TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

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iolitelegal

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Jan 16, 2022
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It is definitely good to proofread, but at a certain point I would not stress too much about it! Once you have confirmed that there are no errors and that it broadly reads well, then the hours you spend refining one piece of phrasing probably will not make a differen
8 hours to proof read one application?! That seems rather overboard. I don’t think I’ve ever spent that proofreading masters essays of 7.5-10k words let alone an app with maybe 1-2k words 😂
Yeah, that's too much. Proofreading is a short exercise that ensures your work is free of errors, you shouldn't be looking to redesign your answer imo.
 

JSM123

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Oct 11, 2021
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I'm currently practicing as an analyst and wish to convert. I'm doing my applications around my current role (which is highly stressful) and it's a walk in the park compared, but that's just my view. I've been to hell and back before, so I guess I must just be used to it.
I think this is a bit of a simplification. There is a clear financial privilege in being a career changer from a well-paid role like an analyst that it can be for many low-income law applicants who are doing stressful applications at the same time as facing a huge amount of uncertainty over their future career and life. A lot of the pressure I've personally felt has not been with the applications themselves but the constant worry over what will I do if I don't get one? I think putting things in perspective and not constantly stressing yourself out is important but I think people can have very legitimate fears in the application stage that may be significantly reduced if they begin practicing.
 

ssolicitorz

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Aug 3, 2021
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I think this is a bit of a simplification. There is a clear financial privilege in being a career changer from a well-paid role like an analyst that it can be for many low-income law applicants who are doing stressful applications at the same time as facing a huge amount of uncertainty over their future career and life. A lot of the pressure I've personally felt has not been with the applications themselves but the constant worry over what will I do if I don't get one? I think putting things in perspective and not constantly stressing yourself out is important but I think people can have very legitimate fears in the application stage that may be significantly reduced if they begin practicing.
Definitely agree with this- my stress isn't about the applications but more about what happens if I don't get a training contract. Being an international student in my final year, it would potentially become even more difficult as firms won't sponsor visas for vacation schemes and many law firms only accept TC applications through vacation schemes. While I am Canadian and can enter the UK without a visa, I can't work here so I really am limited with my options once my tier 4 visa expires in October.... ofc there is the graduate visa but that's pretty expensive to even apply for
 

iolitelegal

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2022
23
37
I think this is a bit of a simplification. There is a clear financial privilege in being a career changer from a well-paid role like an analyst that it can be for many low-income law applicants who are doing stressful applications at the same time as facing a huge amount of uncertainty over their future career and life. A lot of the pressure I've personally felt has not been with the applications themselves but the constant worry over what will I do if I don't get one? I think putting things in perspective and not constantly stressing yourself out is important but I think people can have very legitimate fears in the application stage that may be significantly reduced if they begin practicing.
This is a very presumptive response.
 

JSM123

Star Member
Oct 11, 2021
35
156
Apologies if it came off presumptive - I don't assume you haven't come from a low-income background or that you haven't worked very hard / in a competitive way to get your role. But I don't think your experience can be perfectly analogous to the situations some applications find themselves in and how they may be perfectly able to handle stress in their future role in practice as compared to the stress they feel in the application stages.
 

Rob93

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Dec 29, 2020
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I'm probably going to sound stupid rn but how relevant is the metaverse concept to law firms? Because it's off going to have a lot of legal issues which underpin it as it begins but will law firms develop specific niches in this type of law? or would it come under something broader like technology or maybe alongside NFT type stuff? I've also noticed virtually no law firms have wrote or published anything about it which indicates what their approach will be to such a thing. sorry if I sound stupid again, this is not my area of expertise!!!
It will be interesting if and when people increasingly spend large sums of money on digital property, essentially extending the current NFT use-cases or perhaps branching into different ownership models. I'm not sure how niche the practices will become, it will likely sit within broader 'digital economy' groups or similar for the foreseeable future.
 
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therealellewoods

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  • Jan 20, 2022
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    It will be interesting if and when people increasingly spend large sums of money on digital property, essentially extending the current NFT use-cases or perhaps branching into different ownership models. I'm not sure how niche the practices will become, it will likely sit within broader 'digital economy' groups or similar for the foreseeable future.

    Thank you!!! Really helpful - as always :)
     

    Lumree

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    I'm probably going to sound stupid rn but how relevant is the metaverse concept to law firms? Because it's off going to have a lot of legal issues which underpin it as it begins but will law firms develop specific niches in this type of law? or would it come under something broader like technology or maybe alongside NFT type stuff? I've also noticed virtually no law firms have wrote or published anything about it which indicates what their approach will be to such a thing. sorry if I sound stupid again, this is not my area of expertise!!!
    This is an interesting read: https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com...a1abb9f/nfts-and-intellectual-property-rights

    TLDR; NFTs spring up a lot of copyright debates and IP exploitation that lawyers will be involved in!
     

