Ask A Graduate Recruiter Anything!

[Matt_96]

Hi Jessica,

I have three questions for you, if you are willing to answer them.

Firstly, if a firm were to ask you to talk about the current or future impact of something that interests you on the legal sector (I'm speaking generally, but I lifted this example from A&O's application form) would it be acceptable to actually say why you are sceptical that something is having/going to have an impact (at least for the foreseeable future)?

Secondly, when you see 'cover letter' style application forms that ask you to fit everything there is to know about you in between 650-800 words, how should you structure that? Is it just a case of why law, why the firm, why me, or does such a question require a more nuanced answer?

As a related sub-question, if one of those broad umbrella questions does not specifically ask you for your reasons for applying to the firm, but asks you more generally to talk about yourself, should you still try and mention the firm anyway?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you so much! Is this generally for all US related-work for US firms based in London?

Yes - it will be the same for many jurisdictions. Unless the matter is based on English law, you are unlikely to be working on it - local lawyers will more likely be working on it

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

I have three questions for you, if you are willing to answer them.

Firstly, if a firm were to ask you to talk about the current or future impact of something that interests you on the legal sector (I'm speaking generally, but I lifted this example from A&O's application form) would it be acceptable to actually say why you are sceptical that something is having/going to have an impact (at least for the foreseeable future)?

Secondly, when you see 'cover letter' style application forms that ask you to fit everything there is to know about you in between 650-800 words, how should you structure that? Is it just a case of why law, why the firm, why me, or does such a question require a more nuanced answer?

As a related sub-question, if one of those broad umbrella questions does not specifically ask you for your reasons for applying to the firm, but asks you more generally to talk about yourself, should you still try and mention the firm anyway?

1) it’s not really answering the question - I’d avoid it

2) no set answer on how it should be structured. I’ve read about 12,000 of those type of applications and I’ve seen different structures work well. Main thing is for it to have structure, be concise and focus on what is relevant.

3) if they haven’t asked you why you are applying elsewhere, you should include this in your answer. Focusing on your motivations and skill set rather than what the firm does, means you are still answering the question

 

[Matt_96]

1) it’s not really answering the question - I’d avoid it

2) no set answer on how it should be structured. I’ve read about 12,000 of those type of applications and I’ve seen different structures work well. Main thing is for it to have structure, be concise and focus on what is relevant.

3) if they haven’t asked you why you are applying elsewhere, you should include this in your answer. Focusing on your motivations and skill set rather than what the firm does, means you are still answering the question

Thanks for this, that is really helpful stuff.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Hi Jessica, so sorry to bother again with another question. I am starting on vac scheme applications and I was wondering if it was imperative I mention a deal every time I am drafting a response to a question (eg: why this firm etc.)/cover letter? For one of the ones I drafted I focused more on its culture and sense of camaraderie which appealed to me rather than pinpointing work it has done. Would this be acceptable or is talking about the firm's actual work essential?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, so sorry to bother again with another question. I am starting on vac scheme applications and I was wondering if it was imperative I mention a deal every time I am drafting a response to a question (eg: why this firm etc.)/cover letter? For one of the ones I drafted I focused more on its culture and sense of camaraderie which appealed to me rather than pinpointing work it has done. Would this be acceptable or is talking about the firm's actual work essential?

No not imperative at all. In fact most times it’s actually not a great thing to include. A cover letter is about you, not the firm. You need to explain why the work they do will keep you interested/focused, but always link it back to you and your motivations.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

No not imperative at all. In fact most times it’s actually not a great thing to include. A cover letter is about you, not the firm. You need to explain why the work they do will keep you interested/focused, but always link it back to you and your motivations.

Hi Jessica, thank you for your reply. To clarify, as long as I show an interest in the firm, linking it back to me and my motivations, that should be fine right?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, thank you for your reply. To clarify, as long as I show an interest in the firm, linking it back to me and my motivations, that should be fine right?

Depends

Are you including the deal just to impress? Or are you genuinely interested in that deal and can clearly get briefly explain why? If the latter it is fine, if the former, then don’t do it.

 

[Deleted member 2707]

Depends

Are you including the deal just to impress? Or are you genuinely interested in that deal and can clearly get briefly explain why? If the latter it is fine, if the former, then don’t do it.

Thanks! I was just concerned as most tips told me to center my application around a deal. For my Jones Day application, I did stumble upon a deal with a prominent Middle Eastern family that interested me but it was simply due to the fact that I was impressed that the firm represented such a big client and I am keen to be working at a firm at the top of their game working on big deals.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thanks! I was just concerned as most tips told me to center my application around a deal. For my Jones Day application, I did stumble upon a deal with a prominent Middle Eastern family that interested me but it was simply due to the fact that I was impressed that the firm represented such a big client and I am keen to be working at a firm at the top of their game working on big deals.

