late 30s - too old to be a trainee?

hello everyone - hope everyone is having a good week

first post here, so go easy :)

really interested in all your thoughts

I’m a late 30s career changer, having previous done some previous roles in legal departments in technology/communications firms.
got a first for my LLB, and doing the LPC LLM at University of Law, which I’m loving (and getting good grades for!).
despite my good academics, and experience, finding it really hard with TC and VS applications.

applied to a lot of big and medium firms (Norton Rose Fulbright, Taylor Wessing, Fladgate, Bird & Bird) who do some of the technology/media/communications areas I’m interested in.

been rejected from all of them, not even a first stage interview.
3rd year of applying for TC/VSs, although this is the first year I’ve had support from the the Uni of Law careers team.

I’m starting to wonder… as someone nearer 40 than 30, am I aiming too high, and getting rejected?
is ageism a thing, even though firms say they are "diverse"?
wondering if perhaps I should focus on other firms, or reorientate my approach?

really interested in any of your thoughts - good and bad!

thanks all :)
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Bristows Interview (Success story)

Hi everyone!

I have secured a training contract at Bristows (2023 start) and wanted to share my story and interview questions, in the hope that it helps future applicants!

My application story:
- I applied originally in 2020, passed the video interview, did one interview with a partner and senior associate + GDPR written exercise, progressed to the final interview with two partners + [redacted] written exercise. Ultimately rejected with very positive feedback.
- Reapplied in 2021 (through regular application form), did the video interview, after not hearing back for ages I emailed HR and got fast-tracked to the final round of partner interviews (due to previous application) + [redacted] written exercise. I was then rejected at first, but *miraculously* received a call 3 weeks later offering me the TC (someone had dropped out).

So in total, I did 2 video interviews (2020 & 2021) and 3 Teams interviews (2 in 2020, and 1 in 2021), and 3 written exercises (2 in 2020, 1 in 2021).
I don't remember all the questions from all of these, but here's what I wrote down/ remember.

Video Interview 2020
3 questions, 60 secs to answer each.
- Consider your motivations
- Have a very good understanding of the firm
- Practise competency questions

Video Interview 2021
3 questions, 15 secs prep time, 60 secs to respond to Q1 and Q2 / 90 secs for Q3.
- See above

Interview 1 (July 2020)
Partner and Senior Associate, 60 minutes, Teams

  • Tell me why you came to study law in London at X University?
  • Why do you want to be a lawyer?
  • Why do you want to be a solicitor and not a barrister?
  • Why do you want to work for Bristows?
  • How do you manage conflict/ when you disagree with someone?
  • If you're at a Barbeque what would you say to a friend that makes Bristows different from its competitors? Anything distinguishing about its culture?
  • Explain to your great grandmother who knows nothing about the internet, what the internet is. Use an analogy.
  • You have unlimited resources for 24 hours, where would go/ what would you do?
  • If opposing counsel left a confidential document in the bin after a meeting and you saw this, what do you do?
  • If a team member told you to read something over for typos and email it to a client, and you find some non-minor content errors in it, what do you do? (team member has already left the office, not reachable by phone, there's no one else in the office)
  • Do you think big tech should play a bigger role in the policing of online content?
  • Tell me about a recent development in IT law / data protection law
  • Tell me about a recent development in AI regulation
  • You're a professor at a University with a promising cancer research project which has already shown some result. Your Uni will no longer give you money. How do you get funding
Interview 2 (August 2020)
2 partners, 60 minutes, Teams
  • Why did you choose X degree at X University?
  • Why law?
  • Why Bristows?
  • What skills will you need to be a good solicitor?
  • What is Data Protection?
  • discussion of the [redacted] problem exercise
  • If you couldn't become a lawyer what would you do?
Interview 3 (March 2021)
2 partners, 60 minutes, Teams
This was a more informal and free-flowing conversation, they didn't really repeat any questions they had asked me in previous interviews.
  • Introduce yourself
  • Tell us about X module you studied at University
  • Explain your research essay from X module
  • Tell us about your current job
  • What will you do until you start your LPC/TC (gap year between University and LPC start)
  • I was shown a picture with two very similar bottles of shampoo. One is by Herbal Essences, and the other is a dupe from Boots (they had a similar shape, colour palette, similar logo and names). The client (Herbal Essence) comes to you, furious over the dupe's existence. What is your reaction, how do you respond/advise the client? What steps would you take? Why might taking it to court not be advisable? (hint: since Herbal Essence relies on a good working relationship with Boots to sell their products - suing them is probably not the best option, try to find an amicable solution instead).
  • Summarise the govt's response to the Pandemic in 3 minutes.
  • What would your top 3 seats be at Bristows?
  • What do you do in your leisure time?