    Rob93

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    Dec 29, 2020
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    How would one answer the question "how do you feel about representing a client that has caused environmental damage" -
    I would say I feel not great about that, but of course most clients have and it's just a reality of the modern economy. If you're representing them in like, a class action or regulatory claim or something relating to that damage I think you need to discuss something along the lines of a commitment to access to justice & due process for all comers, and you have to mean it. I think it's also okay to draw your line in the sand, provided that it's reasonable, well thought-out and you can defend it well. I would probably draw my line at like, not working with clients who are wilfully and gleefully wreaking havoc upon the world, or merely greenwashing their business - ethics aside it's bad branding with the winds of change approaching gale force.

    Different firms will have different expectations - V&E prints a bunch of ties with like pipeline and oil well micropatterns every year so I wouldn't take a bleeding heart line with them, some other firms even though they have highly polluting clients are a bit more comfortable with voicing ethical compunctions.
     

    SCN

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    Feb 20, 2020
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    Yeah, I hear that. But I think a lot of it comes across - for lack of an appropriate euphemism - a bit 'needy' or adolescent. If you can't deal with the stress synonymous with the law application process (on your own accord) then you probably won't make a very good lawyer to start with. In short, yes it's a bit stressful, but it's nothing like the stressors you'll encounter during practice.

    I'm currently practicing as an analyst and wish to convert. I'm doing my applications around my current role (which is highly stressful) and it's a walk in the park compared, but that's just my view. I've been to hell and back before, so I guess I must just be used to it.
    Thanks @iolitelegal for voicing your opinions. I agree with your points that aspiring lawyers during the app process need an ability to handle stress. Lawyers definitely have very stressful jobs and knowing how to manage it is very important. At the same time, I also strongly believe that lawyers need to possess people skills i.e., empathy and an understanding of other people. Whilst you may have been 'through hell and back' and you're used to high levels of stress, others haven't. Understanding that this might be the first time that people are encountering such stressful situations is really important. Imagine you're talking to a really stressed out client who's worried about a particular issue. And that client is bugging you all the time and coming across as "needy" or "adolescent". You need to be empathetic/understanding that they're dealing with something challenging even if you personally don't think it's that stressful
     

    S87

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    I would say I feel not great about that, but of course most clients have and it's just a reality of the modern economy. If you're representing them in like, a class action or regulatory claim or something relating to that damage I think you need to discuss something along the lines of a commitment to access to justice & due process for all comers, and you have to mean it. I think it's also okay to draw your line in the sand, provided that it's reasonable, well thought-out and you can defend it well. I would probably draw my line at like, not working with clients who are wilfully and gleefully wreaking havoc upon the world, or merely greenwashing their business - ethics aside it's bad branding with the winds of change approaching gale force.

    Different firms will have different expectations - V&E prints a bunch of ties with like pipeline and oil well micropatterns every year so I wouldn't take a bleeding heart line with them, some other firms even though they have highly polluting clients are a bit more comfortable with voicing ethical compunctions.
    Dechert are representing Purdue pharma! Who singly caused the opioid crisis in USA. A disaster that is crippling families and bankrupting entire municipalities!
     

    Scandi

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  • Jan 28, 2021
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    Any help deeply appreciated:

    Fieldfisher's application is open to 'final-year students of all degree disciplines'.

    Does this mean PGDL students also can apply? Despite PGDL being only one year, it's also per se the final year (although after an undergraduate degree).
     

    SCN

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    Feb 20, 2020
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    Any help deeply appreciated:

    Fieldfisher's application is open to 'final-year students of all degree disciplines'.

    Does this mean PGDL students also can apply? Despite PGDL being only one year, it's also per se the final year (although after an undergraduate degree).
    Im not familiar with fieldfisher's app process but it seems like to me that it means final year students in an undergraduate degree. I would check with grad rec whether graduates can apply
     
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    Rob93

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    Dec 29, 2020
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    Dechert are representing Purdue pharma! Who singly caused the opioid crisis in USA. A disaster that is crippling families and bankrupting entire municipalities!
    I believe at this point they're being liquidated and proceeds going towards settling claims and trying to mitigate some of the damage done. It's a sordid history and I wouldn't be clamouring to have them in my rolodex but the work does need to be done. To a certain extent, also, I think there's something to be said for viewing this through the lens of systemic political and regulatory failure rather than as like, a standout instance of corporate malfeasance (although it was also that).

