TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

Seville123

Active Member
  • Sep 1, 2019
    16
    98
    how many firms is everyone waiting on? im waiting on 3 and then that concludes my cycle!
    I have no more firms 😅 I tried to make a small number of tailored apps this cycle. Although I did get a vac scheme at an MC firm which I am really grateful for, I didn’t convert it 🥹

    I am now going to apply for some direct TCs.

    But what are people planning on doing if they have not secured a TC or VC?
     

    mx.jsn

    Standard Member
    Premium Member
    Nov 1, 2023
    5
    22
    does anyone have a list of possible questions for interviews/VIs? It's (technically) my first one and I want to give it my all 🥹

    This thread is also very useful:

     

    EzeLaylor

    Standard Member
  • Oct 15, 2021
    9
    6
    I have no more firms 😅 I tried to make a small number of tailored apps this cycle. Although I did get a vac scheme at an MC firm which I am really grateful for, I didn’t convert it 🥹

    I am now going to apply for some direct TCs.

    But what are people planning on doing if they have not secured a TC or VC?

    Do you have any tips for converting a vac scheme at an MC firm - Have one coming up in the summer (was fast-tracked from the open day) and could really use some help as it's my first scheme.
     

    sxw517

    Legendary Member
    Gold Member
    Premium Member
  • Sep 20, 2021
    646
    615
    Some of the members on this forum will argue the toss over absolutely anything, they'd probably even debate the colour of the sky on a clear day.

    I think many people raise points, unaware that one of the resident pedants will swoop in with a fine-tooth comb ready to dissect every word of their post.

    It's really quite tiresome, even not being a part of it.........
     
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    RonRod13

    Distinguished Member
    Nov 18, 2023
    74
    137
    I don’t think anyone wants to see this debate to continue anymore, especially because you’re ignoring pretty sound advice, but I think you’re getting confused.

    No one is disputing that W&C aren’t competitors with all other US firms. To a degree, all City law firms compete against each other. However, if you were asked in an interview who W&C’s competitors were and your answer was “all US firms”, I can almost guarantee that interviewers would not be impressed. It shows a serious lack of critical thinking and depth, just like if you were asked who Freshfields’ competitors were and you said “all of the MC”. It just isn’t the case when in many regards, HSF or Hogan Lovells will be considered bigger competitors.

    I’d say Latham is probably W&C’s biggest competitor but that’s not purely because it’s a US firm, it’s because it’s clearly the firm W&C aspires to be by making its London office its biggest, rather than a satellite office like most US firms in London. It also is increasing its work in the corporate/capital markets sphere like Latham. Skadden is worth a mention too.

    However, you wouldn’t say somewhere like Orrick is a bigger competitor than W&C than Clifford Chance, say, who excel in capital markets, insolvency, and other areas that W&C specialises in. If you’re focusing on energy and projects, which W&C is known for, Norton Rose would be a far bigger competitor than Paul Hastings for W&C.

    It’s a nuanced answer. It’s fine to say a US firm, like Latham, if you can back it up. Saying Morgan Lewis, Orrick, and Weil are competitors solely because they’re US firms, while ignoring a firm like NRF, who is arguably a bigger competitor, won’t get you far.

    Now let’s end this debate here. If you don’t want to take the advice, that’s your choice!
    So this is just absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand and youve gone off an tangent. The argument is not about who is a bigger competitor or who is a more direct competitor, its about who is W&C's competitors full stop.

    Here you say:
    No one is disputing that W&C aren’t competitors with all other US firms.
    This is literally what the whole argument is about and how this whole discussion orirginated, I urge you to please assimilate all the information accurately before writing a response.


    "Just because they try to target different audiences, brand themselves differently, price their cars differently etc."

    That's like saying a fine dining restaurant competes with McDonald's because they both have burgers on the menu.

    I don't want to restart this debate so, please just read other comments and reflect. Good luck with the applications!
    Thats not a contradiction, I was simply explaining those are some of the ways the two companies try to compete.

