TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[futuretrainee2024]

Do application questions change every year? I want to start writing them from now for next year.

I would almost dissuade you from doing this. I did this last year and it really was not effective because I've attended loads more events and gained more experience so my motivations and interests have definitely changed

 

[yeezyee]

how do people wait post AC?? 😭😭 I feel like the AC make u so emotionally invested that the wait is kiLLING me

 

[Erspencer]

I have low A level grades and PH website says they look for majority As in A levels. Will it make sense to apply?

I can’t answer to PH but I applied to Taylor wessing this year with ABB and there minimum grade requirements was AAB and I made it pass application stage. As they encouraged people to apply if they could demonstrate other strengths and had other strong academic results- So I think whilst it is a factor it’s not the only factor. But I also agree to what someone else that the focus should be on why the firm, like are you applying for applying sake or can you demonstrate a really strong application for them to overlook your grades!
At the end of the day if you can clearly show why you’d be the perfect candidate then do not let your A level grades hold you back!!

 

[Dakuai]

I have an AC for Macfarlanes coming soon, any advice would be much appreciated! Particularly, will the case study be a presentation or an oral Q&A case study? Is the partner interview going to be both motivational + competency?

Thank you!

 

[Ghassen]

Has anyone who’s done a vac scheme while in full time employment (through booking off the time as holiday) ever experienced complications? A law firm I have an offer with has requested that I send written approval from my current employer to show I have permission to take on the work experience.

While I have the leave already approved, I don’t really feel comfortable telling my employer it will be for legal work experience, as that would basically indicating I’m thinking of quitting way before I was planning to give notice (if I’m successful in getting a TC).

@Jessica Booker is this standard practice with most law firms? I definitely know of people who’ve done vac schemes while in employment who didn’t have to give explicit approval from their employer

I was in the same position last year, and the Law Firm never asked about this kind of permissions, as I would feel the same as you (I don't feel comfortable to disclose this to my current employer). Also, I have an upcoming VS, and I don't think they will ask me to disclose my scheme to my employer. I suggest that you ask the reason behind this request (probably visa purposes), then try to convince them that you do not feel comfortable sharing this with your employer.

 

[therealslimshady]

its not to test how you'd apply your past experiences to future scenarios but more to see your thought process in the past and decision making abilities when those facts have been presented to you. also to see whether you've practiced those competencies to begin with. if a firm values collaboration but you've never worked with a team outside your university course then it doesn't display variety or demonstrate how you've previously worked with different teams.

I do not understand why law firms would assess to see whether a candidate has 'practiced' competencies. In my opinion, this does not really test anything.

What happens if a candidate cannot come up with an example to a competency question because they have never been in that situation? Would a candidate be marked down for not being able to provide an answer?

 

[therealslimshady]

All the time - meetings particularly, that being client meetings, team meetings etc. time is literally money and we’ve got schedules to keep to.

You mention time is literally money and that lawyers have schedules to keep to.

In my opinion, I would still think that a lot of time is unnecessarily wasted in meetings due to reductions in productivity. At the end of the day, lawyers are human beings and not machines so I highly doubt that a lawyer is productive all of the time.

 

[therealslimshady]

This isn't a vac scheme question so sorry for randomly putting this here, but I applied for a law-related but non-legal graduate role with a company in London and the recruiter has not been in touch? I did the online test beginning January and since then have reached out to her by email but have had nothing back lol shall I just assume they aren't going to take me forward in the application process but haven't bothered to tell me?

I can sympathise with your situation. I've attended final round interviews for law-related roles and have been ghosted in the past. Even a polite follow-up receives no response. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can really do.

 

[laby201]

Has anyone who’s done a vac scheme while in full time employment (through booking off the time as holiday) ever experienced complications? A law firm I have an offer with has requested that I send written approval from my current employer to show I have permission to take on the work experience.

While I have the time off already approved, I don’t really feel comfortable telling my employer it will be for legal work experience, as that would basically be indicating I’m thinking of quitting way before I was planning to give notice (if I’m successful in getting a TC).

@Jessica Booker is this standard practice with most law firms? I definitely know of people who’ve done vac schemes while in employment who didn’t have to give explicit approval from their employer

What does it say in your employment contract? If it mentions you not being able to have employment elsewhere without informing them, you're pretty much obligated to unless you wanted to be in breach of contract, especially if written approval is required.

I completely get the second part, but I think most employers will know that a training contract is the ultimate aim for the majority of those in the legal field (presuming you're a paralegal or similar) and should be understanding. If they're not and don't allow you to do it, I suppose you have the choice of whether to resign or to not do the vacation scheme.

It is an awkward predicament, but I think (dependent on your contract) you're in the position where you have to tell your employer. I would hope there would be zero complications though

 

[futuretrainee2024]

I do not understand why law firms would assess to see whether a candidate has 'practiced' competencies. In my opinion, this does not really test anything.

What happens if a candidate cannot come up with an example to a competency question because they have never been in that situation? Would a candidate be marked down for not being able to provide an answer?

throughout your TC, you'll be working with different teams, be thinking on your feet, will need to be proactive etc and if a candidate has never done this before then they might have a harder time adjusting. communication, public speaking etc are all skills developed over time and firms likely want candidates who have already demonstrated these in the past.

im not an authoritative source but I would say yes to your second question. if another candidate can provide examples for the competencies they are looking for whereas another cannot, then the former might be more likely to land the role (depending on whether they also have good answers for motivational, commercial questions etc). you could always give an example of a similar scenario and I reckon that's okay, just as long as you don't just give up and move onto the next question. unfortunately, firms have thousands of applicants and they want those that have the soft skills like teamwork, communication etc and if a candidate can't demonstrate that at this stage then perhaps they need to gain a bit more experience first. I'm not in grad rec and my experience is limited so I could be completely wrong but these are just my thoughts.

also apologies for the SPAG errors! answering as I cook dinner lol (late I knowww)

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you for all the helpful messages I'm receiving on the grades v extra-curriculars debate.

