TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[iolitelegal]

Thanks @iolitelegal for voicing your opinions. I agree with your points that aspiring lawyers during the app process need an ability to handle stress. Lawyers definitely have very stressful jobs and knowing how to manage it is very important. At the same time, I also strongly believe that lawyers need to possess people skills i.e., empathy and an understanding of other people. Whilst you may have been 'through hell and back' and you're used to high levels of stress, others haven't. Understanding that this might be the first time that people are encountering such stressful situations is really important. Imagine you're talking to a really stressed out client who's worried about a particular issue. And that client is bugging you all the time and coming across as "needy" or "adolescent". You need to be empathetic/understanding that they're dealing with something challenging even if you personally don't think it's that stressful

This is an excellent point and I couldn't agree more. Of course, I have empathy for anyone who is genuinely stressed out by the process. My initial comment merely referred to those who were constantly inquiring as to the position of others. I simply suggested that they focus on themselves to avoid the inevitable stress associated with application uncertainty.

 

[iolitelegal]

Can anyone assist with the below question for the R&G VS app? Tia!

"What three proposals would you make to the Partnership if you were Chair of Ropes & Gray?"

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Can anyone assist with the below question for the R&G VS app? Tia!

"What three proposals would you make to the Partnership if you were Chair of Ropes & Gray?"

Open an office in a city that they don't operate in maybe a big market centre. This is just a suggestion I have not done research on Ropes Gray.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

mmm..I am part of Aspire and believe me I have received more help on here than Aspire! Spending 8 hours on a single file calls for mistakes! Print and read the file out loud 3 times, or just read it out loud a couple of times.

I actually agree with you as I have benefitted from the forum a lot and know someone who was on Aspire last year and they said it was not that helpful.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

8 hours to proof read one application?! That seems rather overboard. I don’t think I’ve ever spent that proofreading masters essays of 7.5-10k words let alone an app with maybe 1-2k words 😂

Yes I know what you mean like I honestly think 2 hours should be enough to make an average answer look really strong.

 

[AvniD]

What's the average amount of time you guys spend on one application when not rushing? I feel exceptionally slow...

@iolitelegal I've actively spent about one week/10 days on an app, with some more passive effort (attending events, networking) occurring over months. Everybody's speed and priorities are different and as long as you're able to submit them in time to a high standard, you're good.

If a firm asks you “why did you apply for a Vacation Scheme with us” at interview after they have asked why the firm, should this be taken to mean why I am applying for that role in particular? For instance, getting more legal experience?

@ek125712 I would break down the question down into two parts- why the vacation scheme and why at the firm. Alternatively, you could break it down into how the vacation scheme at the firm stands out and, potentially even, why this firm. I hope this helps?

I'm probably going to sound stupid rn but how relevant is the metaverse concept to law firms? Because it's off going to have a lot of legal issues which underpin it as it begins but will law firms develop specific niches in this type of law? or would it come under something broader like technology or maybe alongside NFT type stuff? I've also noticed virtually no law firms have wrote or published anything about it which indicates what their approach will be to such a thing. sorry if I sound stupid again, this is not my area of expertise!!!

@therealellewoods things that matter to their clients matter to firms. They may not have written on it for a myriad range of reasons- maybe they're still figuring things out, maybe they haven't had to deal with it in a tangible way yet, maybe they don't want to publicly discuss their approach to it at this time etc. But if you can find a way to link it to a firm's clients and their practices, then you should be able to make an impact with your answer.

 

[crispychicken]

How would one answer the question "how do you feel about representing a client that has caused environmental damage" -

I got asked exactly the same question at Travers a few years ago. Don't overthink it, give your answer and have a reason to back it up. The partner will challenge you no matter what answer you give. I think they want to test how you can answer unexpected questions on the spot and how you can back up your arguments.

 

[Samir_O]

are DLA still sending out ACs? I've still heard nothing (and my portal hasn't updated since I submitted) :/

have been in the same boat as you!! really strange to have not heard ANYTHING

 

[AvniD]

Yeah, I hear that. But I think a lot of it comes across - for lack of an appropriate euphemism - a bit 'needy' or adolescent. If you can't deal with the stress synonymous with the law application process (on your own accord) then you probably won't make a very good lawyer to start with. In short, yes it's a bit stressful, but it's nothing like the stressors you'll encounter during practice.

I understand what you mean- the application process is a taster of what lies ahead and being able to approach it with a balanced perspective really is crucial, especially re managing priorities and stress.

That being said, every person is different and approaches making applications differently and in ways that we may not always agree with. Success in this field taps on the shoulders of all kinds of people so there's really no one fool-proof way to go about managing stress.

