General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[law2021]

Personally I wouldn't follow up post-WG. Grad Rec will be exceptionally busy at the moment, especially if they're WFH, and they'll receive dozens of emails asking similar questions. I know the wait is exceedingly hard but just try and concentrate/ distract yourself with other stuff to try and make it easier! Also don't assume a rejection is imminent, it might be the case that they're just weighing up different apps against each other to decide on exactly who to ask to interview so it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be knocked back!

Very best of luck

Thank you for getting back to me!

 

[whisperingrock]

Does anyone have the graduate recruitment email for Ashurt? Can't seem to find it online

gradrec@ashurst.com

 

[Beth P]

Hi! I was wondering whether someone could help me in distinguishing the answers for the following questions:

'How can X overcome the challenges it faces in a saturated legal market' and
'How does X differentiate itself from other firms'

I'm not sure how to answer these differently in the same application. Thanks in advance!

 

[Ricky]

Hi! I was wondering whether someone could help me in distinguishing the answers for the following questions:

'How can X overcome the challenges it faces in a saturated legal market' and
'How does X differentiate itself from other firms'

I'm not sure how to answer these differently in the same application. Thanks in advance!

My view:

1. Identify the challenges the firm faces in the legal market focussing on the client perspective and then what it can do to overcome them: gaining new clients, retention, pricing models, ALSPs, onshoring etc.
2. How does the firm differentiate itself from others: training, work, structure, business model/strategy, thought leadership, how they add value, international presence, collaboration, use of legal tech etc.

There is some overlap but the first question is asking you to identify the challenges and then provide solutions. The second is just asking you to show your understanding of how the firm differs.

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi! I was wondering whether someone could help me in distinguishing the answers for the following questions:

'How can X overcome the challenges it faces in a saturated legal market' and
'How does X differentiate itself from other firms'

I'm not sure how to answer these differently in the same application. Thanks in advance!

I really like @Ricky's points here. I think for question one, the key thing to show is a consistent drive towards meeting client needs without ever compromising the quality of advice and service that it offers. I would also add that leveraging technology is increasingly important in this context.
In terms of question two, I think Ricky covers pretty much all bases here. In addition, the one thing I'd say (and I give this advice quite often) is don't focus much on culture here unless you've spent a decent amount of time with the firm before- there's no credibility to an answer on culture if you've not spent time with them to experience it.

V best of luck with your applications!

 

[Beth P]

My view:

1. Identify the challenges the firm faces in the legal market focussing on the client perspective and then what it can do to overcome them: gaining new clients, retention, pricing models, ALSPs, onshoring etc.
2. How does the firm differentiate itself from others: training, work, structure, business model/strategy, thought leadership, how they add value, international presence, collaboration, use of legal tech etc.

There is some overlap but the first question is asking you to identify the challenges and then provide solutions. The second is just asking you to show your understanding of how the firm differs.

I really like @Ricky's points here. I think for question one, the key thing to show is a consistent drive towards meeting client needs without ever compromising the quality of advice and service that it offers. I would also add that leveraging technology is increasingly important in this context.
In terms of question two, I think Ricky covers pretty much all bases here. In addition, the one thing I'd say (and I give this advice quite often) is don't focus much on culture here unless you've spent a decent amount of time with the firm before- there's no credibility to an answer on culture if you've not spent time with them to experience it.

V best of luck with your applications!

Thank you so much both of you. Super useful and makes much more sense now!

 

[Ricky]

I really like @Ricky's points here. I think for question one, the key thing to show is a consistent drive towards meeting client needs without ever compromising the quality of advice and service that it offers. I would also add that leveraging technology is increasingly important in this context.
In terms of question two, I think Ricky covers pretty much all bases here. In addition, the one thing I'd say (and I give this advice quite often) is don't focus much on culture here unless you've spent a decent amount of time with the firm before- there's no credibility to an answer on culture if you've not spent time with them to experience it.

V best of luck with your applications!

Completely agree about culture. Have heard several GR say don't talk about it in applications as it is just too generic. There is so much else to talk about and link back to you.

 

[M1999]

If a firm is non-rolling. Do they read the applications in a random order?

