TCLA General Discussion Thread #2 (2021)

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Holly

Legendary Member
Forum Winner
Nov 23, 2019
327
424
Really pleased to confirm that I received a TC offer after four/five years of applications.

Special thanks to @Jessica Booker for nominating me as Forum Winner in January which allowed me to gain access to free premium membership for a month. My commercial awareness was good but it became *great* after using the premium materials. Before using premium, I had attended 7 interviews and only converted one. After using premium, I had 2 interviews and converted both into vacation schemes.

I highly recommend using premium if you’re hoping to improve your applications, interview technique or commercial awareness. It would make a great birthday gift if you have a birthday coming up or it’s just a great investment worth saving up for.

Wishing you all the best with your applications in the upcoming cycle. Happy to answer any questions if you PM me. TCLA is such a great forum, thank you @Jaysen and the rest of the team for making it what it is today.
 

Andrew M

Legendary Member
Forum Winner
Jan 7, 2020
517
2,027
Really needing some support and motivation here. I got two vacation schemes this year (sort of). Firm 1 (F1) I had a cancelled vacation scheme last year that was moved to spring this year. Firm 2 (F2) was a direct-TC application last year and after the final stage assessment in Spring this year (delayed from last summer due to Covid) they invited me to a vacation scheme instead.
After my vacation scheme with F1 they said I needed to complete a separate application for the TC, which I did and completed the AC and got invited to the final partner interview. Two days before the interview, I fell really unwell but went anyway, cocked it up entirely. I emailed later on to explain that I was unwell (in hospital) but was told I was unsuccessful. F2 had a one day vacation scheme, I sat in on a couple of meetings (wasn't briefed on anything before the meetings) and was sent some documents to read over and had a chat with some trainees - they didn't ask me to do any work or anything. I was told on a few occasions that I wasn't being assessed and that this day was an opportunity for me to get to know the firm (it was entirely online). I was still unwell. At the end of the day, the partner overseeing my "vacation scheme" (who organised which meetings I would be in but I didn't actually speak to them on a call or anything) said in an email that I wasn't being offered a TC and "there's no need for us to speak again". I've just been discharged from hospital now, after two months being ill, and had been told I had encephalitis and intracranial hypertension. I feel like I powered through on these two days for absolutely nothing and spent so much time and effort and energy on their application processes just to have this completely thrown away. Both firms have declined to give me feedback even though I was on the very final stage of the process - one firm I know I messed up (I was barely conscious) but the other is baffling (how could I have messed up shadowing a meeting virtually whilst "not being assessed"?).
I already have a graduate level job and would be taking a pay cut to be a trainee, but I hate my job and have wanted to be a lawyer for as long as I can remember. I feel like every time I get anywhere, it gets fucked up at the last moment - this is my third cycle (in my first cycle I was hospitalised November-June and really unwell, I fell over in a final stage interview and messed that up. In my second cycle, I secured two vacation schemes, one was cancelled entirely and one was postponed to this year. And this year, I had two strong leads and messed it all up at the last minute). The thought of starting the whole thing again next cycle is killing me - how long do I stick it out before realising this is never going to happen for me?
Wow, that sounds SO unlucky! But the one big positive is that you've gotten right to the end of the process a few times now, so you obviously have what it takes. You've just had a bit of rotten luck in those final moments. I totally understand why you're frustrated and demotivated, but if this is something you do really want then I'd suggest taking a little breather and giving it one more go next year. Ultimately it is a numbers game and every no brings you closer to a yes.
 

Jessica Booker

Legendary Member
Graduate Recruitment
Premium Member
Forum Team
Aug 1, 2019
9,232
13,779
Hiiiii PFO from S+M, did kind of expect it just because it was my dream firm (always better to expect rejection in my case, that way I get on and persevere more quickly).
anyway, I applied for the direct TC, and it says online that if I apply again it is unlikely to be accepted/positive unless there has been major changes to my application.
now, I have two questions -
1. What exactly do they mean by major changes? - a job, masters, more experience, or just a better application?
2. Will I be able to apply for the VS? Or will I not be able to without this ‘significant improvement’? I didn’t apply for the VS this year as I wasn’t in the right mindset and wanted to improve my app for the TC instead).
Thanks so much!!!
1) probably a combination of couple of those factors

2) I think you’d still need the significant improvement, if you were eligible for the internship.
 