Lastly, the forum is a place where we'd like people to freely share their opinions and thoughts, as you have rightfully done so as well, and we encourage everyone to post here through their application journeys so we can support them in whatever way they need 😇

 

[Jessica Booker]

Yes I agree with you but it is good to read it again and again as my friend who was part of AS Aspire said that Chris White said you should spend 8 hours proofreading your application. But I would say 2 hours is good enough.

I have a lot of time for Chris (have worked with him in the past and think AS is an amazing organisation) but I don’t think this is great advice. 8 hours to proofread is not realistic nor productive in my opinion. It also doesn’t set you up well for the career when you’ll have far less time to proof read documents. I would say 8 hours is enough to draft, fill out and proofread an application on average.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Do you guys think that having mental health as a setback that you overcame is too personal?

I think it really depends on the circumstances. You have to feel very comfortable talking about it first. If it’s on your application, it’s going to be fair game to talk about in the interview process (unless the process is application blind) and your interviewer could ask more about it.

In addition, I think you need something tangible to show how you overcame the condition. Like most STAR answers to these type of questions, you really need to focus on the Result/Reaction/Reflection aspects of the answer - what you have in here (like most answers) will actually be the substance in the answer that the firm is interested in.

I have seen it work very well in some applications, and put brutally awfully in others. In the latter it can often be because they focus so much on the negativity on the situation, rather than the positivity of persevering through it. There can often be a risk that people blame others for their circumstances. Although I completely understand mental health can impacted by others’ behaviour, you have to make sure how you describe things is balanced and not inflict blame.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just my view/opinion on the recruitment process and it’s stresses, just to add it to the conversation.

The process is stressful for the vast majority of people. You will probably never experience so much rejection/lack of success in your lifetime ever again. And even if you do, you’ll probably get much more guidance on why that was the case. Once you get into your career, there will be many more small wins you have that will balance out the things that don’t go to plan.

But stress does not just come from failing. For many people their stress triggers are very different, and they may find the career a lot more stressful than the recruitment process because of that.

I think it also depends on what else you have got going on in your life. Many people find this process stressful as there aren’t other key stresses in their life. Sometimes people are more blasé about this process because compared to other things they are dealing/dealt with, this is less significant. For the next person, this is their only/main/first stress causer.

But I agree with the earlier comment that these forums are a conduit for off loading some of that stress, or in some cases helps to minimising it because of the information/advice shared. It really is part of the reason we are here - we are trying to make the journey easier for people. Our purpose is to have an open forum where people can discuss these things openly and productively. Sometimes that means it can cause a trigger in another person, but we can’t constantly censor ourselves in fear of it impacting others. We wouldn’t be able to post much at all if we did that.

But my final comment is I think it is absolutely vital to learn from this process on how to deal with your stresses. If you feel yourself getting anxious about something, try to analyse what is causing that and try to think about ways of remedying it. Sometimes that will be trail and error. Sometimes that will be by doing something silly. Sometimes that will be being good to yourself. Sometimes it will be by doing good for others. But this is the best way to prepare yourself for the career, because it is going to be stressful and you need to prepare yourself for that no matter what you are feeling right now.

 

[Ambs123]

I was cut off during one of my VI questions - do you think that will cost me moving to the next stage of the app process?

 

[Legalmel_99]

I was cut off during one of my VI questions - do you think that will cost me moving to the next stage of the app process?

Nope. I had a Vi last year 3/6 were cut off and said disturbed and I made it to the ac still x

 

[Legalmel_99]

“
This is just a gentle reminder that the deadline to complete the interactive assessment is 31st January 2022.

Please endeavor to complete this by the deadline”

do I have until today to complete it?

 

[Ambs123]

Nope. I had a Vi last year 3/6 were cut off and said disturbed and I made it to the ac still x

Ooooof that makes me feel better

 

[Legalmel_99]

Ooooof that makes me feel better

Good luck xx

 

[Jessica Booker]

I was cut off during one of my VI questions - do you think that will cost me moving to the next stage of the app process?

No - but you might want to send the recruitment team a brief email notifying them you were cut off. They can then make a decision as to whether to reset it or just factor it into their decision making.

 

[Ambs123]

Good luck xx

Thanks xx think I messed it up so I feel a little sad but it’s ok

 

[Jessica Booker]

I might really start to get angry if I receive another email saying that they can’t provide reasonable adjustments but will take into account my disability when evaluating my results. For the love of God!

You can ask them why they do not deem it a reasonable adjustment if they are not providing this explanation. However, their response is likely to be that the adjustment is being made in how they evaluate the results.