TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[lawstudent2]

I would say 64 is fine for the top level firms assuming you are at RG

Yeh I am and thanks that's helpful

 

[Kakaboo]

Could you clarify the question please?

Are you asking how you can talk about incoming vacation schemes in the applications you want to submit for direct TCs?

Or have you already submitted the applications for the direct TCs and asking how to talk about them in any upcoming interviews?

Yes the first question!

 

[Amma Usman]

Yes the first question!

Ah I see. Two ways, from my view.

The first is through the work experience section. Just putting a short note saying that it’s yet to commence. If you know of any seats you are going to be completing, it’s worth mentioning. If these are core practices of the firm you’ll be completing a vac scheme at, then that’s a great link to make. However, the question in any recruiters mind will then be why are you applying to them if you have a vac scheme coming up. This will be more so at interview stage, however, where you are asked that explicitly. So you’ll need to have solid answers prepared. Another thing is that the word count may not be enough to blab on about so much detail in this section. In the work experience section as well, you’d rather keep this away from any tangents. In summary, a simple “yet to commence” note, together with some supplementary detail you deem necessary, should suffice.

The second way to talk about it is in the why commercial law section / cover letter. Simply saying something like your incoming vacation scheme will further expose you to the profession. Though, there’s less to talk about here too since it’s incoming and not yet completed. Nevertheless, including it, however so slightly, still beefs up the quality of your application.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi, if anyone knows about this and can be brutally honest I'd really appreciate it. I just got my second year grades back and they were not what I expected - I ended up with an average of around 64 but that's with two high 2.2s and some high 2.1s to get it there. Is that going to get me immediately rejected from some of the higher firms eg magic circle and large US? I just want to be realistic going into the next cycle with these grades and not waste my time and increase disappointment as I know the two 2.2s despite being on the border are prolly not what they want still. Thanks

Hiya @lawstudent2


Wanted to get some honest feedback to you, and hope this helps. The truth is, some US and Magic Circle firms can be pretty particular when it comes to academic consistency. That said, many are more flexible than you might think. They’ll usually look at what subjects the lower grades were in. For example, a 2:2 in something like tax or family law might not be as concerning to them as a 2:2 in contract or tort. They’ll also be thinking about the overall pattern (e.g. was this a one-off dip? Did your performance pick up later? Were there any mitigating circumstances that you've mentioned?)

But here’s the most important part: please don’t self-select out. Way too many candidates self-select out based on assumptions that may not be true and often based on very weak evidence (this is something I've found frustrating when meeting really great candidates on here who may have a few blips in their academic record). A well-crafted application can absolutely help balance out academic performance in certain modules. I’ve seen plenty of people with uneven transcripts go on to secure offers at US firms because they demonstrated excellent commercial awareness, showed growth, and drafted strong applications.

So yes, be realistic, but don’t write yourself off unless you have strong evidence that these grades are going to be a deal breaker at some firms (this is actually quite difficult evidence to get in the case of some firms). Just focus on what you can control heading into this next cycle. Good luck!

 

[trainee4u]

Is there usually 'free time' in a VS schedule!? I have a four-day VS, and a firm has invited me for Zoom interview & online assessment during that time, lasting a rather excessive 90 minutes.

I have said "er, I'm doing a VS", and they've replied "sorry we're busy and can't offer you any other time - maybe you can get away for 90 minutes". Given I don't have my VS schedule but would need to book a slot, and I'm being paid to impress for a mere four days, going along with this seems very foolish. I mean even emailing them asking for the schedule seems rather presumptuous.

Any thoughts!?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Is there usually 'free time' in a VS schedule!? I have a four-day VS, and a firm has invited me for Zoom interview & online assessment during that time, lasting a rather excessive 90 minutes.

I have said "er, I'm doing a VS", and they've replied "sorry we're busy and can't offer you any other time - maybe you can get away for 90 minutes". Given I don't have my VS schedule but would need to book a slot, and I'm being paid to impress for a mere four days, going along with this seems very foolish. I mean even emailing them asking for the schedule seems rather presumptuous.

Any thoughts!?

Heya @trainee4u

That’s a really tricky dilemma. You're right to be thinking carefully about this, especially since it's such a short scheme and you’ll want to make the most of every moment.

In most vac schemes, there usually is some breathing room built in (e.g. time for coffee chats, breaks between tasks, or just a bit of downtime), though not necessarily 90 mins. That said, it’s hard to predict in advance exactly when that will fall without seeing your schedule. I think it's completely reasonable to drop the grad recruitment team a polite message asking if a schedule is available yet, just so you can plan ahead. However, just be aware that they may not be able/willing to offer you a sense of the schedule yet.

