TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2024-5

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Here is an example of a trainee who was banned from the profession for lying about her reason for absence.

It is dishonest, which is a bar to working in the law:

Stephanie Merrill - 7008990

Control of non-qualified staff (section 43/99 order)

www.sra.org.uk

It was the subsequent doubling down on lying and faking documents that banned this individual. She was also caught out on the lie because her court case was in the public domain, something that wouldn’t be available if you were interviewing.

Pretty much every lawyer who has gone for an interview whilst working would be banned if this was something that happened all the time. Everyone in a long-term job lies about why they need time off to attend an interview while working, usually citing some form of other appointment like a doctors or dentist rather than calling in sick, and makes time up outside of working hours to do these things. However, some people take annual leave, especially if they are interviewing a lot. But they still lie about why they are having the time off.

The vacation scheme dynamic is slightly different given the short period of time you are with the firm, the inability to make time up in the same way you might be able to do in a long-term job (especially if you need a full day off for an AC) and because you are trying to convert. Firms are not stupid and know it is interview season too. That’s why it’s better to be upfront about why you’d need the time off rather than lying.

Firms can decline you having time off to attend an interview if you do request it though (like they could decline any request to have time off).

 

[ashwright]

Hi guys! Hope you're all enjoying a nice sunny Monday
Just a quick question on application strategies in general. In anticipation of the upcoming cycle, I'm hoping to create an 'application strategy' for myself. The TCLA's 8-week service looks fantastic but it's a bit out of my means atm sadly, so I'm hoping to DIY it for the moment.

Does anyone have any key post/resource recommendations that can guide me in building an application strategy? I've got Andrei's fantastic "A Guide to Building a Winning Application Strategy" as my North Star but wanted to check whether there are any other similar posts I can rely upon.
Any thoughts on how many apps are sensible to make, how to decide which firm to apply to etc. are very much welcomed

Thank you in advance!
(cc'ing the Avengers: @Amma Usman @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu)

 

[trainee4u]

It was the subsequent doubling down on lying and faking documents that banned this individual. She was also caught out on the lie because her court case was in the public domain, something that wouldn’t be available if you were interviewing.

Pretty much every lawyer who has gone for an interview whilst working would be banned if this was something that happened all the time. Everyone in a long-term job lies about why they need time off to attend an interview while working, usually citing some form of other appointment like a doctors or dentist rather than calling in sick, and makes time up outside of working hours to do these things. However, some people take annual leave, especially if they are interviewing a lot. But they still lie about why they are having the time off.

The vacation scheme dynamic is slightly different given the short period of time you are with the firm, the inability to make time up in the same way you might be able to do in a long-term job (especially if you need a full day off for an AC) and because you are trying to convert. Firms are not stupid and know it is interview season too. That’s why it’s better to be upfront about why you’d need the time off rather than lying.

Firms can decline you having time off to attend an interview if you do request it though (like they could decline any request to have time off).

There's a difference between permanent employment where you might provide an untrue cover story about why you are taking time off but still fulfil your contractual obligations, and being paid £500 for a week's work but only turning up for four days.

In the context of a 5-10 day vacation scheme, as you say, they will know what's up and discard you as dishonest and/or not committed.

I wasn't suggesting everyone who has ever lied will get struck off, just pointing out that dishonesty is a dealbreaker for entering the legal profession, and getting into the habit of it is a bad idea.

 

[legallybrunette8]

Is it worth mentioning to grad rec that you have a stutter during an AC? I don't want it to come off as an excuse as my stutter isn't terrible and just appears when I say certain words, but I also don't want it to be something which hinders me getting considered for the TC

 

[Eeeazyyy8]

Hi everyone! I’ve been anxiously waiting for BCLP to get back. Does anyone have any idea when they aim to get back to us?

 

[asplawyer100]

Has anyone heard back from Reed Smith for the direct TC?

 

[ashleystcjourney04]

I'm curious but has anyone heard of people that failed ACs because of being bad players in group exercises? How common are they? I feel they are quite pointless as I feel grad rec fails no one because of them, I'd be really curious to hear @Amma Usman and anyone else who is able to contribute

 

[gazdgazd11]

I'm curious but has anyone heard of people that failed ACs because of being bad players in group exercises? How common are they? I feel they are quite pointless as I feel grad rec fails no one because of them, I'd be really curious to hear @Amma Usman and anyone else who is able to contribute

I know people that failed ACs cause of that

 

[Amma Usman]

Is it worth mentioning to grad rec that you have a stutter during an AC? I don't want it to come off as an excuse as my stutter isn't terrible and just appears when I say certain words, but I also don't want it to be something which hinders me getting considered for the TC

It’s generally okay if you occasionally stumble over your words during an interview. That alone is very unlikely to lead to a straight and outright rejection. Many firms are aware that interviews can make even the most confident candidates nervous, and they often take that into account. In fact, they know that nerves typically fade once you're settled into a role, so a bit of hesitation in your speech isn’t a dealbreaker.