Written Exercise 1 July 2020

Read 4 articles about the GDPR, and write an email advising a client. 50 minutes.

Written Exercise 2 August 2020

Read an excerpt from [redacted], and answer ten questions (short answers). 60 minutes.

Written Exercise March 2021

Since I was fast-tracked to the final round of interviews in 2021, I do not know what written exercise was used in the first round. Also, it seemed they had created a new bespoke written exercise for me, as I had already done the GDPR and [redacted] the year before - other applicants may not get this exercise.

Read excerpts from [redacted] and an email from a colleague concerning how a client product is affected by the [redacted]. Draft a response to the colleague AND an email to the [redacted], asking to confirm your interpretation or clarify any issues.

That's it!! Good luck to anyone reading this, prepping for an interview!

Job dilemma

Hello

I am looking for some advice re my situation. I have been fortunate enough to secure a TC but due to covid this has been delayed until 2022.

I have therefore been searching for paralegal positions to fill the time, gain experience within a legal environment, and of course for financial reasons. A whole year without a job was just not an option I could afford.

After many applications I finally landed an interview with a firm specialising in an area I want to qualify in. I went through the interview process and did not mention I have already secured a TC.

However, it became apparent that they assume my intention is to secure a TC with them. I did not mention my secured TC as I didn’t believe I was obliged to do so because in my mind, I was simply applying for a paralegal post like others who do so when they have already secured TC’s ahead of time. The advert did not mention a future TC either.

I was asked about my future plans and my answer was something along the lines of I want to gain the experience for now within a legal environment and especially the field they specialise in, and hope eventually to qualify as a solicitor.

I have now been offered the paralegal job but cannot help thinking if what I am doing by accepting the position is somehow wrong. They are not a big firm and in making the offer (and justifying the very low starting pay!) mentioned they take on staff with a view to investing in their training to eventually qualify with them.

There is obviously no guarantee of them offering me a TC and no guarantees that I will enjoy working there. There are also others ahead of me already within the firm who will most likely be ‘next’ to be considered for a TC anyway.

I need the job but I have felt uneasy about the situation. Friends have advised this happens and I need not worry so much especially as I did not mention that I wanted to secure a TC with them. That if they have falsely assumed it because I guess for most LPC grads that’s the next logical step, it’s not down to me.

Should I tell them or does it really not matter and am I overthinking this?

Please help.

Linkedin Etiquette

Hi all,

I have secured a vacation scheme this summer that will be entirely virtual. So, I thought it might be a good idea to network on Linkedin before the scheme begins.

Is it acceptable to connect with trainees/ partners of prospective firms that I have not (virtually) met yet? I was thinking the 'personalise invite' function could be quite useful to introduce myself?

Many thanks

Scholarship Help

Hello all, I'm currently applying to a scholarship for the law conversion course (LLM) at BPP.

I was hoping to find someone who would be willing to take a look at my legal CV and written answers for the scholarship application and give me any advice as to how to improve.

I'm an international student self-funding my studies so this scholarship would be really important for me, so I want to be sure to make the best application possible :)

Want to be taught M&A by a corporate lawyer?

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ULaw or BPP for LPC?

Hi guys,

I just got an offer from BPP and ULaw. I am a self-funding international student so I am a bit more lenient towards ULaw because they have offered the International Bursary which has made the course cheaper, whereas, I don't qualify for the BPP one due to my grades. I wanted to get a better understanding of the two providers before making a choice and was hoping someone can give me some insights specifically in relation to:
  1. From previous posts, I understand that BPP weren't the best during the pandemic but have they improved now?
  2. Prior to the pandemic, how did BPP and ULaw's teaching compare?
  3. In terms of the employability teams, do they provide personalised support or just conduct webinars?
  4. Both places state that a high number of their students get employed after graduation. I realise that this statistic isn't just about TCs but I just wanted to know if you feel that the provider's employability teams have actually helped make you a stronger candidate?
  5. Why do most firms pick BPP over ULaw as their provider?
If you have any advice regarding the LPC, I would appreciate that too. Thanks in advance for all your help!
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GDL/LPC or SQE advice

Hi everyone,

I know there have been lots of similar threads already but I've been scratching my head about this decision for a while.

