TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2024-5

[Tintin06]

Hi guys, does anyone have a good website for UK firm rankings? Like what is the most universally recognised - The Lawyer? I know it's not super important I'm just trying to find some info

The Legal 500 is generally excellent. The Lawyer’s stuff is generally paywalled. But you can Google their headlines. Other outlets cover their content too. Lateral hires are often covered elsewhere.

The Lawyer’s profiles are often outdated. So it’s not often that useful. For headlines though, it’s very helpful. Then as I say, Google them.

 

[AlegalA]

The Legal 500 is generally excellent.

Legal 500 is more for specific practice areas though isn't it? Unless they have an overall list for firms in general?

 

[Tintin06]

Legal 500 is more for specific practice areas though isn't it? Unless they have an overall list for firms in general?

For that, Chambers & Partners helps. Helpfully, it’s integrated with Chambers Student. Still, only gets you so far. Good to combine with other resources.

 

[Logan1101]

For that, Chambers & Partners helps. Helpfully, it’s integrated with Chambers Student. Still, only gets you so far. Good to combine with other resources.

I think Chambers Student and RollOnFriday are two underrated sources that go a long way at not only describing firm's practice but the trainee experience at each law firm. However, I think there are limits to what you can research. Not every major deal a law firm makes is on headlines and I've noticed that many firms don't document their pro bono work as much. A number of US firms only put up pro bono work done in the US, which while helpful is irrelevant to the UK practice. Lastly, there is only so much you can say to impress a firm about what practice areas you are interested in and talking about how good they are.

 

[whywhy88]

Anyone else not heard from HL yet?

 

[Tintin06]

I think Chambers Student and RollOnFriday are two underrated sources that go a long way at not only describing firm's practice but the trainee experience at each law firm. However, I think there are limits to what you can research. Not every major deal a law firm makes is on headlines and I've noticed that many firms don't document their pro bono work as much. A number of US firms only put up pro bono work done in the US, which while helpful is irrelevant to the UK practice. Lastly, there is only so much you can say to impress a firm about what practice areas you are interested in and talking about how good they are.

CS seems more consistent than ROF. Legal Cheek is also great too. Their ‘grading’ system can be helpful.

I agree with your last point. Hence, open days can be crucial. That and talking to the trainees.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Anything from PMC? According to online sources there is no second stage and straight to AC if successful.

If this is true - may not hear back for a while yet

Hiya @BillSikes

Yep, from what I understand, successful candidates are invited straight through to the assessment centre stage. I spoke to a few people who applied during the last application cycle, and apparently PMC definitely held ACs in July 2024. That said, recruitment timelines can always shift from year to year, so it’s something to keep in mind. Hope that helps and best of luck with any remaining applications you’re working on!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

I applied for schemes/ TC’s starting in my 2nd year of uni albeit I’ve never took it seriously, same in 2024. This was my first year taking it seriously and I didn’t get anywhere.

I’m turning 23 this year and I used to think that not getting a TC now means I’ll be ‘out of my prime’ when I may end up getting one years down the line with fresh graduates securing TC’s at the ages of 20. But I realise that’s just ridiculous and it’s unfair to compare myself to other people.

I do feel very down about my rejections but I’m not going to give up! I mean it’s not the end for me, although I don’t work in a legally qualifying job I do work in a stable job as crown court clerk, I’m currently doing my Law Conversion Course (Master’s) with BPP and I’m prepping to take the SQE1 next year in the summer.

And it’s not the end for everyone else either! You can get thousands of rejects but we only need one yes to move forward.

Am I correct that the application cycle for the majority of firms begin in October/November? I’m going to make it my mission to start prepping early.

Hiya @RaniaH062002

I just wanted to echo what @Jessica Booker has already said. This is such a great mindset to have, and it puts you ahead already. A lot of people underestimate just how many different skills the application process tests - writing clearly and persuasively, thinking commercially, performing well in interviews, and demonstrating decent interpersonal skills. None of those come overnight. It really does take time, reflection, and practice. The fact that you’ve taken this cycle seriously and are now planning ahead for the next one means you’re absolutely on the right track. Keep doubling down on those skills and building on what you’ve already learn. I really believe it will pay off!

