General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[Las123]

Does anyone know if A and O recruit mainly through VS? I'm tempted to apply for direct TC but not sure it's worth it as I haven't done a vac scheme anywhere else.

In my experience, it is okay to apply without a VS from anywhere. I am a year removed from applying though, so do double check their approach with grad rec

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

If you have done a MC VS, but are applying to US firms this cycle, do you really have to draw out why you would prefer a US over a MC firm in the written part of your application, or just mention it at interview?

(For context, as I am non-law I was not eligible to apply for US firms last year)

no - sometimes the MC and US comparisons are pretty weak/not true anyway where they are very generalised.

 

[M1999]

I should know this.. but I don’t so
does anyone know if subjects should be capitalised or not? Google is giving me mixed reviews
For example when talking about your geography dissertation; is it Geography or geography? Thanks!

 

[Nat000]

I should know this.. but I don’t so
does anyone know if subjects should be capitalised or not? Google is giving me mixed reviews
For example when talking about your geography dissertation; is it Geography or geography? Thanks!

I would capitalise

 

[LegalNim]

I should know this.. but I don’t so
does anyone know if subjects should be capitalised or not? Google is giving me mixed reviews
For example when talking about your geography dissertation; is it Geography or geography? Thanks!

In my experience, it shouldn't be capitalised unless it would be capitalised for another reason. Like "I enjoyed studying geography because..." but "I enjoyed studying English because...". Languages should always be capitalised. I'd capitalise it as the name of your degree and module titles though.

 

[LS12]

If you haven't done a VS anywhere else, then A&O's VS/direct TC ratio doesn't matter to you. Rule of thumb is you need a VS under your belt first to apply for a TC.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the advice I've been given is less whether you have a VS and more whether you have legal experience. Having spoken to grad recruitment a lot have said the same things, you don't necessarily have to have a VS, but you do need to clearly show you understand what a career in law entails and that it's the career for you. When I was discussing this with one Grad Rec they said the preference for candidates to have done a VS is purely because its a strong indicator that they understand what a TC entails (through the opportunity to do similar tasks) and that they want a career in law. That being said, I've done other legal work experience and I have a role in legal at the moment, and I've been encouraged to apply for TCs.

Obviously whilst saying all of the above I think from a numbers perspective, a lot of firms hire more of their trainees through VS than through direct TC applications and the odds seem higher if you go down this route. I think it's worthwhile doing a mix if you can. I know my current role means I won't have much time to do VS so I've only applied to firms I'm super passionate about or have a small intake. Where firms have larger intakes and offer direct TC applications I will be applying via the direct route (even though I don't have a VS on the old CV!)

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the advice I've been given is less whether you have a VS and more whether you have legal experience. Having spoken to grad recruitment a lot have said the same things, you don't necessarily have to have a VS, but you do need to clearly show you understand what a career in law entails and that it's the career for you. When I was discussing this with one Grad Rec they said the preference for candidates to have done a VS is purely because its a strong indicator that they understand what a TC entails (through the opportunity to do similar tasks) and that they want a career in law. That being said, I've done other legal work experience and I have a role in legal at the moment, and I've been encouraged to apply for TCs.

Obviously whilst saying all of the above I think from a numbers perspective, a lot of firms hire more of their trainees through VS than through direct TC applications and the odds seem higher if you go down this route. I think it's worthwhile doing a mix if you can. I know my current role means I won't have much time to do VS so I've only applied to firms I'm super passionate about or have a small intake. Where firms have larger intakes and offer direct TC applications I will be applying via the direct route (even though I don't have a VS on the old CV!)

I’d agree with you for the most part: firms want previous legal experience - but generally they want previous corporate experience. Most non vac scheme legal experience that an average second year university student is going to have is a fortnight making coffee in a high street firm - hardly relevant experience .

Naturally, if you’ve worked as a paralegal, or done mini pupillages, or interned at the ICC or whatever, then that counts as serious prior legal experience. However, again, most second and third year students - at whom the vast majority of the recruitment is targeting - won’t have done that. You have a role in legal, which instantly puts you in a very different category to a student. You can demonstrate proper legal experience, they can’t.

What I’m trying to get at is that there’s a world of difference between “I work in the legal sphere already (paralegal, legal secretary, whatever) and am applying for a TC without a VS” and “I’m a student/graduate who doesn’t have a VS, and is applying for TCs”. Since most people applying fall into the student category, it’s just a very different set of circumstances.