I'm an LLM grad with no undergrad law degree. I work full-time in a non-law job, and the type of law I want to get in to is immigration/public/family/criminal/legal aid - i.e. the types of law that you would need to self-fund your studies to work in. My two options as I see it are:
1. Begin the GDL part-time in September 2021, finish September 2023. Try to fund it so that I can do the LPC full time and finish September 2024
2. Begin part-time SQE prep course in July 2021 and take it from there.
Because I'm working full time, any study I do will need to be part-time, but with the advent of the SQE it's just insanely difficult to tell which route to go down is better for me. I've been in contact with a few firms who have said they haven't made decisions on how they will recruit in 2024 onwards. Would anyone have any advice? And in my particular situation, is doing the GDL part-time and finishing the LPC in 2024 (potentially even 2025 if I don't save enough) even viable?

Funding for Graduate Conversion Course

Hi, I am new to this platform and the world of Law.

Over the weekend I concluded that I would like to pursue a career in Law to be an advocate for the poor and marginalized , preferable Human Rights, Family & Private Law with the goal of being a Judge someday.

I have a Bsc in Psychology and a Msc in OcPsych and understand that I will need to do a conversion course GDL, LLM Intensive or MA then the BPC/ BPTC and pupillage .

I have narrowed my school options to ULAW or SouthBank.

My dilemma is that I do not have the financial means to fund the course. Can someone please advise.

Additionally I want to do a LLM in International Human Rights.

Aspiring Lawyer

Good day everyone! I am a new member here so I just wanna introduce myself first before asking your opinions, tips, and advices regarding entering a law school.

I am Lyza Mae A. Bullos, a First Year college student, an aspiring lawyer but I am taking Bachelor of Secondary Education Major in English as my pre-law course. It is really my dream to be a lawyer but, unfortunately I was not able to pass the entrance exam of Political Science course. However, this did not stop me from dreaming. After I pass the Licensure Examination for Teachers once I graduated I'll take up Bachelor of Laws. I am sharing this here because I also want to ask some tips and advices as well as your experiences for me to become mentally and physically ready as early as now. I am watching the vlogs of one the millennial lawyers in the Philippines, and the way he talks is really persuasive and catchy to the point that even I can now imagine the hardships of entering law school I still want to become one. So, kindly share something that will motivate me more to continue this passion that I really love. Thank you very much. 🥰
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NQ Recruiters / NQ Chances

Hi all,

I am new to the forum but have lurked for a fair while, it has great content.

I had a few questions, the first which is relatively simple, as a second year trainee I am considering having a look at the market for NQ positions particularly within the elite US space, Skadden, Kirkland, Simpson Thacher, Weil etc.

Are there any particular recruiters that have significant expertise in this space that I should keep and eye out for?

Secondly, having trained at a firm with a strong MM PE presence, think NQ salary around 110k, is it realistic to make the jump to elite US? For context top A-Levels and Top 5 undergrad.

Thanks in advance
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BPP/UoL Scholarships for GDL

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has any insight into how competitive scholarships for the GDL are at both UoL and BPP. For context I have both an 1.1 undergrad and LLM, volunteer with several human rights organisations and have overcome significant obstacles to get to where I am now, so I think I would make a good candidate for a scholarship. I'm applying for training contracts which could fund the GDL too, but if I don't get one or get scholarship funding I would find it very difficult to pay for the GDL. Does anyone know how competitive the scholarships are?

On a separate note, can anyone advise on looking for paralegal work while doing the GDL part time - would studying for the GDL be seen as a negative or positive by a potential paralegal employer?

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TCLA General Discussion Thread #2 (2021)

Hey everyone!

We'll be continuing the old vacation scheme thread in this thread. That thread is now locked.

Just to be clear, nothing is changing - feel free to continue all conversations, advice requests, memes here.

The only reason we're closing that thread is a) it is 999 pages long and b) we're no longer in the midst of the 2020 vacation scheme cycle. Going forward, we'll start a new discussion thread more quickly, so it's then easier to navigate for new members. I'm also looking to implement an easy tag button, so you can navigate through all of the past discussion threads.

Note, if you have questions specific to direct training contracts, please use this thread. We'll then open up a new vacation scheme thread for 2021-22 later this year.

Who is going to be the first poster in this thread?

Best!
Jaysen