I’m sorry the other firm isn’t being more flexible about the timing, but hope it works out!

 

[Amma Usman]

Is there usually 'free time' in a VS schedule!? I have a four-day VS, and a firm has invited me for Zoom interview & online assessment during that time, lasting a rather excessive 90 minutes.

I have said "er, I'm doing a VS", and they've replied "sorry we're busy and can't offer you any other time - maybe you can get away for 90 minutes". Given I don't have my VS schedule but would need to book a slot, and I'm being paid to impress for a mere four days, going along with this seems very foolish. I mean even emailing them asking for the schedule seems rather presumptuous.

Any thoughts!?

I have responded to a similar question on this a few days back and my thoughts on this stay the same. Unless you have no passion to secure a TC with your VS firm, then this is not advisable. I had once gotten two ACs during a VS, but turned them down because my interest in training at the firm I was doing a VS at, was greater. You risk affecting your performance greatly at your VS firm by taking a 90 minute break. Traditionally, these breaks will usually be only an hour (60 mins), plus we haven’t even taken into account commuting timings which add to that time contraint. Emailing the VS firm with a question on scheduling will also not change the fact that to get a 90 minute break is still difficult and places a strain on your chances. Ultimately, communication is key, as well as balancing your interests.

 

[trainee4u]

I have responded to a similar question on this a few days back and my thoughts on this stay the same. Unless you have no passion to secure a TC with your VS firm, then this is not advisable. I had once gotten two ACs during a VS, but turned them down because my interest in training at the firm I was doing a VS at, was greater. You risk affecting your performance greatly at your VS firm by taking a 90 minute break. Traditionally, these breaks will usually be only an hour (60 mins), plus we haven’t even taken into account commuting timings which add to that time contraint. Emailing the VS firm with a question on scheduling will also not change the fact that to get a 90 minute break is still difficult and places a strain on your chances. Ultimately, communication is key, as well as balancing your interests.

Thanks for the thoughts - there's no commute per se, as it's online (although realistically I wouldn't feel comfortable doing an interview for a different firm from the firm's office, so I'd need to find a location elsewhere, which would probably add around 15 minutes to my downtime).

As I understand it the 90 minutes is comprised of a 45-minute interview and an assessment: it's not clear whether the assessment can be done separately; I've emailed to ask, but I suspect not - a 45-minute interview seems more doable, but 90 minutes seems excessive.

 

[lawstudent2]

Hiya @lawstudent2


Wanted to get some honest feedback to you, and hope this helps. The truth is, some US and Magic Circle firms can be pretty particular when it comes to academic consistency. That said, many are more flexible than you might think. They’ll usually look at what subjects the lower grades were in. For example, a 2:2 in something like tax or family law might not be as concerning to them as a 2:2 in contract or tort. They’ll also be thinking about the overall pattern (e.g. was this a one-off dip? Did your performance pick up later? Were there any mitigating circumstances that you've mentioned?)

But here’s the most important part: please don’t self-select out. Way too many candidates self-select out based on assumptions that may not be true and often based on very weak evidence (this is something I've found frustrating when meeting really great candidates on here who may have a few blips in their academic record). A well-crafted application can absolutely help balance out academic performance in certain modules. I’ve seen plenty of people with uneven transcripts go on to secure offers at US firms because they demonstrated excellent commercial awareness, showed growth, and drafted strong applications.

So yes, be realistic, but don’t write yourself off unless you have strong evidence that these grades are going to be a deal breaker at some firms (this is actually quite difficult evidence to get in the case of some firms). Just focus on what you can control heading into this next cycle. Good luck!

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time and that does help a lot

 

[bangarangbass39]

Do law firms have waiting lists for training contract offers? Especially if you’ve been rejected after completing a vac scheme and a TC interview with them?

 

[InterestInPublicLaw]

Hi, does anyone know if RPC is fine with using point form in the Work Experience section? The word limit is only 150 words.

Also, did anyone ask if we could put extracurricular activities/positions of responsibility in this section too?

 

[Kakaboo]

Hi, does anyone know if RPC is fine with using point form in the Work Experience section? The word limit is only 150 words.

Also, did anyone ask if we could put extracurricular activities/positions of responsibility in this section too?

They must be 150 is insane

 

[Kakaboo]

Hello, I start my vac scheme tomorrow. What questions should I ask trainees? And can someone pls give me a prompt on how to introduce myself and ask what do you do here haha. Also I want to talk to people in the corporate and intellectual property teams. What questions should I ask them which sounds insightful? Am I allowed to ask them about deals?

 

[Gin]

Hi does anyone know is the deadline for Perkins Coie is today 23:59 or tomorrow?