A firm like Jones Day will be working with much bigger clients than that. So will many other firms, so this isn’t that much of a differentiator. This is the issue with using deals unnecessarily - it can flag up holes in your knowledge more than show it off.

Unless Jones Day are telling you to focus on your answers on a deal (unlikely) the advice you are receiving is too generic.

Ask yourself this - what is the purpose of including a deal in your application when the firm will know a lot more about it than you will?

 

[Aela_Nox]

Hi Jess,

Just wondering what your thoughts would be on this. I'm currently in a position where I feel like it's too late for me to be a viable candidate for a TC and I worry that I am the only person to make such a mess of things!

I graduated from a Russell Group uni in 2015, Law degree - scraped a 2:1, did well in my third year but not so great in 1st/2nd. I failed Tort Law too many times and therefore was not GLD exempt in the first place - though I resat the module and passed. Took my LPC a year later (2016 - 2017 - did some work experience in the gap year) and obtained a pass. I have resat two exams during my degree and a few more on my LPC and I'm aware that resits are very concerning to recruiters.

I do have some mitigating circumstances - but as the issues are of a personal nature they've never counted at either university (I tried to prove it at university) or during my LPC although my tutor on my LPC acknowledged these. The circumstances are technically still ongoing although things have markedly improved since then. In terms of experiences, I've had a few regular jobs, volunteered at Citizens' Advice last summer, done some pro bono and had a few months experience at another law firm. I currently work at a conveyancing law firm (1 years' experience so far.) I have attended a few open days, law fairs etc over the years but have not had much success with my applications and the above is probably why.

This year I really want to try and give it my all. I'm researching firms I'm interested in, I will attend the law fair at my old university and I will sign up for open days/evenings at firms I would like to know more about. Given that I'm quite a few years out of graduation/LPC with average work experience and slightly below average grades... is there really a chance for someone like me to get a TC or should I seriously be considering other options at this point? I have had mixed reactions from people, but I'm aware that competition is fierce. I would like to give it my best shot but there is no point if I don't stand a chance to begin with.

In general - what kind of advice do you have for candidates who are juggling a full-time job with making applications, attending open days etc?

Thank you in advance and sorry for the wall of text!

 

[wwood]

Hi Jessica! I'm struggling with the question of "what makes you stand out from the crowd" generally (taken from Norton Rose Fulbright). I do not exactly have lots of experience outside work/studies (e.g. I did not set up any student societies, or participate in case competitions). My extracurricular experiences were like in 2015/2016 or before that, and they're quite outdated! I can hardly recall what I did at that time as well. A friend of mine suggested using legal work as examples to highlight certain qualities. Would like to know your thoughts on this. Thanks for your help!

 

[Jaysen]

Thanks! I was just concerned as most tips told me to center my application around a deal. For my Jones Day application, I did stumble upon a deal with a prominent Middle Eastern family that interested me but it was simply due to the fact that I was impressed that the firm represented such a big client and I am keen to be working at a firm at the top of their game working on big deals.

Who told you to centre your application around a deal? I rarely see applications that are better off because of the mention of a deal. Most of the time, I find it comes across as quite artificial and doesn't give me any more insight into why a candidate is applying to a particular firm.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess,

Just wondering what your thoughts would be on this. I'm currently in a position where I feel like it's too late for me to be a viable candidate for a TC and I worry that I am the only person to make such a mess of things!

I graduated from a Russell Group uni in 2015, Law degree - scraped a 2:1, did well in my third year but not so great in 1st/2nd. I failed Tort Law too many times and therefore was not GLD exempt in the first place - though I resat the module and passed. Took my LPC a year later (2016 - 2017 - did some work experience in the gap year) and obtained a pass. I have resat two exams during my degree and a few more on my LPC and I'm aware that resits are very concerning to recruiters.

I do have some mitigating circumstances - but as the issues are of a personal nature they've never counted at either university (I tried to prove it at university) or during my LPC although my tutor on my LPC acknowledged these. The circumstances are technically still ongoing although things have markedly improved since then. In terms of experiences, I've had a few regular jobs, volunteered at Citizens' Advice last summer, done some pro bono and had a few months experience at another law firm. I currently work at a conveyancing law firm (1 years' experience so far.) I have attended a few open days, law fairs etc over the years but have not had much success with my applications and the above is probably why.

This year I really want to try and give it my all. I'm researching firms I'm interested in, I will attend the law fair at my old university and I will sign up for open days/evenings at firms I would like to know more about. Given that I'm quite a few years out of graduation/LPC with average work experience and slightly below average grades... is there really a chance for someone like me to get a TC or should I seriously be considering other options at this point? I have had mixed reactions from people, but I'm aware that competition is fierce. I would like to give it my best shot but there is no point if I don't stand a chance to begin with.