Hele25

Legendary Member
Premium Member
Jan 5, 2021
180
607
1) probably a combination of couple of those factors

2) I think you’d still need the significant improvement, if you were eligible for the internship.
Thanks Jess 🙌🏻
Kind of feel like I’ve shot myself in the foot for applying for the TC and not just waiting for next cycle of VS apps, where they potentially may have given a chance to someone like me who isn’t a super sure bet (career changer/not so great a-levels)! Oh well, on to the next round!
 

karinny

Distinguished Member
Junior Lawyer
  • Mar 17, 2021
    55
    138
    I was wondering if anyone has had their firm reimburse you for your LPC fees after you completed it and already paid the fees yourself?

    My firm has been very generous to offer to reimburse me for the fees I have already paid (as I recently finished my LPC) and they only briefly mentioned it in a call. If anyone has had this before or heard of this before and let me know how the process is I would be grateful. I was completely unknown that firms would do this, I only thought they would pay for your fees if you had obtained a TC before starting the LPC.

    For reference, I did the LPC and additional LLM for government loans so around £11k of my LPC fees were paid by by loans but the rest were paid for by myself.
     

    Dheepa

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Future Trainee
    TCLA Moderator
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    M&A Bootcamp
    Junior Lawyer 43
  • Jan 20, 2019
    853
    2,121
    Really pleased to confirm that I received a TC offer after four/five years of applications.

    Special thanks to @Jessica Booker for nominating me as Forum Winner in January which allowed me to gain access to free premium membership for a month. My commercial awareness was good but it became *great* after using the premium materials. Before using premium, I had attended 7 interviews and only converted one. After using premium, I had 2 interviews and converted both into vacation schemes.

    I highly recommend using premium if you’re hoping to improve your applications, interview technique or commercial awareness. It would make a great birthday gift if you have a birthday coming up or it’s just a great investment worth saving up for.

    Wishing you all the best with your applications in the upcoming cycle. Happy to answer any questions if you PM me. TCLA is such a great forum, thank you @Jaysen and the rest of the team for making it what it is today.
    Congratulations Holly!!! So well deserved!!
     
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    Dheepa

    Legendary Member
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    Junior Lawyer 43
  • Jan 20, 2019
    853
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    Thank you guys! So would it be right if I said something like:

    "I've been following the 'meme-stock' craze that started early this year, zoning in on the AMC stock. This was when retail investors boosted up the stock price of the soon-to-be-bust cinema franchise. This was short-lived though as AMC's share price plunged in June; despite the increased revenue and profits. The AMC situation underscored the rise of retail investors and their increased power within the stock market. It was a novel situation, with institutional investors having had such a tight hold on to the market for so long. However, this was not bound to last. The demise of AMC is reflected in other so called 'meme stocks'- Gamestop also observed a lost in the recent quarter and Robinhood, who recently had a failed IPO, have had the 'meme stock' labelled tacked onto it. In the long term, it is unlikely that meme stocks will thrive or even survive. Institutional investors are still very powerful and retain their larger sway on the market. However, it is refreshing to see laymen enter the stock market, despite their failed attempts at challenging the incumbents."

    Very bad summary/shallow analysis since I have had such a long day but would such a structure be fine?
    In principal this structure should be fine, but when you do actually write your apps try to keep things even more organised with pointers like “Firstly, Secondly” etc. It’s actually very difficult to follow someone’s train of thought when it comes to commercial topics so the pointers help. Also, when you talk about broader commercial trends - focus on the trends that would be most relevant to law firm clients. In this case it would be the institutional investors and brokerage firms (as you identified) rather than the retail investors so I would focus your analysis on the former rather than the latter. Hope that helps! :)
     

    Jaysen

    Founder, TCLA
    Staff member
    TCLA Moderator
    Gold Member
    Premium Member
    M&A Bootcamp
  • Feb 17, 2018
    4,362
    7,755
    Really pleased to confirm that I received a TC offer after four/five years of applications.

