TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[BolderBlackPrincess]

There is no reason for you to mention that you haven’t worked post-grad when they ask you “why law” or “tell me about yourself” imo. Infact, CV Blind interviews will work in your favour especially if you have gaps. Although yes, no activity post-grad for a year will probably be frowned upon hence why I suggested open days and virtual events during the milkround. I think firms are very much aware that the process is competitive and finding a job right after uni is not possible for everyone. Baring in mind for instance international students may not have access to jobs like we do, those that move back to remote (country/village) areas after uni, or personal circumstances like disability etc. Some people will also have their own entrepreneurial pursuits or extra curriculars after uni which could count towards work experience.

Yes, but most of those are the same as spending the whole time doing nothing but making applications. Also if they ask 'tell me about yourself' and its February, and you finished with 'i graduated 8 months ago' there will certainly be warning sirens in the mind of the interviewer as to what you've been doing, and they will likely ask you what you've done since then or ask for a more recent example to a question. Even doing something like working in a pub 'building my interpersonal skills' etc. would be expected if nothing else. Open days and virtual events, whilst demonstrating an interest in the law, don't really show the same pro-activeness that someone doing the same whilst working part time/full time would show.

At the end of the day, you could do nothing but apply and maybe do some virtual presentations if you really want- but top law firms get thousands of applications, and you will be disadvantaged if you aren't showing at least some effort beyond the bare minimum.

 

[SaLM]

I've heard back - PFO post AC. Have you heard back yet?

Sorry to hear that ! - I was offered a place on the 8th so am asking grad rec q's to help people who are still in limbo

 

[Winter]

Yes, but most of those are the same as spending the whole time doing nothing but making applications. Also if they ask 'tell me about yourself' and its February, and you finished with 'i graduated 8 months ago' there will certainly be warning sirens in the mind of the interviewer as to what you've been doing, and they will likely ask you what you've done since then or ask for a more recent example to a question. Even doing something like working in a pub 'building my interpersonal skills' etc. would be expected if nothing else. Open days and virtual events, whilst demonstrating an interest in the law, don't really show the same pro-activeness that someone doing the same whilst working part time/full time would show.

At the end of the day, you could do nothing but apply and maybe do some virtual presentations if you really want- but top law firms get thousands of applications, and you will be disadvantaged if you aren't showing at least some effort beyond the bare minimum.

I think we will agree to disagree imo. You have too many assumptions and variables in your argument. I have never said “I graduated X months ago” in an interview, saying “I graduated from X university with 1st/2:1” will suffice. You’re also assuming that the person cannot draw on several other work experience that isn’t recent, I personally don’t state the specific dates of work experiences. I just state the role, action, result as per the STAR method. Plus grad recruitment emphasise that open days and virtual events are definitely a great indicator of proactiveness because it shows direct interest whereas other work experience is based on transferable skills.

 

[BolderBlackPrincess]

I think we will agree to disagree imo. You have too many assumptions and variables in your argument. I have never said “I graduated X months ago” in an interview, saying “I graduated from X university with 1st/2:1” will suffice. You’re also assuming that the person cannot draw on several other work experience that isn’t recent, I personally don’t state the specific dates of work experiences. I just state the role, action, result as per the STAR method. Plus grad recruitment emphasise that open days and virtual events are definitely a great indicator of proactiveness because it shows direct interest whereas other work experience is based on transferable skills.

I think you're underestimating the competivenss of the cycles based on perhaps your success which I'd argue is an exception

 

[maeeeeea]

Sorry to hear that ! - I was offered a place on the 8th so am asking grad rec q's to help people who are still in limbo

Did you hear back 7business days post AC? It was 7business day today since my AC but my application hasn’t changed and had no emails :/

 

[Winter]

I think you're underestimating the competivenss of the cycles based on perhaps your success which I'd argue is an exception

Not at all, I most definitely understand the competitiveness but having gaps in work experience really doesnt indicate incompetence or lack of skill. I’m basing it off what I’ve seen and have been advised from grad rec at events I’ve been to. You can sell yourself remarkably either way.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

They are with HSF and Cleary and I am really struggling to choose because I really enjoyed both ACs and am really interested in the work they do. I guess the sensible thing to do is to accept HSF given their conversion rate but it feels horrible to turn down a firm I really like especially if it means they would never hire me in the future.