 

[Jacob Miller]

If a firm is non-rolling. Do they read the applications in a random order?

It will depend on the firm's individual practices. They might read in random order, alphabetical order, or some form of algorithmic order. @Jessica Booker will probably be best placed to advise here.

 

[J Wu]

If a firm is non-rolling. Do they read the applications in a random order?

Idk the specific answer to whether some firms read them in a random order but some non-rolling firms read applications as they come in to manage volume but only send out AC invites after the deadline

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

It will depend on the firm's individual practices. They might read in random order, alphabetical order, or some form of algorithmic order. @Jessica Booker will probably be best placed to advise here.

Lots of different ways this is done. Alphabetical is possible but isn’t a very good way of doing it (tends to favour different nationalities).

They may rank it on something like test scores (if they have used that).

Could just be completely random.

They still may review by when you applied, but just review after applications are received.

 

[Lawgirl123]

Hi guys /. @Jaysen - is there a course on TCLA that goes through law firm practice areas? Could have sworn I saw one but can't find it now!

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi guys /. @Jaysen - is there a course on TCLA that goes through law firm practice areas? Could have sworn I saw one but can't find it now!

Keep an eye out for my next Monday Article which will cover this in some depth!

 

[cmaj]

Hi all!!!! Just had a weird experience with the WGCTA. I've done quite a lot of these for other firms and passed them this season, and scored highly on the practices I've done. I just completed the test for CMS and when I came to the evaluating arguments section (which is usually my highest scoring area in the practices), it seemed like 10/12 arguments were 'Argument Strong'. Could this ever be the case? I had 10 minutes left to complete the test and found myself using most of that time trying to desperately find reasons why the arguments were weak so that I could change them and equalise my responses!

Does anyone have any understanding on this, and whether the tests would typically be structured to have a balanced amount of answers in each section? Also, are the test questions randomised for each person? I feel a little confused about it...

Thanks in advance

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Hi all!!!! Just had a weird experience with the WGCTA. I've done quite a lot of these for other firms and passed them this season, and scored highly on the practices I've done. I just completed the test for CMS and when I came to the evaluating arguments section (which is usually my highest scoring area in the practices), it seemed like 10/12 arguments were 'Argument Strong'. Could this ever be the case? I had 10 minutes left to complete the test and found myself using most of that time trying to desperately find reasons why the arguments were weak so that I could change them and equalise my responses!

Does anyone have any understanding on this, and whether the tests would typically be structured to have a balanced amount of answers in each section? Also, are the test questions randomised for each person? I feel a little confused about it...

Thanks in advance

it’s not impossible if it’s a random sample from a question bank.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

If anyone is struggling getting on to TLT’s graduate recruitment website ahead of the deadline tomorrow, just go to their vacancies page instead:

http://jobsearch.tltsolicitors.com/jobs/search

You can search by training contract or vacation scheme in the filter system

 

[TChopeful2021]

Hi guys. I’m thinking about taking a break from all applications so I can focus on my grades. The applications are very time consuming and have taken a serious toll on my mental health; I don't want to risk it also affecting my academic performance. Instead, I hope to take a gap year and focus on applications once I graduate.

Even though I am really struggling to simultaneously look for employment whilst maintaining good grades, most people I've met either secured their TC during uni or whilst working. I don't know if taking this process very slowly and step-by-step could be frowned upon in any way and been seen as lacking proactiveness? Has anyone taken this approach or is there anything I should take into consideration? Thank you.

 

[M1999]

Hi guys. I’m thinking about taking a break from all applications so I can focus on my grades. The applications are very time consuming and have taken a serious toll on my mental health; I don't want to risk it also affecting my academic performance. Instead, I hope to take a gap year and focus on applications once I graduate.

Even though I am really struggling to simultaneously look for employment whilst maintaining good grades, most people I've met either secured their TC during uni or whilst working. I don't know if taking this process very slowly and step-by-step could be frowned upon in any way and been seen as lacking proactiveness? Has anyone taken this approach or is there anything I should take into consideration? Thank you.

