme (which tells you a lot about the firm), including gamified AI case studies, masterclasses to boost skills and commercial awareness, and a group pitch to a Founder/General Counsel client. As well as being a paid position, the firm will cover the cost of accommodation and travel.

Want to apply directly instead? The firm is also hiring for its Legal Business Analyst role.

For the vacation scheme, apply here by 23 June 2025.

Hi, Jessica! I wanted to ask a quick question about eligibility for this. On Perkins Coie's website, it says that the vacation scheme is open to final year students. I'm not sure if I count as a graduate or as a final year student - I will graduate this year (2025) but I haven't got my final year exam results yet, my degree certificate, & I even still have one exam left to do. I understand that the LBA role is open to both final year students & graduates, but I'm currently looking for shorter term experience, hence my interest in the VS.

Do you think I can apply to the VS?

Thank you in advance!

 

[User5678]

Has anyone received the update email from Howard Kennedy? I cannot seem to find any attached questionnaire in the email so did people just reply to the email with all information they asked? Thanks

 

[S7321]

If I was offered a TC at a firm that wanted me to start my studies in a year's time, would it be possible they would offer me some sort of employment at the firm for a year before then? For example as a legal assistant or within a non fee-earning part of the business?

I've seen some people who have worked as paralegals for a year before starting their PGDL or SQE, but I don't have a law degree so trying to figure out what sort of employment would be viable or useful!

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Hi, Jessica! I wanted to ask a quick question about eligibility for this. On Perkins Coie's website, it says that the vacation scheme is open to final year students. I'm not sure if I count as a graduate or as a final year student - I will graduate this year (2025) but I haven't got my final year exam results yet, my degree certificate, & I even still have one exam left to do. I understand that the LBA role is open to both final year students & graduates, but I'm currently looking for shorter term experience, hence my interest in the VS.

Do you think I can apply to the VS?

Thank you in advance!

You’ll be a final year student.

 

[Alturistic whale]

Hey @Jessica Booker For Percins Coie, they say to have the cover letter include:

• What attracts you to the LBA program?
• What is a recent story in the news that could impact a Perkins Coie client and what could that effect be?

In terms of content, would you suggest the cover letter to directly addresses these 2 points and have the common 'why me', 'why commercial law' or, to just have the 2 points mentioned above in the cover letter?

There does not seem to be a word count limit, but I will send Natalie an email clarifying that.

-Thanks in advance

 

[SeniorJunior]

RIP bro, thats arguably the hardest area of law. I sat in tax for a spring vac scheme and didnt convert despite having two years tax working experience. Not to scare you but idk anyone who has got a TC after sitting in tax so prepare yourself and get ready for the challenge. Feel free to message me and i can give you a few pointers.

What a way to encourage someone.
To counter this, my first VS was this April, I sat in tax and have no tax experience whatsoever. I was terrified, but I walked away with great feedback and a TC offer.
They’re not expecting you to know everything on a VS, they’re looking for your work ethic and how you solve things and handle not knowing.

 

[Eros]

Hey @Jessica Booker For Percins Coie, they say to have the cover letter include:

• What attracts you to the LBA program?
• What is a recent story in the news that could impact a Perkins Coie client and what could that effect be?

In terms of content, would you suggest the cover letter to directly addresses these 2 points and have the common 'why me', 'why commercial law' or, to just have the 2 points mentioned above in the cover letter?

There does not seem to be a word count limit, but I will send Natalie an email clarifying that.

-Thanks in advance

In the webinar Natalie mentioned to only answer the questions asked. I assume they will ask the "why law and why us" in the interview. With no word count do you think 250 words for both combined is enough or should I write more ?

 

[YnoFeedback?]

Hi @Jessica Booker, I am curious - out of worry to be honest - whether a firm cares if I have made previous application to their VS/TC and been rejected? Is there a limit to the number of times that I can apply? I am worried Recruitment will look down on/less favorably on my application if I have applied more than once before. Even just applications that were not submitted but started. Should I just delete my account history (assuming this is possible) or make new ones under a different email?

 

[emma.d]

Hi, can anyone attending the BCLP Real Estate talk this morning with Legal Cheek send me their notes afterwards? I can share notes from the Jones Day deals and Willkie disputes sessions that were yesterday. Thank you so so much

 

[londonlawyer]

Would it be okay for me to email the recruitment manager to ask about the specific assessments and interviews that will be conducted during the vacation scheme? My scheme starts next week, and we have not been given any information on what we will be doing on the scheme.

 

[FM302989]

Would it be okay for me to email the recruitment manager to ask about the specific assessments and interviews that will be conducted during the vacation scheme? My scheme starts next week, and we have not been given any information on what we will be doing on the scheme.

I wouldn't. You'll likely get the itinerary on your first day

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Would it be okay for me to email the recruitment manager to ask about the specific assessments and interviews that will be conducted during the vacation scheme? My scheme starts next week, and we have not been given any information on what we will be doing on the scheme.

Rather than asking via email, I think this would be a great question to ask on your first day/when you meet the recruitment team if they don’t explain that to you (I suspect they will).