It doesn’t mean they would never hire you - it will all be forgotten about by the time you qualified. It is more the challenge if you apply to them in search for a TC after you turned them down for a VS - that’s the only time it gets tricky.

 

[Untilwinter]

Yes, but most of those are the same as spending the whole time doing nothing but making applications. Also if they ask 'tell me about yourself' and its February, and you finished with 'i graduated 8 months ago' there will certainly be warning sirens in the mind of the interviewer as to what you've been doing, and they will likely ask you what you've done since then or ask for a more recent example to a question. Even doing something like working in a pub 'building my interpersonal skills' etc. would be expected if nothing else. Open days and virtual events, whilst demonstrating an interest in the law, don't really show the same pro-activeness that someone doing the same whilst working part time/full time would show.

At the end of the day, you could do nothing but apply and maybe do some virtual presentations if you really want- but top law firms get thousands of applications, and you will be disadvantaged if you aren't showing at least some effort beyond the bare minimum.

I have personally done this in the past when I graduated and it was fine as long as you had some work experiences to back up your application. They know tc application is almost a full time job and that youd be doing a lot of things along side, not just writing application (extra curriculars, open days, part time job and so on).
Plus its extremely difficult to get a city job nowadays upon graduation, so few months gap is not seen as a warning. Though, i think if you are still unemployed the next cycle (so Septemeber), its going to come across as a lack of proactiveness.

Its a competitve process and being ambitious and proactive is valued, but no firm wants a burned out trainee. Everyone needs to find their balance

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Freshfields VS ! Crying. Over the moon. Love you TCLA , specially @Jessica Booker for overall guidance and @Jaysen for the successful mock interview !

Amazing news! Congratulations!!!

Posts like this make my day ❤️

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Ok thank you! Sorry one more q- Do you think it matters if I call or email?

You’ll most likely get a quicker response if you call, so it depends how long you are willing to wait for an answer.

I would call first and if you don’t get to speak to someone, then email.

 

[mfuturetrainee]

do people know when v&e reach out after vi?

 

[BolderBlackPrincess]

Not at all, I most definitely understand the competitiveness but having gaps in work experience really doesnt indicate incompetence or lack of skill. I’m basing it off what I’ve seen and have been advised from grad rec at events I’ve been to. You can sell yourself remarkably either way.

Again, exception not rule. I didn't say it demonstrates incompetence or lack of skill, I'm saying the pro-activeness to do even a small part-time job is going to be significantly more favourable to your chances than doing nothing but doing applications. The OP asked for advice, the best advice is to do more than just do applications and sign up to a few virtual presentations. That is a fact.

 

[BolderBlackPrincess]

I have personally done this in the past when I graduated and it was fine as long as you had some work experiences to back up your application. They know tc application is almost a full time job and that youd be doing a lot of things along side, not just writing application (extra curriculars, open days, part time job and so on).
Plus its extremely difficult to get a city job nowadays upon graduation, so few months gap is not seen as a warning. Though, i think if you are still unemployed the next cycle (so Septemeber), its going to come across as a lack of proactiveness.

Its a competitve process and being ambitious and proactive is valued, but no firm wants a burned out trainee. Everyone needs to find their balance

A pub is a part-time job.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

This is incorrect actually. They will never ask why you have a gap. Once you pass the app stage, your work experience is irrelevant until they ask you competency questions during the interview e.g. tell me when you worked in a team and then you can draw on one of your work experience or even at university. They will never ask at interview stage especially when they know you just recently graduated, as to why you have a “gap”. What you can do to bridge that gap though after graduation is attending open days and virtual events to put in the work experience section. A lot of firms value this proactive approach to attending legal-specific events, especially when you’re doing master classes or workshops at such firms.

There is some truth to this in some instances, so I don’t think you can say it’s “incorrect”. Like most aspects of recruitment it’s completely subjective and down to personal preferences.

However, I have seen negative outcomes when a candidate has said at interview that they are not working full time to focus on applications off the back of a “what are you doing now” / “what have you been up to since you graduated question” because for many firms with more intense hours, they will wonder whether you are up to the pressure of working if you can’t work and still dedicate some time to application/recruitment processes. I don’t think this is the case for every candidate with every firm, but I have seen it enough to know it is a possibility.