In general - what kind of advice do you have for candidates who are juggling a full-time job with making applications, attending open days etc?

Thank you in advance and sorry for the wall of text!

Your age is not an issue - average age of someone qualifying is 28 or 29 if I remember correctly.

The resits are going to be an issue - especially where they are spread over more than one course.

Can you get any documentation to support the circumstances? Eg personal do medical references if your academics can’t provide one?

Alternatively look out for firms who recruit heavily from paralegals populations, or organisations who don’t put weighting on academics (like the GLS).

Unfortunately advice on application strategy would be no different to anyone else - you just have to plan your time effectively. Work out where to put your efforts, understand application window timelines and design a timeline around those.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica! I'm struggling with the question of "what makes you stand out from the crowd" generally (taken from Norton Rose Fulbright). I do not exactly have lots of experience outside work/studies (e.g. I did not set up any student societies, or participate in case competitions). My extracurricular experiences were like in 2015/2016 or before that, and they're quite outdated! I can hardly recall what I did at that time as well. A friend of mine suggested using legal work as examples to highlight certain qualities. Would like to know your thoughts on this. Thanks for your help!

This is incredibly difficult to answer without knowing more about you.

Why do you need to have lots of ECs to answer this though?

You need to work out what your elevator pitch is - there is lots of advice online to give you some guidance on how to think about your elevator pitch. This is basically what this question is asking you to do.

 

[Aela_Nox]

Your age is not an issue - average age of someone qualifying is 28 or 29 if I remember correctly.

The resits are going to be an issue - especially where they are spread over more than one course.

Can you get any documentation to support the circumstances? Eg personal do medical references if your academics can’t provide one?

Alternatively look out for firms who recruit heavily from paralegals populations, or organisations who don’t put weighting on academics (like the GLS).

Unfortunately advice on application strategy would be no different to anyone else - you just have to plan your time effectively. Work out where to put your efforts, understand application window timelines and design a timeline around those.

Hi,

Thanks for your answer - I think the one I was most worried about was age so glad to hear that.

I am less concerned about my university resits since it was two modules in total and I upped my game in my third year. My LPC resits are more than one but were all during Stage 1 so are more concentrated around a couple of months when the problems were at their worst. It wasn't a medical problem in particular, it was another problem over a period of time where the police were involved a number of times. I only saw the GP once in relation to the issue itself due to the effect it had on me, so I don't know what kind of evidence I could provide. My Stage 2 results were better and didn't need any resits.

My LPC tutor may be able to provide a reference which takes this into account (she did for a previous job and it was fine) but it's been 2 years since I was on the LPC.

I'm not sure which firms recruit heavily from paralegal populations but I will keep an eye out and do some research.

Thanks for all your help

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi,

Thanks for your answer - I think the one I was most worried about was age so glad to hear that.

I am less concerned about my university resits since it was two modules in total and I upped my game in my third year. My LPC resits are more than one but were all during Stage 1 so are more concentrated around a couple of months when the problems were at their worst. It wasn't a medical problem in particular, it was another problem over a period of time where the police were involved a number of times. I only saw the GP once in relation to the issue itself due to the effect it had on me, so I don't know what kind of evidence I could provide. My Stage 2 results were better and didn't need any resits.

My LPC tutor may be able to provide a reference which takes this into account (she did for a previous job and it was fine) but it's been 2 years since I was on the LPC.

I'm not sure which firms recruit heavily from paralegal populations but I will keep an eye out and do some research.

Thanks for all your help

I would keep a copy of your LPC reference from two years ago and use that. Nothing will have changed from it, so getting a copy to support your application is probably a good idea.

I wouldn’t underestimate the resits - I think most firms I’ve worked for would be concerned enough about them unless the mit circs were clear.

 

[Lumree]

Hi Jessica,

On the topic of resitting modules, I resat one GCSE and one A level exam, not because I had failed but because I knew I could do better. (I went from a D to an A in one.)

Because I didn't have to resit these due to some failure, should I still mention them on applications where it asks if I ever had to resit an exam?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica,

On the topic of resitting modules, I resat one GCSE and one A level exam, not because I had failed but because I knew I could do better. (I went from a D to an A in one.)

Because I didn't have to resit these due to some failure, should I still mention them on applications where it asks if I ever had to resit an exam?

Whole course or just one assessment within your GCSEs and A-Level?

 

[Lumree]

Whole course or just one assessment within your GCSEs and A-Level?

Just one assessment (exam) in GCSE and one assessment (exam) in A level, not the whole course. Neither assessments were actually fails.