TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Jessica Booker]

Its a FTC role

It will be fine to include it then - sometime you have to tread carefully if you are trying to apply for another job when you haven’t even started the one you have got.

I’d keep it brief - you haven’t started working there yet and so you can’t really talk about your experiences with the firm beyond the recruitment process. Something as brief as that you are looking forward to joining the firm in August as a Paralegal is likely to be sufficient. You may want to make it clear it is a FTC role though.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Out of curiosity has anyone applied for and got a vac scheme whilst being employed at another firm? how did your employer handle it? as there could be conflicts and clauses in employment contracts that could restrict being able to do so

I know there are plenty of people who have done this in the forums - it’s come up in conversation many times.

The main thing is 1) check your terms and conditions of employment and 2) check whether you can take the time off first. You’ll need to disclose your reasoning for having time off and your current firm will make a decision to decline/approve it from there.

If they do approve it, conflict checks are likely to need to be done with both your current employer and your VS firm.

 

[unserious candidate]

hey @Jessica Booker can I do my vac schemes if i have already accepted a training contract offer? I would really value the experience as i have never done a vac scheme or any legal work for that matter. i can’t find anything in any of my contracts that says i can’t. also must i disclose this to both my vs and tc firms?

 

[Jessica Booker]

hey @Jessica Booker can I do my vac schemes if i have already accepted a training contract offer? I would really value the experience as i have never done a vac scheme or any legal work for that matter. i can’t find anything in any of my contracts that says i can’t. also must i disclose this to both my vs and tc firms?

If there is nothing in either contract, then there is nothing stopping you from doing this. You may need to disclose the other firm's opportunity as part of conflict checks outside of any contractual terms. However, it will depend on what the firm asks from you as part of that conflicts check too.

 

[YP]

Hey, hope everyone is well. Has anyone else still not heard back from Mishcon app stage for VS?

Hi, no news yet from Mishcon post-VI...

 

[ArashSh]

Hi, no news yet from Mishcon post-VI...

Hi,
I got a Mishcon case study invite today so they're still reviewing and sending out invites for sure. Hope you hear a good one soon. Did my VI four weeks ago.

 

[FutureLawyer99]

Has anyone done the final stage interview for a TC with Hill Dickinson before? If so, what sort of questions can I expect? Is it a mixture of competency, motivational or situational judgment?

 

[NMA]

Hi all, not sure where to put this question so sorry if it shouldn't be here, but what do men typically wear on a vacation scheme? Do I have to wear a suit and tie everyday or can I come in a bit more smart-casual e.g., quarter-zips or a jumper over my shirt without a tie?

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Hi all, not sure where to put this question so sorry if it shouldn't be here, but what do men typically wear on a vacation scheme? Do I have to wear a suit and tie everyday or can I come in a bit more smart-casual e.g., quarter-zips or a jumper over my shirt without a tie?

I don't think most law firms have the suit policy anymore.

I have been a paralegal at 3 different law firms and none of them have I seen lawyers wear suits but I guess it can be different for your VS firm.

Travers Smith is the prime example of not wearing a suit. Everyone ast Travers wears shirts just with no tie.

I recently attended a networking event at Weil in their London office and their legal counsel did not wear a suit and he was going back to the office after that networking event.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi all, not sure where to put this question so sorry if it shouldn't be here, but what do men typically wear on a vacation scheme? Do I have to wear a suit and tie everyday or can I come in a bit more smart-casual e.g., quarter-zips or a jumper over my shirt without a tie?

My advice would be to go more formal on your first day and gauge how informal it is from there.

You can always take a tie and a jacket off to look more informal, but it is much more difficult to "dress up" if you have got a client meeting you are invited to last-minute that requires a suit and tie if you don't have them to hand.

If you are connected with any current trainees on LinkedIn, it would be a good question to ask them about what to expect, as firms can have very different views on this topic and sometimes it is just good to get direct insight from people who are experiencing it on a day-to-day basis.

 

[LongSufferingLawGrad]

hey @Jessica Booker can I do my vac schemes if i have already accepted a training contract offer? I would really value the experience as i have never done a vac scheme or any legal work for that matter. i can’t find anything in any of my contracts that says i can’t. also must i disclose this to both my vs and tc firms?

Hey - just wanted to offer my thoughts on this. Congrats on securing a TC!

I would simply say that even if you are contractually permitted to complete a VS, or multiple schemes, after signing a TC, I would think twice before doing so. Securing a VS is a remarkable achievement, however, many deeply diligent, intelligent and qualified candidates are unable to do so because of the very, very fierce competition. Clearly, many people are desperate to break into a firm via a VS.

I would consider politely declining a VS when holding a TC, to allow another deserving person a chance to enter the profession, as I, and am sure others on this forum have done. Hope all goes well!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey - just wanted to offer my thoughts on this. Congrats on securing a TC!

I would simply say that even if you are contractually permitted to complete a VS, or multiple schemes, after signing a TC, I would think twice before doing so. Securing a VS is a remarkable achievement, however, many deeply diligent, intelligent and qualified candidates are unable to do so because of the very, very fierce competition. Clearly, many people are desperate to break into a firm via a VS.