    Special thanks to @Jessica Booker for nominating me as Forum Winner in January which allowed me to gain access to free premium membership for a month. My commercial awareness was good but it became *great* after using the premium materials. Before using premium, I had attended 7 interviews and only converted one. After using premium, I had 2 interviews and converted both into vacation schemes.

    I highly recommend using premium if you’re hoping to improve your applications, interview technique or commercial awareness. It would make a great birthday gift if you have a birthday coming up or it’s just a great investment worth saving up for.

    Wishing you all the best with your applications in the upcoming cycle. Happy to answer any questions if you PM me. TCLA is such a great forum, thank you @Jaysen and the rest of the team for making it what it is today.

    Ah I'm so delighted to you - it's thoroughly deserved. Well done :)!
     
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    Jessica Booker

    Legendary Member
    Graduate Recruitment
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
    9,232
    13,779
    I was wondering if anyone has had their firm reimburse you for your LPC fees after you completed it and already paid the fees yourself?

    My firm has been very generous to offer to reimburse me for the fees I have already paid (as I recently finished my LPC) and they only briefly mentioned it in a call. If anyone has had this before or heard of this before and let me know how the process is I would be grateful. I was completely unknown that firms would do this, I only thought they would pay for your fees if you had obtained a TC before starting the LPC.

    For reference, I did the LPC and additional LLM for government loans so around £11k of my LPC fees were paid by by loans but the rest were paid for by myself.
    I used to do this for a number of the firms I worked for - a couple of firms did it for the LPC and GDL - was nice preparing cheques for tens of thousands of pounds 😂.

    You’ll probably just need to provide proof of purchase/receipt. The firm may only reimburse you what they would have paid for their course though - some firms get a preferential rate with providers which can be 20-30% less than what an individual could be paying for a course.

    What you paid by loan still counts (as ultimately you have still had to pay for it), so just provide the firm will the full costs you have paid and ask them to provide a bit more context as to what specifically will be paid, how and when. The firm won’t mind you asking this at all - all common questions they are used to getting.

    Obviously only do all this once you have signed your contract and willing to commit to the firm though!
     
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    Jessica Booker

    Legendary Member
    Graduate Recruitment
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
    9,232
    13,779
    Really pleased to confirm that I received a TC offer after four/five years of applications.

    Special thanks to @Jessica Booker for nominating me as Forum Winner in January which allowed me to gain access to free premium membership for a month. My commercial awareness was good but it became *great* after using the premium materials. Before using premium, I had attended 7 interviews and only converted one. After using premium, I had 2 interviews and converted both into vacation schemes.

    I highly recommend using premium if you’re hoping to improve your applications, interview technique or commercial awareness. It would make a great birthday gift if you have a birthday coming up or it’s just a great investment worth saving up for.

    Wishing you all the best with your applications in the upcoming cycle. Happy to answer any questions if you PM me. TCLA is such a great forum, thank you @Jaysen and the rest of the team for making it what it is today.
    How did I miss this?!

    This is amazing news - so glad that you found premium helpful. You thoroughly deserved it as your posts have been so helpful to the wider TCLA community. I think this really shows how we can all play a part in helping each other and ourselves succeed!

    Congratulations on the offer (and here is the obligatory GIF to celebrate)

    Amazing Season 6 GIF by Bachelor in Paradise
     

    Legally brown

    Distinguished Member
    Dec 6, 2020
    61
    180
    Hey I was hoping to get some guidance on this.

    So I have applied for a tc and I have just finished second year. When I submitted my applications I was still yet to receive my results. However, since I did a 15 credit module in first term of second year, I was aware of my grade and I sent that in. On results day, I received most of my module results except for two modules.