What tends to matter more is the overall clarity and structure of your answers. If your responses are still coherent, well-organised, and you’re clearly trying to convey your points thoughtfully, then you’re still on strong footing. This is especially true if your communication improves as the interview goes on or, in the context of an assessment centre, where they’ve had multiple chances to observe you in different settings. One moment of stumbling will likely be balanced out by stronger moments elsewhere.

I’ve been in situations where I felt I wasn’t articulating myself perfectly at first, but I focused on delivering more precise and composed responses as the interview progressed. As long as you’re adapting and giving yourself room to recover, it really doesn’t reflect poorly on you.

 

[zplookingforaTC]

Reed Smith VI🔥🔥🔥
🔥🔥🔥


Also just submitted macfarlanes too; good day for grinding HARD💪🏿

Annoying that slaughters is only law 😭😭😭

 

[Amma Usman]

I'm curious but has anyone heard of people that failed ACs because of being bad players in group exercises? How common are they? I feel they are quite pointless as I feel grad rec fails no one because of them, I'd be really curious to hear @Amma Usman and anyone else who is able to contribute

In my opinion, the main skill law firms, and even any organisation, are trying to test by placing group exercises is the extent to which you are a team player. How well you work in a team. From my perspective on this, it can be a real dealbreaker if you are set a task and are unable to work with your team and solve it together. You will find that it’s even sometimes better working in a team, as there’s more collective knowledge to utilise, ultimately helping your contribution be better. Taking turns to speak helps. If there’s also someone in your team that appears a bit shy or less engaged, offer to make them feel at home and involved by asking for their own thoughts on a matter. This not only improves your candidacy, but also makes them feel valued as a team member, which anyone would love to feel.

My overarching reason for saying all these is looking at the work law firms, and in fact virtually any successful profession, produces. All hinging on the collaborative effort of many people. Teamwork is what ensures the tough days are gone through quicker and more efficiently.

Feel free to let us know if you’ve got any more questions at all. This was a really good one.

 

[Amma Usman]

Reed Smith VI🔥🔥🔥
🔥🔥🔥


Also just submitted macfarlanes too; good day for grinding HARD💪🏿

Annoying that slaughters is only law 😭😭😭

Ayyyyyyy. Love this for you keep going xxxx

 

[amrita6399]

Reed Smith VI🔥🔥🔥
🔥🔥🔥


Also just submitted macfarlanes too; good day for grinding HARD💪🏿

Annoying that slaughters is only law 😭😭😭

Congratulations 🎉 🎉

When did you submit your Reed Smith Application?

Additionally, is MacFarlanes rolling basis?

 

[SamiyaJ]

Omg HFW AC!!! I forgot I even applied?! I applied in November lmao.

It’s a virtual AC, any tips/advice would be so appreciated!

 

[Tintin06]

I'm curious but has anyone heard of people that failed ACs because of being bad players in group exercises? How common are they? I feel they are quite pointless as I feel grad rec fails no one because of them, I'd be really curious to hear @Amma Usman and anyone else who is able to contribute

Yes, I've seen that happen before. Sometimes better to say less, truthfully. Shyness is forgive-able, domineering behaviour isn't. Negotiation exercises aren't a wrestling march. Ideally be easy to work with. Firms constantly work with each other.

 

[James Wakefield]

I'm curious but has anyone heard of people that failed ACs because of being bad players in group exercises? How common are they? I feel they are quite pointless as I feel grad rec fails no one because of them, I'd be really curious to hear @Amma Usman and anyone else who is able to contribute

I feel like a lot of people fall down on these and they’re actually a common reason for people not getting offers.

 

[LegallyStressedOut]

Orrick Watson glaser invite ✅

 

[trainee4u]

I'm curious but has anyone heard of people that failed ACs because of being bad players in group exercises? How common are they? I feel they are quite pointless as I feel grad rec fails no one because of them, I'd be really curious to hear @Amma Usman and anyone else who is able to contribute

100%.

For example an online group exercise that I did was about the green belt. The instructions were to NOT do background research

As it happened people were mistaken in their understanding of green belt, which is specifically about defined 'belts' around about half-a-dozen named cities , and NOT 'the countryside' in general. So there were people basically talking rubbish about the green belt, but the problem was that there were specific instructions to perform the task in two halfs with specific cut-off times, and if you, as I, were blathering on worrying about the facts instead of trying to bring the task to a conclusion, you'd fail and get rejected.

This particular group exercise was directly run by the firm, and there was no one-to-one interview, so absolutely they were rejecting people based on poor group skills

 

[Tintin06]

Reed Smith VI🔥🔥🔥
🔥🔥🔥


Also just submitted macfarlanes too; good day for grinding HARD💪🏿

Annoying that slaughters is only law 😭😭😭

What’s the deadline for the VI? I’ve also applied for their TC. Congrats on getting to that stage.

 

[zplookingforaTC]

What’s the deadline for the VI? I’ve also applied for their TC. Congrats on getting to that stage.

Congratulations 🎉 🎉

When did you submit your Reed Smith Application?

Additionally, is MacFarlanes rolling basis?

A few weeks back I applied for RS and I have till next Monday my friends💪🏿