    Don't really want to go out on a limb defending Purdue or the Sacklers (I am not employed by Dechert and they are not paying me) but like, there are a few ways to think about these things.
     

    S87

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    I believe at this point they're being liquidated and proceeds going towards settling claims and trying to mitigate some of the damage done. It's a sordid history and I wouldn't be clamouring to have them in my rolodex but the work does need to be done. To a certain extent, also, I think there's something to be said for viewing this through the lens of systemic political and regulatory failure rather than as like, a standout instance of corporate malfeasance (although it was also that).

    Don't really want to go out on a limb defending Purdue or the Sacklers (I am not employed by Dechert and they are not paying me) but like, there are a few ways to think about these things.
    The regulators/agencies responsibilities are immense. However, going in front of a committee and blatantly laugh in the face of people who have lost everything is a kick in the teeth. I believe that they took advantage of the shit American bankruptcy law. Sometimes PR work is as important as Legal work, sometimes is not what you say but how you say it. Sometimes I draw a line because we are becoming the haves and have not!
     
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    CorporateLaw101

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  • Nov 16, 2021
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    How would one answer the question "how do you feel about representing a client that has caused environmental damage" -
    What a thought provoking question. Which firm is this for and is it for a vacation scheme?

    In answer to your question, I'll keep it brief as @Rob93 and others have provided great answers. In my mind, every decision that a firm makes in relation to client matters is generally/should be in the interest of wider stakeholders.

    I was discussing this with a friend the other day and thought: The client that you are representing is often publicly listed, which means that the 'wider stakeholders' often include pension funds, ISAs, other funds etc all the way down to individual shareholders. Understandably, investors know, or should know, that their capital is at risk. However, coming from a pure capitalistic point of view, at least you may be saving normal people that don't even realise they are invested in the company £millions.

    Also, from a less capitalistic point of view, it could come down to the jobs that one is saving in the process of successful representation.

    It's a ruthless world and thats just my two-cents. I also agree with the other points mentioned.
     

    esther18

    Active Member
    Junior Lawyer
    Feb 4, 2021
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    The white & case video interview platform isn’t working for me for some reason and I was wondering if anyone was experiencing the same thing? I’m currently on the practice question screen and it won’t let me click through to the actual interview! Not sure what to do 😅
     

    GXA123

    Legendary Member
  • Nov 30, 2020
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    The white & case video interview platform isn’t working for me for some reason and I was wondering if anyone was experiencing the same thing? I’m currently on the practice question screen and it won’t let me click through to the actual interview! Not sure what to do 😅
    try a different browser, are u using safari?
     

    Commerciallaw

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  • Aug 30, 2021
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    I would say I feel not great about that, but of course most clients have and it's just a reality of the modern economy. If you're representing them in like, a class action or regulatory claim or something relating to that damage I think you need to discuss something along the lines of a commitment to access to justice & due process for all comers, and you have to mean it. I think it's also okay to draw your line in the sand, provided that it's reasonable, well thought-out and you can defend it well. I would probably draw my line at like, not working with clients who are wilfully and gleefully wreaking havoc upon the world, or merely greenwashing their business - ethics aside it's bad branding with the winds of change approaching gale force.

    Different firms will have different expectations - V&E prints a bunch of ties with like pipeline and oil well micropatterns every year so I wouldn't take a bleeding heart line with them, some other firms even though they have highly polluting clients are a bit more comfortable with voicing ethical compunctions.

    What a thought provoking question. Which firm is this for and is it for a vacation scheme?

    In answer to your question, I'll keep it brief as @Rob93 and others have provided great answers. In my mind, every decision that a firm makes in relation to client matters is generally/should be in the interest of wider stakeholders.

    I was discussing this with a friend the other day and thought: The client that you are representing is often publicly listed, which means that the 'wider stakeholders' often include pension funds, ISAs, other funds etc all the way down to individual shareholders. Understandably, investors know, or should know, that their capital is at risk. However, coming from a pure capitalistic point of view, at least you may be saving normal people that don't even realise they are invested in the company £millions.

    Also, from a less capitalistic point of view, it could come down to the jobs that one is saving in the process of successful representation.

    It's a ruthless world and thats just my two-cents. I also agree with the other points mentioned.
    Thank you for your replies! Definitely very helpful!

    In response to your question @CorporateLaw101 - I am aware that CC has asked this question during a TC interview :)
     
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