 

[Lawgraduate245]

Beale and co DTC partner and HR interview invite. The only thing mentioned in their email is the interview would be for 30 mins on teams.

Does anyone who did the interview for the firms VS know what the interview is like (commercial or motivation and competency based or a mix of both?)

many thanks!

@Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu @ZNadeem @Jessica Booker

What sort of questions did they ask please-thinking of applying to next year?

 

[thelawstudent]

Hi, does anyone know if Perkins Coie VS is a route to the LBA? IE is it like a traditional VS that you can convert?

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi, does anyone know if RPC is fine with using point form in the Work Experience section? The word limit is only 150 words.

Also, did anyone ask if we could put extracurricular activities/positions of responsibility in this section too?

A mix of bullet points and prose is always recommended. Though, given the word limit constraint, I understand your carefulness around this. I would personally aim for around 2-4 bullet points (depending on how detailed you really want to be) accurately explained. You don’t need to link it to the firm at this point, but it’ll be good to weave in any skills acquired. Though, please don’t stress about it too much for now as the other application questions/cover letters will provide way more scope to go into that in more detail anyway.

Let me give you one example of a bullet point below:

- Interned within the in-house legal team of an investment bank. I was responsible for compiling a detailed list of matters for consideration in the next AI report to be disseminated across global fronts. In addition, typical daily tasks included document review, and recording minute meetings. Feedback from my manager on my ability to manage multiple commitments easily and simultaneously produce high-quality work, fuelled my passion to become a commercial lawyer.

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi, does anyone know if Perkins Coie VS is a route to the LBA? IE is it like a traditional VS that you can convert?

Hi there! I’ll inquire about this and get back to you shortly.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Do law firms have waiting lists for training contract offers? Especially if you’ve been rejected after completing a vac scheme and a TC interview with them?

Hi @bangarangbass39

Yep, many firms do have waiting lists for training contracts. The size of the list tends to vary based on the size of the intake. From what I've understood, these lists are usually made up of strong candidates who just narrowly missed out on an offer and are kept in reserve in case places become available. That said, if a firm has already sent a rejection after a vacation scheme and final interview, it unfortunately means the candidate wasn’t placed on the waiting list. In those cases, it's not a matter of waiting to hear back, because the rejection is a final decision during that cycle.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hello, I start my vac scheme tomorrow. What questions should I ask trainees? And can someone pls give me a prompt on how to introduce myself and ask what do you do here haha. Also I want to talk to people in the corporate and intellectual property teams. What questions should I ask them which sounds insightful? Am I allowed to ask them about deals?

Hiya @Kakaboo

I'm sure @Amma Usman would also have more to add here, but wanted to get something to you in the meantime

I'd say don't overthink your intro. You can send an email and say something alone the lines of: “Hi, I’m [Name], I’m here on the vacation scheme this week. I'd be really grateful to schedule a chat to discuss [your work in X team/your experiences at the firm]." That said, I'd say try to arrange coffee chats with people you genuinely want to speak with; I really believe those are the conversations that will seem more organic and where your enthusiasm can really shine through.

It’s also completely fine to ask about corporate/IP matters. Just make sure to do some research before each of your coffee chats. It's very easy to tell when candidates are simply scheduling coffee chats for the sake of it, instead of doing so because they are genuinely interested in engaging with the person on the other side. Even having a quick look at the person’s LinkedIn profile and the firm’s corporate/IP page of the website can help you ask genuinely interesting questions. To start off those conversations, you can ask/say something like:

• “What kind of matters are keeping the team busy right now?”
• “What does a typical day look like for you in corporate/IP?”
• “What sorts of clients or industries do you mostly work with? Do you find the corporate team is more sector-agnostic in the work it carries out?”
• “Is there a recent deal or case the team’s worked on that stood out to you?”

Without knowing which firm you're completing the scheme at, it's a bit difficult to give you more precise questions to suggest.

With respect to trainees, you'll want to try to get a sense of their professional development, training, and involvement at the firm. Some useful questions to put to them might include:

• What was it like when you actually began at the firm? How did you find the transition?
• How did you end in at your practice area? Where would you have gone if you hadn't ended up here?
• Is there any scope to contribute ideas to the firm as a trainee?
• How is it ensured that trainees on client secondments get the same standard of training?
• How would you describe X firm’s place in the market?
• How has the firm invested in your personal training/development?
• How many of you tend to work on a deal?
• Do you find the culture non-hierarchical? Open door policy?
• What do you wish you’d known about being a trainee before you started that you now do?

Hope this helps get the ball rolling on your coffee chat prep. Best of luck with the vac scheme!