I would consider politely declining a VS when holding a TC, to allow another deserving person a chance to enter the profession, as I, and am sure others on this forum have done. Hope all goes well!

Normally I would also echo this point. However, on this occasion the individual has not gained any legal work experience/vacation schemes, and so the vacation scheme might help them. They could easily work out the career or the TC firm isn’t for them from their VS experience. However, I get that it is still contentious and you could still argue whether it is fair to take a vacation scheme from someone else if there is little to no chance of you looking to secure a TC with the firm. I’d argue that many people do that with VS anyway though and look at them as a way to develop their CV rather than a conversion opportunity.

 

[hassanali]

Hey - just wanted to offer my thoughts on this. Congrats on securing a TC!

I would simply say that even if you are contractually permitted to complete a VS, or multiple schemes, after signing a TC, I would think twice before doing so. Securing a VS is a remarkable achievement, however, many deeply diligent, intelligent and qualified candidates are unable to do so because of the very, very fierce competition. Clearly, many people are desperate to break into a firm via a VS.

I would consider politely declining a VS when holding a TC, to allow another deserving person a chance to enter the profession, as I, and am sure others on this forum have done. Hope all goes well!

100% agreed and not just this, The Law Society also as a matter of good practice strongly states that once a TC has been accepted the candidates should withdraw from the other processes.

 

[John Travoni]

Hi @Jessica Booker @George Maxwell, I’m preparing for an interview and was wondering if you could provide any assistance whatsoever.
The question is: How can a law firm prepare for the application of space law in the “real world”?

Thank you x

 

[Jessica Booker]

100% agreed and not just this, The Law Society also as a matter of good practice strongly states that once a TC has been accepted the candidates should withdraw from the other processes.

I must stress this is a voluntary code - there are no implications for not sticking to it (many firms don’t stick to their obligations within the code).

 

[ashleigh22]

While I was at a VS, a few members of the firm I met (inc. the Head of Office) asked if I have other VS lined up in the summer.. I wonder if this is a trick question and should I be honest about having other VS or just give a vague answer that I have applied to a few but havent heard back?

 

[Abii]

While I was at a VS, a few members of the firm I met (inc. the Head of Office) asked if I have other VS lined up in the summer.. I wonder if this is a trick question and should I be honest about having other VS or just give a vague answer that I have applied to a few but havent heard back?

I'd be honest, it shows your integrity and it is not at all unusual for people to undertake multiple vacation schemes. I can't see how this would be a trick question at all.

 

[Jessica Booker]

While I was at a VS, a few members of the firm I met (inc. the Head of Office) asked if I have other VS lined up in the summer.. I wonder if this is a trick question and should I be honest about having other VS or just give a vague answer that I have applied to a few but havent heard back?

It isn’t a trick question. They are just genuinely interested in finding out who else you are applying to and how this may weigh up against how interested you are in them.

 

[George Maxwell]

Hi all, not sure where to put this question so sorry if it shouldn't be here, but what do men typically wear on a vacation scheme? Do I have to wear a suit and tie everyday or can I come in a bit more smart-casual e.g., quarter-zips or a jumper over my shirt without a tie?

Hey @NMA,

If I were you, I would follow Jess's excellent advice here. Always better to be smarter than you need to be. Dressing down is always possible. Personally when I went in for my schemes I wore a suit. I did bring a tie with me but never used it (except for my interview but even then I don't think it was probably necessary). Black shoes too.

I think Jess's idea about asking current trainees what their thoughts are is a good one too. Perhaps consider asking your buddy when you meet them on the scheme.

Hope that helps!

Hi @Jessica Booker @George Maxwell, I’m preparing for an interview and was wondering if you could provide any assistance whatsoever.
The question is: How can a law firm prepare for the application of space law in the “real world”?

Thank you x

Hey @John Abram,

This is a really tough one.

Off the top of my head, I don't think I can add much value here. However, I have found the following which might be useful:

• Chamber's Associate
• Law360
• LegalCareerPath
• Hogan Lovells
• Bird&Bird
• Space.com

I will also ask the wider TCLA team to see if they have any ideas on this too.

I hope this helps!

While I was at a VS, a few members of the firm I met (inc. the Head of Office) asked if I have other VS lined up in the summer.. I wonder if this is a trick question and should I be honest about having other VS or just give a vague answer that I have applied to a few but havent heard back?

Hey @ashleigh22,

To echo what people have already said about this, I would be honest about this. When I participated in HSF and Akin Gump's vacation scheme, for example, I was honest that I had received an offer from W&C. It was not a trick question and I was still offered the training contract, so I wouldn't worry about this hurting your chances.

You should be ready to prepare for questions such as: "Who do you think you will pick if you were offered a TC at both firms?", "Why haven't you accepted your offer yet?" and if they are very different firms, "Why are you completing a vacation scheme here if you already have an offer from X? They are very different from us etc.".

Very happy to answer any follow-ups you might have on this Ashleigh!

 

[lp998]

Hi all! Has anyone who got onto the Hugh James vac scheme received dates yet? I still haven't heard when mine will be taking place 😬