TCLA General Discussion Thread #2 (2021)

[liverpoollawyer]

I have an interview on Wednesday with a firm that I interviewed with last year but unfortunately was not offered a tc. I completed a vac scheme with another firm two weeks ago now and have reached the final stages with them. If the firm on Wednesday ask where else I have applied/if I have completed any other schemes, how much detail should I go into?

 

[Dheepa]

I have an interview on Wednesday with a firm that I interviewed with last year but unfortunately was not offered a tc. I completed a vac scheme with another firm two weeks ago now and have reached the final stages with them. If the firm on Wednesday ask where else I have applied/if I have completed any other schemes, how much detail should I go into?

The firm will expect you to have applied elsewhere since they rejected you - so definitely explain that you have completed a VS at another firm and applied to several other firms. I also think the more detail you provide the better. Ultimately you need to give the firm a strong enough reason to believe you have really thought about why you want to train there and that you have truly improved as a candidate since the rejection. I think you should be prepared to include three things in your answer:

1. A common thread behind the other firms that you have applied to and this one - this should be something like all these firms doing similar kinds of work or having strong practices in areas you're interested in. This will show you're certain about the career, have done your research and aren't just haphazardly applying to anywhere that will take you.
2. Explain what you learnt from the new VS, what you liked and didn't necessarily enjoy as much. Frame your answer so it comes across like you'd rather train at this firm. An effective way to do this would probably be to compare both VS experiences.

More generally (doesn't have to be brought up in the "Where else have you applied to?" answer), you'd also need to be able to explain to the firm how since their rejection you've worked on any post-rejection feedback they've given you and actively taken steps to address it. I'd go into as much detail as possible about exactly what you did to improve yourself.

Hope that helps!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

PE should be seen as an industry that the firms acts within - like Oil & Gas, Projects, Chemicals, or Real Estate. M&A should be seen as a service that the firm provides, like debt finance or litigation. Services cater towards industry, which is of course broad. So, PE is not a form of M&A, but rather M&A is a service provided within the industry of PE.

Thank you for this really insightful advice.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

I completely agree with what @Kola has said here. I think that's a phenomenal explanation.

While PE houses often engage in M&A work, I think it's slightly back-to-front to say abstractly that PE = M&A. I would really encourage you to see them as separate and distinct: PE work has so many nuances and requires real specialists that not every M&A lawyer could manage a deal for a PE house.

The other thing to remember (on a more basic level) is that M&A does stand for Mergers and Acquisitions. In my mind, that's a bit of a misnomer for most PE work which is almost invariably focussed on partial or full-stake acquisitions.

In any case, I dont want to wildly overcomplicate things, so would reiterate Kola's point to consider PE an industry focus which will use specialist transactional-focussed teams.

I love this detailed response thank you very much it has been really helpful.

 

[liverpoollawyer]

The firm will expect you to have applied elsewhere since they rejected you - so definitely explain that you have completed a VS at another firm and applied to several other firms. I also think the more detail you provide the better. Ultimately you need to give the firm a strong enough reason to believe you have really thought about why you want to train there and that you have truly improved as a candidate since the rejection. I think you should be prepared to include three things in your answer:

1. A common thread behind the other firms that you have applied to and this one - this should be something like all these firms doing similar kinds of work or having strong practices in areas you're interested in. This will show you're certain about the career, have done your research and aren't just haphazardly applying to anywhere that will take you.
2. Explain what you learnt from the new VS, what you liked and didn't necessarily enjoy as much. Frame your answer so it comes across like you'd rather train at this firm. An effective way to do this would probably be to compare both VS experiences.

More generally (doesn't have to be brought up in the "Where else have you applied to?" answer), you'd also need to be able to explain to the firm how since their rejection you've worked on any post-rejection feedback they've given you and actively taken steps to address it. I'd go into as much detail as possible about exactly what you did to improve yourself.

Hope that helps!

Thank you so much for such a detailed response!

 

[h2020]

I've got my first interview for a DR paralegal. Does anyone have any tips?

 

[Daniel Boden]

PE should be seen as an industry that the firms acts within - like Oil & Gas, Projects, Chemicals, or Real Estate. M&A should be seen as a service that the firm provides, like debt finance or litigation. Services cater towards industry, which is of course broad. So, PE is not a form of M&A, but rather M&A is a service provided within the industry of PE.

Extremely well said! Couldn't have put it better myself

 

[breadpitt]

I've just tested positive for Covid, but I'm also currently doing a virtual VS. Do you think it's worth letting grad rec know?

Not sure if I'm symptomatic - hasn't kicked in yet.

 

[Etudierlaw2022]

I've just tested positive for Covid, but I'm also currently doing a virtual VS. Do you think it's worth letting grad rec know?

Not sure if I'm symptomatic - hasn't kicked in yet.

I don't think it would hurt to flag it up with them, in case you do feel so ill you can't participate. Better to let them know earlier rather than wait until you feel so awful you have to sit out an important day. They would probably question why you didn't let them know sooner tbh.

I'm sure they will be accommodating should you feel like you can't do an assessment on a certain day, etc.

Hopefully you remain asymptomatic/that it's only mild!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I've just tested positive for Covid, but I'm also currently doing a virtual VS. Do you think it's worth letting grad rec know?

Not sure if I'm symptomatic - hasn't kicked in yet.

Yes - worthwhile letting them know anyway even if it means you can carry on with the scheme virtually.

 

[breadpitt]

Thank you both!

 

[wolvesckm]

Does anyone know what technical questions could be asked in an interview? I have 2 interviews coming up, 1 is a paralegal role and the other is for a TC so any advice/guidance would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Dwight]

Hi,

@Jessica Booker @Daniel Boden @Dheepa @Jacob Miller
@Jaysen

Can someone please help - this is URGENT!!