 

[impostersyndrome]

Anyone who did the Goodwin interview when can we expect to hear back? Assume it's a call if successful, email if not. I can't bear to see another 'Candid - your application' email and need to mentally prepare

Is this for the vacation scheme or TC?

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

I think it’s very much firm dependent. I did have a friend who applied earlier this cycle who took time off to work on apps after not getting a paralegal job and they got queried about this in an interview.

Of course you can attend open days/do virtual experiences etc and those proactive responses will be viewed positively, but I also think some firms wouldn’t take too well to seeing you taking the application season as effectively a full-time job when others are managing other priorities.

I imagine @Jessica Booker may be more informed to offer advice on this as may be misinterpreting, but just basing it off a friend in a similar predicament

It is not only firm dependent, but candidate dependent too. A gap of a month or so is probably ignored, but a gap of three or more months is more likely to gain attention (if it’s available information in the process), especially if you have less evidence of work experience on your application.

I personally wouldn’t recommend going full-time on recruitment processes because it’s not proactive evidence of you developing your skills nor keeping yourself busy. Most candidates will need to show evidence of an ability to multi task and juggle multiple commitments and focusing purely on applying/recruitment processes does not demonstrate this.

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

I think that’s exactly it — some firms will care and others will care less.

If you do have a gap, I would just be prepared with a reasonable explanation to say why that’s the case (which is more than just you were focused on applications).

Exactly this!!

 

[Winter]

There is some truth to this in some instances, so I don’t think you can say it’s “incorrect”. Like most aspects of recruitment it’s completely subjective and down to personal preferences.

However, I have seen negative outcomes when a candidate has said at interview that they are not working full time to focus on applications of the back of a “what are you doing now” / “what have you been up to since you graduated question” because for many firms with more intense hours, they will wonder whether you are up to the pressure of working if you can’t work and still dedicate some time to application/recruitment processes. I don’t think this is the case for every candidate with every firm, but I have seen it enough to know it is a possibility.

Yeahh that's fair, probably wrong wording but yeah it is definitely firm-dependent like you said!!

 

[TCLA Community Assistant]

Any advice on reaching out to Milbank 3.5 weeks after AC with no contact, despite being told 3 weeks was the absolute absolute maximum they would wait before giving responses. Do you know if Milbank has a track record of leaving in limbo (saying limbo, I know offers already out but would like confirmation of rejection)

Wait until the end of this week or even Monday and ask if there is an update on timescales (rather than an outcome).

Firms can have all the best intentions of having a certain timeframe to go back to candidates by and then something comes along and slows it down. All it takes is for someone to leave, be off sick, major issue or project needing to be prioritised and these things can go down the priority order (unfortunately).

I don’t know about their track record though, so can’t comment on that unfortunately.

 

[bella98]

Honestly, I would strongly advise against this strategy.

I know how time consuming the process is and the amount of time you want to dedicate to it, but the issue will be having a huge gap on your CV. If you get to AC interviews and they see you’re not currently employed after leaving uni, they may question that. If you say you’re spending the year solely focused on applications, I think they’d regard that as a poor use of time management/ability to balance various responsibilities when there will be plenty of others coping with applications, jobs, uni etc.

I also think you’d be incredibly bored and lose motivation. I think spending 4/5 months solid writing applications would be a drag. I think any form of employment/voluntary work is a better option

Have just seen @futuretrainee2023’s comment though and do feel it could probably work with winter schemes. Any grad jobs are competitive these days and if you say you’re actively looking but are also balancing apps, I reckon that’s fine. If you had an AC in March/April though and hadn’t been doing anything bar applications for 8 months, I’m less sure!

I appreciate your perspective and the reasoning behind it, and while I see the value in gaining work experience to fill gaps in a CV, I think that taking any job, regardless of its relevance to your career aspirations is not necessarily the best course of action.
I would say that if you're not constrained by immediate financial pressures, dedicating time and energy exclusively to applying for legal-related opportunities or even exclusively training contracts after graduation could indeed be a more strategic approach. Because if you work, say, as a sales assistant just to fill the gap in your CV after graduation, you are then exhausted after work and not able to dedicate the appropriate time to secure your dream job - I know many unfortunately don't have a choice and balance those responsibilities very well, but I'm talking for those who have.
But that's just my opinion!