As Jess mentioned, I still think it's worth applying for direct training contract, particularly given your experience as a Crown Court clerk. However, the next application cycle will start in September for most firms (though there are some firms that will start accepting applications as early as August). I think it's a great idea to start early in the summer, particularly since there are many firms (e.g. Clifford Chance, White & Case, Freshfields, Jones Day and others) which ask the same application questions or require a cover letter year after year. So even if they tweak things slightly, having a solid draft gives you something to work with. You wouldn't be starting from scratch, and you’ll have content you can adapt quickly even if their application questions do change in the next cycle.

By starting early, you’re also giving yourself the time and space to reflect properly on your experiences, to research each firm in depth, and to ensure that your answers are really convincing. Not to mention that you'll help yourself minimise the pressure of juggling multiple deadlines in September, October, and November when so many firms open at once. By starting early in the summer, you'll find that you'll be spending your application cycle refining your answers rather than rushing through them. And that matters, because a rushed application often reads like one.

Good luck with the SQE1 and your applications!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi guys, does anyone have a good website for UK firm rankings? Like what is the most universally recognised - The Lawyer? I know it's not super important I'm just trying to find some info

Hiya @AlegalA

I'm sure @Andrei Radu, @Amma Usman, and @Jessica Booker may have more to add here, but I think this is actually a difficult question to answer because rankings depend on what you're measuring (practice area strength, profitability, headcount, client feedback, training quality, etc.). As I'm sure you already know, different publications rank firms for different purposes. For instance:

• Legal 500 and Chambers UK: These are the most widely used legal directories and rank firms (as well as individual lawyers) by practice area. Although I'm not entirely sure about this, it seems as though their rankings are based largely on client and peer feedback.
  
  
• The Lawyer: This is more commercial/industry-focused. Having read through a lot of their reports, I've found that most of their rankings and data are based on financial performance, RPP, headcount, etc., and they often divide the rankings according to whether they're focussed on UK- and US-headquartered firms.
  
  
• RollOnFriday/Legal Cheek: Based on my own reading of these rankings, I've genereally found that these are more focused on culture, trainee satisfaction, and work-life balance, and very often based on anonymous surveys. This is less “formal” but helpful if you’re choosing where to apply.

If you provide more context and let us know what you're trying to compare or find out (for example, are you comparing firms in a specific practice area, or trying to understand the market more broadly?), I can try to find the most relevant rankings or data for you. Hope that helps

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi guys, does anyone have a good website for UK firm rankings? Like what is the most universally recognised - The Lawyer? I know it's not super important I'm just trying to find some info

I don’t have much to add to Ram’s great response, but just a quick note to be mindful of how rankings are interpreted. A firm might be placed in Band 3 for a broader practice area but still hold a Band 1 position in a specific niche within that area - whether that’s regionally, globally, or based on sector expertise.

For instance, Clyde & Co is highly regarded for its global insurance practice, even if its ranking in broader corporate categories might differ. Similarly, Travers Smith is exceptionally strong in private equity M&A within the UK, even if it appears in a different band in more general corporate rankings.

The point I’m trying to make is that while band rankings are definitely useful and worth considering, they aren’t everything. It’s always helpful to look a bit deeper into what the rankings actually reflect.

 

[andrecsaa]

Hi guys, does anyone have a good website for UK firm rankings? Like what is the most universally recognised - The Lawyer? I know it's not super important I'm just trying to find some info

Unfortunately there is not such a ranking. You need to combine the information.

As said by @Ram Sabaratnam,
Legal 500 and Chambers are mostly based on client and peer feedback. Firms submit forms with 20–40 key publishable and non-publishable matters (deals, litigation, investigations, etc.) and client contacts. They assess the work and feedback to rank individuals and teams. That is why you might see a partner ranked but not the practice area. They probably stand out, but here long term relationships and networking really matter too.

The Lawyer ranks firms by revenue and profit per partner. I believe that UK firms are required to publish annual reports with this info. Still, those reports can give you a deeper view of their strategy beyond just financials.

Legal Cheek, Chambers Student and RollOnFriday are good sources for day to day insights from the trainees and associates. Also consider the UKLaw community at Reddit. I have seen interesting (anonymous) comments from people moving between firms or quitting private practice, including partners.

 

[trainee4u]

I don’t have much to add to Ram’s great response, but just a quick note to be mindful of how rankings are interpreted. A firm might be placed in Band 3 for a broader practice area but still hold a Band 1 position in a specific niche within that area - whether that’s regionally, globally, or based on sector expertise.