    Post results day I was informed my marker had not finished marking my courseworks for two modules. Nevertheless I was still sent my transcript which now reads as me “failing” those two modules. This will change however once the marker finishes with my work.

    The firms I have applied to do not allow me to make changes to the applications I have sent. So is it advisable to send them some of my grades that I received? Do I wait till my marker has finished marking my work, and then notify the firm with my full results of second year?

    I do not want the firm to think I am acting dishonestly. And at the time of submission I was unaware of my grades- might they take that into account?

    I realise that this question is more tailored to @Jessica Booker ’s expertise, but any guidance would be appreciated!!
     
    In principal this structure should be fine, but when you do actually write your apps try to keep things even more organised with pointers like “Firstly, Secondly” etc. It’s actually very difficult to follow someone’s train of thought when it comes to commercial topics so the pointers help. Also, when you talk about broader commercial trends - focus on the trends that would be most relevant to law firm clients. In this case it would be the institutional investors and brokerage firms (as you identified) rather than the retail investors so I would focus your analysis on the former rather than the latter. Hope that helps! :)
    Thank you Dheepa! This was extremely helpful.
     

    Jessica Booker

    Legendary Member
    Graduate Recruitment
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
    9,232
    13,779
    Hey I was hoping to get some guidance on this.

    So I have applied for a tc and I have just finished second year. When I submitted my applications I was still yet to receive my results. However, since I did a 15 credit module in first term of second year, I was aware of my grade and I sent that in. On results day, I received most of my module results except for two modules.

    Post results day I was informed my marker had not finished marking my courseworks for two modules. Nevertheless I was still sent my transcript which now reads as me “failing” those two modules. This will change however once the marker finishes with my work.

    The firms I have applied to do not allow me to make changes to the applications I have sent. So is it advisable to send them some of my grades that I received? Do I wait till my marker has finished marking my work, and then notify the firm with my full results of second year?

    I do not want the firm to think I am acting dishonestly. And at the time of submission I was unaware of my grades- might they take that into account?

    I realise that this question is more tailored to @Jessica Booker ’s expertise, but any guidance would be appreciated!!
    You can update the firm as to your grades via email. How much they take it into account is very much down to the firm. You can just state you are waiting for your other modules to be marked.
     
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    Jessica Booker

    Legendary Member
    Graduate Recruitment
    Premium Member
    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
    9,232
    13,779
    So you would recommend me informing the firms ASAP about my results then? (Sorry I am just trying to understand 100%)
    If you want to. I don’t think it is necessary, but there is no harm in doing it either. There’s no point going into the detail of the failure aspects just down to the lack of marking though.
     
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    Kablahc

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Winner
  • Aug 31, 2020
    242
    829
    Bit of a long shot posting this here but for some reason the future trainees forum isn't working for me - is anyone here planning to do LPC in September 2022 at BPP Bristol / has been to BPP Bristol? If so, how is it? Would London Holborn be a better choice or does it not matter at all?
     