The worst thing to do in this process is compare yourself to others. Some people are just luckier in this process than others, it doesn't mean you don't work hard or they work a lot harder than you, they just managed to secure a TC at a shorter time frame than you. It may be a positive thing, not everyone will enjoy coming out of school & university and straight into a graduate role. I am for one glad I am going to have at least one year in a professional working environment before I start a TC (whenever that will be!). It may seem like everyone you know has a TC but theres a lot more people who are graduates and there is simply nothing wrong with that.

 

[Naomi U]

Hi guys. I’m thinking about taking a break from all applications so I can focus on my grades. The applications are very time consuming and have taken a serious toll on my mental health; I don't want to risk it also affecting my academic performance. Instead, I hope to take a gap year and focus on applications once I graduate.

Even though I am really struggling to simultaneously look for employment whilst maintaining good grades, most people I've met either secured their TC during uni or whilst working. I don't know if taking this process very slowly and step-by-step could be frowned upon in any way and been seen as lacking proactiveness? Has anyone taken this approach or is there anything I should take into consideration? Thank you.

Hi @LilLauLLB

I completely understand how you feel. During my applications last year (my second year of uni), I definitely felt very overwhelmed and struggled significantly to balance applications with uni and of course my actual life! It definitely can get very overwhelming so I understand how you feel.

I think my advice would be to focus on you. As much as it is tempting to compare yourself to other people, this does not add any value to you. There is no perfect time. I know some people that applied in their third year, after graduation and even some that applied after law school, all who managed to secure tcs at amazing firms. So regarding the issue of time, this should be the least of worries and in no way will this reflect badly on you.

Do keep in mind that the application season will end by February for most firms, so I think it's important to remember that this feeling will not last forever. I remember how overwhelmed and anxious I was and then it just becomes a distant memory.

However, if you do feel like you need to stop then stop. At the end of the day, you'll need your grades to begin your training contract and more importantly, your mental health and happiness should always be the priority. You will be in a better place to apply if you feel more in control of your life. If you feel like this will be post graduation then so be it!

Ultimately you will be the best judge of your feelings but there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking a break.

Hope this helps & best of luck with everything!

 

[Jen E C]

Hi guys. I’m thinking about taking a break from all applications so I can focus on my grades. The applications are very time consuming and have taken a serious toll on my mental health; I don't want to risk it also affecting my academic performance. Instead, I hope to take a gap year and focus on applications once I graduate.

Even though I am really struggling to simultaneously look for employment whilst maintaining good grades, most people I've met either secured their TC during uni or whilst working. I don't know if taking this process very slowly and step-by-step could be frowned upon in any way and been seen as lacking proactiveness? Has anyone taken this approach or is there anything I should take into consideration? Thank you.

I did the exact thing you are considering and got a TC if that's of any comfort to you! I didn't apply for anything until my final year of uni, but then stopped once I realised my grades weren't as good as I knew they could be, even though they were objectively fine. From my perspective, I wanted to leave uni with grades I was happy with, considering the amount of money and time spent. I made this decision after having an AC four days before an exam, and the difficulty between splitting preparation for both and not being satisfied with either result wasn't worth it for me (I didn't get the vac and my mental space was so bad in the exam as a result, so I didn't get the grade I knew I was capable of and had frankly worked all semester for).

I spent the year after graduating doing a part time job and spent the rest of the time in the library focusing on apps. I'm grateful I was able to stay at home and not have anything be a worry beyond personal spending, which isn't strictly a necessity. Ironically, even though I had more time, I ended up submitting fewer apps. However, of 5 apps, I got 2 vacs and 1 TC offer.

In 3 of the interviews I did, my approach was never questioned. When asked 'tell me about yourself', I would briefly explain at the end my strategy, just to bring them up to speed. I explained I wanted the part time job for the flexibility and to let me fully commit to apps and open days/events etc this cycle. If anything, the interviewers seem to completely understand and I never felt judged. Definitely in the case of one interviewer, he seemed to agree with my thinking and I think it demonstrated my commitment to commercial law even more.

Do what's right for you - there's no right formula and in this day and age, people are more aware/understanding than ever that there are a million different routes someone might take before ending up in a firm.