How would you suggest I go about an ethical/moral question like the following: Would you represent an unethical client and what would be your particular role in this? I know the firm I will be interviewing have previously asked: would you agree to do work with North Korea/represent Donald Trump? Just wondering how I should approach this considering these are very controversial questions.

Thanks

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi,

@Jessica Booker @Daniel Boden @Dheepa @Jacob Miller
@Jaysen

Can someone please help - this is URGENT!!

How would you suggest I go about an ethical/moral question like the following: Would you represent an unethical client and what would be your particular role in this? I know the firm I will be interviewing have previously asked: would you agree to do work with North Korea/represent Donald Trump? Just wondering how I should approach this considering these are very controversial questions.

Thanks

We covered how to deal with these type of questions in our webinar last Friday.

They aren’t really controversial questions. They are questions that will come up in your career. Not every client is going to be the type of client you personally may want to represent.

Listen carefully to the question though. There will be variations of it - your answer is going to be different if it is your personal view or whether it is something the firm should do.

A few thing you may want to consider that we discusssd in the seminar:

- Why would a law firm ever consider refusing to represent a client?
- What rules are law firms bound by?
What damage could a firm suffer by either representing or refusing to represent a client?

 

[Kola]

Hi,

@Jessica Booker @Daniel Boden @Dheepa @Jacob Miller
@Jaysen

Can someone please help - this is URGENT!!

How would you suggest I go about an ethical/moral question like the following: Would you represent an unethical client and what would be your particular role in this? I know the firm I will be interviewing have previously asked: would you agree to do work with North Korea/represent Donald Trump? Just wondering how I should approach this considering these are very controversial questions.

Thanks

Jones Day by any chance?

 

[CJCH]

We covered how to deal with these type of questions in our webinar last Friday.

They aren’t really controversial questions. They are questions that will come up in your career. Not every client is going to be the type of client you personally may want to represent.

Listen carefully to the question though. There will be variations of it - your answer is going to be different if it is your personal view or whether it is something the firm should do.

A few thing you may want to consider that we discusssd in the seminar:

- Why would a law firm ever consider refusing to represent a client?
- What rules are law firms bound by?
What damage could a firm suffer by either representing or refusing to represent a client?

May I know if the recorded version of this webinar is available yet?

 

[HorsesForCoursesNeighNeighNeigh]

Hi,

@Jessica Booker @Daniel Boden @Dheepa @Jacob Miller
@Jaysen

Can someone please help - this is URGENT!!

How would you suggest I go about an ethical/moral question like the following: Would you represent an unethical client and what would be your particular role in this? I know the firm I will be interviewing have previously asked: would you agree to do work with North Korea/represent Donald Trump? Just wondering how I should approach this considering these are very controversial questions.

Thanks

I've been asked this question in multiple interviews, however my current career often involves a much more extreme version of this issue so we usually end up talking about that!

I wasn't asked about that with Jones Day, though they do represent Trump 😂 but have done work with some very unsavoury governments and government figures (WAY way more than Trump TBH). I think it depends on how they ask the question and what avenues they want to explore.

I work in politics and have strong views of my own but work with the whole spectrum--I talked about the need to be professional and the difference between working with a client vs choosing who to vote for. I also talked about work I used to do in armaments, colleagues who worked in the tobacco industry, etc. and how moral views would often differ to employers. And how this needs to be squared internally, or find a different career! How it's a balance--if working only for those you really believe in is important to you, then in reality you need to go freelance or find a company with that outlook and accept the very different options available to you.

I also spoke about law firm branding and reputation, how my biggest concern if asked to do work I considered iffy would be blowback on the firm. This obviously depends hugely on the law firm and their outlook--i.e. if the work is potentially majorly damaging to them reputationally or likely to attract significant press coverage. In which case I might highlight this as a concern, although I would expect such a decision to already have been taken at a higher level.

Obviously of course also not going to do anything illegal or that could put my ability to practice law at risk, always stick clearly to code of conduct.

I also mentioned times I had had to deal with particularly unsavoury figures through work--politicians who were deeply opposed to my background group (sorry keeping it vague) who decided to make jokes about this repeatedly during meetings (not realising my background). This was quite an interesting chat with interviewers--I said basically that I have a thick skin for those things myself and was able to roll my eyes (on the phone!) but that morally I would have felt different for a colleague, and would not expect them to put up with this indignity from a client. In which case I would have asked the client to refrain from this.

So basically--I said in reality I'm a pragmatist, I actually have very strong views but choose to work in industries where clients are not always who you would vote for. Hope that gives you some ideas!

 

[Jacob Miller]

I've got my first interview for a DR paralegal. Does anyone have any tips?

Congratulations on securing the interview!

I think the same broad principles apply as a VS or TC interview, largely. Know the firm, know the role, know why you're a good match and be prepared to justify that. Understand what paralegals do in that firm - the paralegal role is more fluid and less consistent firm-to-firm, department-to-department. Try and learn as much as you can about the role where you're applying for, and that's pretty much half the battle.

 

[Jacob Miller]

Does anyone know what technical questions could be asked in an interview? I have 2 interviews coming up, 1 is a paralegal role and the other is for a TC so any advice/guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Can you expand a little on what you mean by 'technical questions'? That's a very broad church so it will be easier to provide specific advice with some more detail.

 

[aspiringlawyer004]

Hi all,
Do you think I can reference a vacation scheme being cancelled last year as an example of resilience? It was disappointing for me and I have bounced back by reapplying this year, but I am worried that it will look bad because I failed to secure the TC.