@axelbeugre @Jessica Booker I'm interested please to hear your thoughts on this too please? Would I be disadvantaged if I talk about my role of responsibility as something I completed in the past?

No - this won’t be a problem. It’s fairly common for people to step back from responsibilities in their final year.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Competency style questions are common in law firm interviews. What is the purpose behind them?

In a real life problem, I tend to tackle a problem based on the facts presented to me rather than think back to a time in the past I have faced a similar situation. I am sure that most lawyers will do the same in practice. In my opinion, it is unlikely that a trainee solicitor will think back to the time they worked well in a team or a time when they solved a complex problem if faced with a similar situation in practice.

Most people haven’t worked at the level of a trainee in a law firm so wouldn’t have experience to tackle a real life situation they would face as a trainee (not that you’d have one of those in an interview).

So relying on past experience from any environment could be a more consistent way of assessing people.

Some people will argue differently and will suggest using situational based questions in an interview would be a better way to assess candidates.

 

[therealslimshady]

throughout your TC, you'll be working with different teams, be thinking on your feet, will need to be proactive etc and if a candidate has never done this before then they might have a harder time adjusting. communication, public speaking etc are all skills developed over time and firms likely want candidates who have already demonstrated these in the past.

im not an authoritative source but I would say yes to your second question. if another candidate can provide examples for the competencies they are looking for whereas another cannot, then the former might be more likely to land the role (depending on whether they also have good answers for motivational, commercial questions etc). you could always give an example of a similar scenario and I reckon that's okay, just as long as you don't just give up and move onto the next question. unfortunately, firms have thousands of applicants and they want those that have the soft skills like teamwork, communication etc and if a candidate can't demonstrate that at this stage then perhaps they need to gain a bit more experience first. I'm not in grad rec and my experience is limited so I could be completely wrong but these are just my thoughts.

also apologies for the SPAG errors! answering as I cook dinner lol (late I knowww)

Thank you for your response.

Although I do not always think that having good answers for motivational and competency questions is correlated to actual performance in the job.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Has anyone who’s done a vac scheme while in full time employment (through booking off the time as holiday) ever experienced complications? A law firm I have an offer with has requested that I send written approval from my current employer to show I have permission to take on the work experience.

While I have the time off already approved, I don’t really feel comfortable telling my employer it will be for legal work experience, as that would basically be indicating I’m thinking of quitting way before I was planning to give notice (if I’m successful in getting a TC).

@Jessica Booker is this standard practice with most law firms? I definitely know of people who’ve done vac schemes while in employment who didn’t have to give explicit approval from their employer

This isn’t standard practice but it is very normal. They need to ensure there are no conflict issues and that your current employer is okay with you working their law firm.

Many people have to give explicit consent as most employment contracts would have a term in it that yours have to declare other forms of employment - this is especially seen in regulated industries or the public sector.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you for your response.

Although I do not always think that having good answers for motivational and competency questions is correlated to actual performance in the job.

Interviews (of all kinds) tend to be one of the least likely assessments to predict performance in the role! But no one has really found an alternative way of assessing people fairly that people like doing (whether it’s the candidates or the interviewers), especially assessments that don’t need a business psychologist to conduct them!

 

[Happycloud100]

Has anyone who’s done a vac scheme while in full time employment (through booking off the time as holiday) ever experienced complications? A law firm I have an offer with has requested that I send written approval from my current employer to show I have permission to take on the work experience.

While I have the time off already approved, I don’t really feel comfortable telling my employer it will be for legal work experience, as that would basically be indicating I’m thinking of quitting way before I was planning to give notice (if I’m successful in getting a TC).

@Jessica Booker is this standard practice with most law firms? I definitely know of people who’ve done vac schemes while in employment who didn’t have to give explicit approval from their employer

Hey I work at a PE firm and I had to complete a full conflicts check around deals and clients before a vac scheme at a US PE focused firm so I’d keep that in mind if you work in a regulated industry. No complications or anything but yes

 

[Happycloud100]

I do think the conflicts thing is highly unlikely and unusual as a practice for vac schemes though but it is important to keep in mind if you work in an adjacent area

 

[Jessica Booker]

I do think the conflicts thing is highly unlikely and unusual as a practice for vac schemes though but it is important to keep in mind if you work in an adjacent area

I can count how many people it’s stopped from attending the vacation scheme on one hand - I’d say there’s probably 4-5 times that amount where the vac scheme law firm have had to think carefully about which department to allocate the student to.

However, a fair number of the firms I previously worked for only took students (rather than graduates) on their schemes, which may mean this is more common than I have experienced.

 

[therealslimshady]

In the past, I have done a vacation scheme with an international law firm where I had the opportunity to sit within two departments. In one department, I developed an excellent rapport with my supervisor and received glowing feedback in my work. In another department, I had a good start with my supervisor. However, when I was asked which university I had attended to complete my law conversion course and professional legal studies (both non-Russell group universities), I was given a cold shoulder. Any subsequent emails with this supervisor received no response and I received no feedback on my work.

When HR offered feedback after my rejection, they lied to my face and made soo many things up. When I challenged any points that I disagreed with, the response from HR was that they could not comment as they were not present and that the decision is final. Has anyone experienced this?

 

[MrHubertLouis]

Do you still need help with this? If so, please feel free to PM me with your name/email address and I can ask the team to contact you.

Thank you, Jessica. I’ve managed to resolve this now.