    Furthermore, your second statement shows your lack of ability to make comparisons and make logical deductions. Mcdonalds is in the fast food industry, not the sit-down, restauraunt dining industry, it caters to people who want affordable, quick, on-the-go food. Their competitors are other fast-food restauraunts like burger king and KFC. Of course they would not be competing with fine dining chains because they're in a DIFFERENT INDUSTRY. It is not like I said "every company that produces vehicles are competing with each other." So, your statement only proves my point further.

    Im honestly shocked by so many people's lack of business acumen and ability to understand their business models. You're applying to jobs where you're going to be doing this on a daily basis so its a bit alarming to be honest...
     
    Last edited:

    law2022x

    Legendary Member
    Feb 21, 2022
    160
    449
    So this is just absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand and youve gone off an tangent. The argument is not about who is a bigger competitor or who is a more direct competitor, its about who is W&C's competitors full stop.

    Here you say:

    This is literally what the whole argument is about and how this whole discussion orirginated, I urge you to please assimilate all the information accurately before writing a response.



    Thats not a contradiction, I was simply explaining those are some of the ways the two companies try to compete.

    Furthermore, your second statement shows your lack of ability to make comparisons and make logical deductions. Mcdonalds is in the fast food industry, not the sit-down, restauraunt dining industry, it caters to people who want affordable, quick, on-the-go food. Their competitors are other fast-food restauraunts like burger king and KFC. Of course they would not be competing with fine dining chains because they're in a different industry. It is not like I said "every company that produces vehicles are competing with each other." So, your statement only proves my point further.

    Im honestly shocked by so many people's lack of business acumen and ability to understand their business models. You're applying to jobs where you're going to be doing this on a daily basis so its a bit alarming to be honest...
    be quiet
     

    RonRod13

    Distinguished Member
    Nov 18, 2023
    74
    137
    Some of the members on this forum will argue the toss over absolutely anything, they'd probably even debate the colour of the sky on a clear day.

    I think many people raise points, unaware that one of the resident pedants will swoop in with a fine-tooth comb ready to dissect every word of their post.

    It's really quite tiresome, even not being a part of it.........
    You do understand that you are applying for jobs where you're going to be having discussions like this everyday for many many hours a week. If you find it so "tiresome" perhaps you should consider a different career path...
     
    Last edited:
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    laby201

    Legendary Member
    Premium Member
    Jan 28, 2021
    275
    766
    So this is just absolutely irrelevant to the argument at hand and youve gone off an tangent. The argument is not about who is a bigger competitor or who is a more direct competitor, its about who is W&C's competitors full stop.

    Here you say:

    This is literally what the whole argument is about and how this whole discussion orirginated, I urge you to please assimilate all the information accurately before writing a response.



    Thats not a contradiction, I was simply explaining those are some of the ways the two companies try to compete.

    Furthermore, your second statement shows your lack of ability to make comparisons and make logical deductions. Mcdonalds is in the fast food industry, not the sit-down, restauraunt dining industry, it caters to people who want affordable, quick, on-the-go food. Their competitors are other fast-food restauraunts like burger king and KFC. Of course they would not be competing with fine dining chains because they're in a different industry. It is not like I said "every company that produces vehicles are competing with each other." So, your statement only proves my point further.

    Im honestly shocked by so many people's lack of business acumen and ability to understand their business models. You're applying to jobs where you're going to be doing this on a daily basis so its a bit alarming to be honest...
    No one wants to engage in this debate anymore. If you disagree with what countless other people have told you, that’s fine.

    If you want to go into an interview when asked who a firm’s competitors are and you answer “all US firms”, I hope that goes well for you, Ron Rod. What a fantastic display of business acumen that is. Have a good day.
     

    Seville123

    Active Member
  • Sep 1, 2019
    16
    98
    Do you have any tips for converting a vac scheme at an MC firm - Have one coming up in the summer (was fast-tracked from the open day) and could really use some help as it's my first scheme.