    Jacob Miller

    Legendary Member
    Future Trainee
    Forum Team
  • Feb 15, 2020
    897
    2,363
    Really needing some support and motivation here. I got two vacation schemes this year (sort of). Firm 1 (F1) I had a cancelled vacation scheme last year that was moved to spring this year. Firm 2 (F2) was a direct-TC application last year and after the final stage assessment in Spring this year (delayed from last summer due to Covid) they invited me to a vacation scheme instead.
    After my vacation scheme with F1 they said I needed to complete a separate application for the TC, which I did and completed the AC and got invited to the final partner interview. Two days before the interview, I fell really unwell but went anyway, cocked it up entirely. I emailed later on to explain that I was unwell (in hospital) but was told I was unsuccessful. F2 had a one day vacation scheme, I sat in on a couple of meetings (wasn't briefed on anything before the meetings) and was sent some documents to read over and had a chat with some trainees - they didn't ask me to do any work or anything. I was told on a few occasions that I wasn't being assessed and that this day was an opportunity for me to get to know the firm (it was entirely online). I was still unwell. At the end of the day, the partner overseeing my "vacation scheme" (who organised which meetings I would be in but I didn't actually speak to them on a call or anything) said in an email that I wasn't being offered a TC and "there's no need for us to speak again". I've just been discharged from hospital now, after two months being ill, and had been told I had encephalitis and intracranial hypertension. I feel like I powered through on these two days for absolutely nothing and spent so much time and effort and energy on their application processes just to have this completely thrown away. Both firms have declined to give me feedback even though I was on the very final stage of the process - one firm I know I messed up (I was barely conscious) but the other is baffling (how could I have messed up shadowing a meeting virtually whilst "not being assessed"?).
    I already have a graduate level job and would be taking a pay cut to be a trainee, but I hate my job and have wanted to be a lawyer for as long as I can remember. I feel like every time I get anywhere, it gets fucked up at the last moment - this is my third cycle (in my first cycle I was hospitalised November-June and really unwell, I fell over in a final stage interview and messed that up. In my second cycle, I secured two vacation schemes, one was cancelled entirely and one was postponed to this year. And this year, I had two strong leads and messed it all up at the last minute). The thought of starting the whole thing again next cycle is killing me - how long do I stick it out before realising this is never going to happen for me?

    Talking with some personal experience of the "really ill and shouldn't have gone to interview but did anyway and it all went pear-shaped" situation, I can completely, 100% empathise here.

    When you're in the midst of a situation like that, decision making and prioritisation become extremely hard and blurry, so all the reasons you probably had for going to the interviews/ schemes etc totally make sense to me.

    Ultimately, there's nothing you can now do to "go back" and undo what's been done; as hard as it is, try not to obsess over what could have been or your decision making, and try to put it down to experience and know that, in the future, it is likely to actually be better in the long run to admit when you're unwell and take time out. Ultimately, a firm can't really consider it contextually in retrospect, so, although it's a horrible situation to have been in, it's ultimately something you can look to learn from.

    For what it's worth, it does sound as though the person coordinating your experience in firm two has dealt with things rather brutally; though there are people i know personally who have been told they're "not being assessed" on certain things and they were then rejected for XYZ based on that thing they were told they weren't being assessed on. Again, although I think that's the wrong way for a firm to approach it, you can take from your experience that it's probably better to err on the side of caution and assume you're always being assessed.

    I'm also aware, though, that these "teachable moments" are all very well, but aren't exactly what you want to read at the minute - so come back to them in a few days or weeks when the wounds are less raw. Right now, it's 100% understandable that you're upset, but tbat doesn't even begin to mean that this pathway isn't for you, or anything of the sort.

    Nobody is born with the knowledge of how to get into a commercial law firm. Everyone has to learn, and (in my opinion) we often learn from past experience more than anything else. When you feel more settled and it's all a bit less emotionally charged than it is at the minute, you'll actually realise the amount you've learned from these experiences - even though they weren't good at the time.

    I've every faith that you'll get there, you clearly want it enough and you've came back cycle after cycle to get there. Now isn't the time to drop all that; the time and effort has only been wasted if you let this get the better of you and don't come fighting back.
     
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    Andrew M

    Legendary Member
    Forum Winner
    Jan 7, 2020
    517
    2,027
    Bit of a long shot posting this here but for some reason the future trainees forum isn't working for me - is anyone here planning to do LPC in September 2022 at BPP Bristol / has been to BPP Bristol? If so, how is it? Would London Holborn be a better choice or does it not matter at all?
    Funnily enough I spent a week in Bristol last week and we had breakfast by the BPP campus every morning. 😂

    Given that you've already secured a TC and won't have to worry about attending events and interviews etc, I'd just go wherever you would prefer to be.
     
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    StudentOfLaw21

    Active Member
    Apr 3, 2021
    16
    62
    I have been invited to an interview with BCLP for a legal assistant role. Does anyone have any advice? I am a career changer, so although I have work experience, it's not legal work experience. I'm desperately seeking entry-level positions now that I'm near completing my LPC - any tips for this interview?
     
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