For instance, Clyde & Co is highly regarded for its global insurance practice, even if its ranking in broader corporate categories might differ. Similarly, Travers Smith is exceptionally strong in private equity M&A within the UK, even if it appears in a different band in more general corporate rankings.

The point I’m trying to make is that while band rankings are definitely useful and worth considering, they aren’t everything. It’s always helpful to look a bit deeper into what the rankings actually reflect.

yes.
i was looking at https://www.legal500.com/firms/903-devonshires-solicitors-llp/r-england/rankings

and it shows for London

Band 1 - Debt Recovery
Band 1 - Social housing: finance
Band 1 - Social housing: LAs and RPs

this might suggest similar capabilities in Debt Recovery and Social housing.

However, in reality 100+ of the firm's lawyers deal with social housing and only around four with debt recovery.

Therefore, the firm's competitors are in reality those that deal with Social Housing, and even within the "Debt Recovery" rankings, which are rather small, competitors don't always appear to be competing for the same clients. So just looking at rankings can give a totally distorted view of firm's revenue, especially also where it's a competitive area, and the firm is perhaps "band 2" for a certain practice area but in reality for that firm, that's its main practice area.

 

[Amma Usman]

yes.
i was looking at https://www.legal500.com/firms/903-devonshires-solicitors-llp/r-england/rankings

and it shows for London

Band 1 - Debt Recovery
Band 1 - Social housing: finance
Band 1 - Social housing: LAs and RPs

this might suggest similar capabilities in Debt Recovery and Social housing.

However, in reality 100+ of the firm's lawyers deal with social housing and only around four with debt recovery.

Therefore, the firm's competitors are in reality those that deal with Social Housing, and even within the "Debt Recovery" rankings, which are rather small, competitors don't always appear to be competing for the same clients. So just looking at rankings can give a totally distorted view of firm's revenue, especially also where it's a competitive area, and the firm is perhaps "band 2" for a certain practice area but in reality for that firm, that's its main practice area.

Exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. Well done! If you’re keen on identifying a law firm’s competitors too, I have linked this here to help - https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....to-identifying-a-law-firm’s-competitors.9422/

 

[trainee4u]

Exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. Well done! If you’re keen on identifying a law firm’s competitors too, I have linked this here to help - https://www.thecorporatelawacademy.com/forum/threads/guide-to-identifying-a-law-firm’s-competitors.9422/

that's a good guide; one thing I also did to better identify a firm's revenue and therefore its competitors is download the lawyers' profiles using a script into a spreadsheet with areas of expertise for each lawyer, which can then be easily summed (including also an AI-generated summary of their expertise and experience):


(this can still be a misleading as "dispute resolution" might well cover quite different areas of litigation)

 

[optimistic_undergrad]

That would be excellent news, really.

How so? Even if they haven't got as many applications as they might have expected, they'll still maintain their standards, right? So if not for your good performance, the selection has nothing to do with the number of applications imo.

 

[Tintin06]

How so? Even if they haven't got as many applications as they might have expected, they'll still maintain their standards, right? So if not for your good performance, the selection has nothing to do with the number of applications imo.

More chance of getting an interview?

 

[Rasma123]

I haven't heard from them either but it is true that it is application and then straight to AC if successful

Really? I thought the next stage would be a telephone interview for PMC?

 

[toad92]

Been putting off Kingsley Napley’s TC questions until today because wtf 🫠

Even went to have a coffee with a
mutual friend who’s a KN associate to talk about life at the firm etc, I told her the questions and as someone who obviously knows the clients and work they do, she was also puzzled lmao

New managing partner trying to get ideas for growth from its potential future trainees rather than its associates and partners? Interesting strategy 🤣

 

[optimistic_undergrad]

Been putting off Kingsley Napley’s TC questions until today because wtf 🫠

Even went to have a coffee with a
mutual friend who’s a KN associate to talk about life at the firm etc, I told her the questions and as someone who obviously knows the clients and work they do, she was also puzzled lmao

New managing partner trying to get ideas for growth from its potential future trainees rather than its associates and partners? Interesting strategy 🤣

The question in the DTC application of Baker McKenzie was of a similar nature, right?

 

[Anissa]

Has anyone heard anything from Withers for the DTC after the test?

I haven't even received the test, how long after applying have you received it ?