    - Make sure you let your Principal/supervisor know where you are at all times
    - Be enthusiastic and curious; don't be afraid to ask your Principal/supervisor questions about the work that they are doing.
    - During the department presentations, make sure to be enthusiastic and ask lots of questions - it may not necessarily count towards conversion but it does help to build confidence when a Partner says that you asked a good question!
    - Be proactive in organising coffee chats with employees - have coffee chats not with employees from all hierarchical levels, and different departments. Graduate recruitment may ask you during the scheme how many coffee chats you have organised, so be prepared for that.
    - At the same time, ensure that you manage your workload, and do not organise so many coffee chats that you can not do your work to a high standard!
    - If you have assessed work to submit, submit it on time
    - Before the vac scheme, really brush up on your commercial awareness, but also your *technical knowledge*. The reason I didn't convert my vac scheme was because I did not have enough technical knowledge.
    - If you are a non-law student, take some time to read a few contracts, and get to grips with how they are set out, and what is in them. Have a brief look at the Companies Act 2006. Have an initial understanding of how companies are run: AGMs, Model Articles, Directors' Duties, etc.
    - Understand how an M&A deal works if your MC firm is prominent in Corporate - watch 'The Anatomy of a Deal' by Allen & Overy on Youtube.
    - Have serious attention to detail, and set out your written work clearly

    That's all I can think of for now!
     

    saj2002

    Distinguished Member
    Gold Member
    Premium Member
  • Dec 7, 2023
    60
    106

    This thread is also very useful:

    Thank you so much!!! this is very helpful :)
     
    Reactions: Sharon Wu

    EzeLaylor

    Standard Member
  • Oct 15, 2021
    9
    6
    - Make sure you let your Principal/supervisor know where you are at all times
    - Be enthusiastic and curious; don't be afraid to ask your Principal/supervisor questions about the work that they are doing.
    - During the department presentations, make sure to be enthusiastic and ask lots of questions - it may not necessarily count towards conversion but it does help to build confidence when a Partner says that you asked a good question!
    - Be proactive in organising coffee chats with employees - have coffee chats not with employees from all hierarchical levels, and different departments. Graduate recruitment may ask you during the scheme how many coffee chats you have organised, so be prepared for that.
    - At the same time, ensure that you manage your workload, and do not organise so many coffee chats that you can not do your work to a high standard!
    - If you have assessed work to submit, submit it on time
    - Before the vac scheme, really brush up on your commercial awareness, but also your *technical knowledge*. The reason I didn't convert my vac scheme was because I did not have enough technical knowledge.
    - If you are a non-law student, take some time to read a few contracts, and get to grips with how they are set out, and what is in them. Have a brief look at the Companies Act 2006. Have an initial understanding of how companies are run: AGMs, Model Articles, Directors' Duties, etc.
    - Understand how an M&A deal works if your MC firm is prominent in Corporate - watch 'The Anatomy of a Deal' by Allen & Overy on Youtube.
    - Have serious attention to detail, and set out your written work clearly

    That's all I can think of for now!
    This is so helpful - Thank you so much 😍😍 I was so lost figuring out how to prepare 😭 so this is going to be really helpful in figuring out where to start.
     

    VacayScheme

    Distinguished Member
    Nov 14, 2023
    50
    210
    - Be proactive in organising coffee chats with employees - have coffee chats not with employees from all hierarchical levels, and different departments. Graduate recruitment may ask you during the scheme how many coffee chats you have organised, so be prepared for that.
    - At the same time, ensure that you manage your workload, and do not organise so many coffee chats that you can not do your work to a high standard!

    Question for anyone who's done vac schemes before - how do you actually go about the above? Are you just encouraged to approach people at random or is there more guidance during the vac scheme itself?

    Arguably my biggest concern about doing well on my vac schemes is the networking side of things - definitely doesn't come naturally 😅.
     

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