 

[Las123]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the advice I've been given is less whether you have a VS and more whether you have legal experience. Having spoken to grad recruitment a lot have said the same things, you don't necessarily have to have a VS, but you do need to clearly show you understand what a career in law entails and that it's the career for you. When I was discussing this with one Grad Rec they said the preference for candidates to have done a VS is purely because its a strong indicator that they understand what a TC entails (through the opportunity to do similar tasks) and that they want a career in law. That being said, I've done other legal work experience and I have a role in legal at the moment, and I've been encouraged to apply for TCs.

Obviously whilst saying all of the above I think from a numbers perspective, a lot of firms hire more of their trainees through VS than through direct TC applications and the odds seem higher if you go down this route. I think it's worthwhile doing a mix if you can. I know my current role means I won't have much time to do VS so I've only applied to firms I'm super passionate about or have a small intake. Where firms have larger intakes and offer direct TC applications I will be applying via the direct route (even though I don't have a VS on the old CV!)

Absolutely agree Lydia! Grad rec, usually, just want to see sound reasoning for why commercial law, and that reasoning can come from lots of different experiences and career trajectories (so with some firms even legal experience is not a prerequisite, if you’re able to pull together a well reasoned motivation answer)

 

[lawlad]

Hey guys, I got a vac scheme interview with HSF! Does anyone know good resources to use to prepare for the on for the scenario based part of the interview. Have looked at TCLA interview experiences which has been v v useful. They are doing two scenario based interviews for winter vac this year

 

[Rebecca L.]

Hey guys, I got a vac scheme interview with HSF! Does anyone know good resources to use to prepare for the on for the scenario based part of the interview. Have looked at TCLA interview experiences which has been v v useful. They are doing two scenario based interviews for winter vac this year

Heya, congrats on the interview! I've got the same one and just as stumped I'll be honest, it's my first AC. Where did you find the interview experiences?

 

[lawlad]

Heya, congrats on the interview! I've got the same one and just as stumped I'll be honest, it's my first AC. Where did you find the interview experiences?

Same to you!

Interview experiences here
https://www.thecorporatelawacademy.com/experience/herbert-smith-freehills-interview/

 

[M1999]

Hey guys, I got a vac scheme interview with HSF! Does anyone know good resources to use to prepare for the on for the scenario based part of the interview. Have looked at TCLA interview experiences which has been v v useful. They are doing two scenario based interviews for winter vac this year

Congrats!! Is this winter ?

 

[lawlad]

Congrats!! Is this winter ?

Thank you! and yes its winter

 

[CorporateB3]

Hi, does anyone have any tips for the White & Case virtual interview?

 

[thirdtimelucky]

What counts as “legal” work experience? And how, as a non-law student, would you get any without a GDL/Vac Scheme?

For the record I’m currently working as a Court clerk in family law so I don’t know if that really counts?

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

What counts as “legal” work experience? And how, as a non-law student, would you get any without a GDL/Vac Scheme?

For the record I’m currently working as a Court clerk in family law so I don’t know if that really counts?

That counts as legal work experience.

 

[sp28]

Hi, does anyone have any tips for the White & Case virtual interview?

Hey just wondering is this for the direct TC or winter VS, and when you heard back as I’m still waiting to hear from my direct TC app!

 

[CorporateB3]

Hey just wondering is this for the direct TC or winter VS, and when you heard back as I’m still waiting to hear from my direct TC app!

Direct TC!

 

[Remily]

Hey guys, I got a vac scheme interview with HSF! Does anyone know good resources to use to prepare for the on for the scenario based part of the interview. Have looked at TCLA interview experiences which has been v v useful. They are doing two scenario based interviews for winter vac this year

Heya, congrats on the interview! I've got the same one and just as stumped I'll be honest, it's my first AC. Where did you find the interview experiences?

Hey congrats on your ACs! I did the AC for last spring and got a TC. More than happy to answer any questions

 

[LegalNim]

Anyone else still waiting to hear back from HFW? I'd pretty much given up all hope but I'm pretty sure someone posted the other day they'd received a rejection - and I'm still waiting to hear. I heard back from a firm earlier this week offering me an AC for a TC application I submitted last cycle so I thought maybe there's still a chance with HFW?